How do I get to heaven? Answers to your questions on eternal life.

Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
You have energy and matter as parts of your composition.

You can choose do what you will (relatively) with your energy and matter by way of your consciousness.

Energy and matter are the same.

Consciousness directs the latter.

The brain contains consciousness, and is not consciousness itself.

If what we see in the universe (any closed system, including the body) is exchanges of energy, what role is consciousness playing? If energy cannot be created or destroyed, then what about consciousness?
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Change the brain, change the consciousness. Damage the brain, damage the consciousness. Kill the brain, kill the consciousness.

Mental development correlates with brain development, mental activity correlates with brain activity. Brain function correlates with the mind in every way we would predict from the hypothesis that the brain causes the mind. From a scientific point of view, the mind is a manifestation of the brain. In order for us to be aware the brain needs to be constantly activated, which suggests that this constant brain activity is necessary for consciousness, probably because it is consciousness.

"Consciousness is simply the real time processing of sensory input and internal communication and monitoring. Our experience of reality is demonstrably constructed by the brain. When you alter the underlying brain function, you alter that construction. People can be made to feel as if they do not control their own limbs, or that they have extra limbs, or that sound has a color, that parts of the world do not exist, that their spouse has been replaced by an imposter, or that they are one with the universe. We can do all this by poking around in the brain." -Steven Novella
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
Brain function correlates with the mind in every way we would predict from the hypothesis that the brain causes the mind
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...no knowing, even if it's 'yet'.

...given what I wrote about consciousness directing energy and matter, and the laws of physics, I can say with equal hypothetical certainty that conditioning of energy (therefore consciousness) is the purpose. Even evolution won't stand unconditioned energy.

...I'll 'bet' that I'm here to condition my consciousness through energy and matter.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
...no knowing, even if it's 'yet'.

...given what I wrote about consciousness directing energy and matter, and the laws of physics, I can say with equal hypothetical certainty that conditioning of energy (therefore consciousness) is the purpose. Even evolution won't stand unconditioned energy.

...I'll 'bet' that I'm here to condition my consciousness through energy and matter.
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It's true science does not know the intimate nature of consciousness. The difference is, the scientific hypothesis remains unfalsified, while the dualists is unfalsifiable.

For now, it is a debate which must wait for further research, IMO.
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
It's true science does not know the intimate nature of consciousness. The difference is, the scientific hypothesis remains unfalsified, while the dualists is unfalsifiable.

For now, it is a debate which must wait for further research, IMO.
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...well, if we consider how many failed attempts there have been in science :razz:

...ok, we'll leave it there for now.
 
Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
That reminds me of a point in time in the human animals existence when the species thought the earth was flat, that storms were because the gods were mad, sickness was the wrath of the gods and that the earth is only 4000 years old.... some still claim these concepts are still true...lol.

It took hundreds of years for humans to accept these changes because of religiosity.

Science says well fuck, we were wrong, lets move on and figure some more shit out...
 
NietzscheKeen

NietzscheKeen

Well-Known Member
Well, I minored in Neuroscience, so I'm in no way an expert or even knowledgable for that matter. There is one theory of consciousness that I do favor though. I should also mention that loathe all this new age bull crap, but it's possible that their bull crap may overlap with reality; it's only coincidence though... trust me. The theory I favor states that consciousness is an illusion by the brain, for the brain. We're putting a label on something that isn't really there.

Eye, where is the consciousness contained within the brain? It must be the ventricles, right? And it somehow doesn't escape during surgery?
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
NietzscheKeen said:
Well, I minored in Neuroscience, so I'm in no way an expert or even knowledgable for that matter. There is one theory of consciousness that I do favor though. I should also mention that loathe all this new age bull crap, but it's possible that their bull crap may overlap with reality; it's only coincidence though... trust me. The theory I favor states that consciousness is an illusion by the brain, for the brain. We're putting a label on something that isn't really there.

Eye, where is the consciousness contained within the brain? It must be the ventricles, right? And it somehow doesn't escape during surgery?
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...some say the seat is the pineal, and not in the new age sense. Otherwise, I have to say that it is in each atom, so I'm not sure how anything would 'escape'.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
...some say the seat is the pineal, and not in the new age sense. Otherwise, I have to say that it is in each atom, so I'm not sure how anything would 'escape'.
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and "some say" the seat of "consciousness" resides in the heart, others that it resides in the stomach, and others still in the reproductive organs.

"some say" that consciousness resides in the "soul" or the "energy" of the biological electromagnetic field.

"some say" that animals (and by extension, infants) have no consciousness since they are rooted entirely in stimulus and response.

"some say" that consciousness is found in plants.

lets face it "some say" a lot of stupid shit.

the pineal gland is a regulatory body deep within the most primitive parts of the brain. it is found in ALL animals with a brain more complex than is required to eat and reproduce. (LoL sea cucumbers)

you COULD make the case that dogs have a rudimentary consciousness, but only a dippledink would make that same claim with regards to a chickens or goldfish despite all having pineal glands.

in my opinion conciusness is the result of the brains attempt to make sense of itself, resulting in an endlessly recursive self evaluation, and eventually awareness of the simple fact of awareness. i suspect that besides humans the only animals on earth with the requisite brain complexity and native intelligence to begin the process of "consciousness" are Felis Domesticus.

and i for one welcome our new Feline Overlords.

 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
^ ...some say things like 'some say' because they couldn't possibly sum up every work on the subject in a few sentences. Some say that you haven't answered the question. Ehhh, what's up (with that), doc?
 
NietzscheKeen

NietzscheKeen

Well-Known Member
If I remember correctly, it is either part of or an extention of the endocrine system. One thing it does is regulate hibernation cycles, can't remember what else it does. Google would be a better source than me, lol.
 
Nevaeh420

Nevaeh420

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Dislexicmidget2021 said:
What exactly dose the pineal gland regulate not only in humans but in every animal that has one if you dont mind me asking?
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the pineal is the dopamine controller, regulating sleep appetite and the "positive response" of the pleasure mechanism.

it likely has NO function in the "soul" since religions almost invariably forbid anything that triggers a dopamine dump (i.e. fun)

taken to it's (theo)logical conclusion, the pineal gland is the little devil on your left shoulder urging you to be lazy, eat Funyuns, smoke dope and masturbate.

meanwhile the conscious mind's willingness to forgo immediate gratification, to endure unpleasant sensations and consider the future are the ESSENCE of the human being, and that is controlled by no portion of the physical brain as yet identified by science.

the increase of the capacity for denial of the pineal's baser urges represents an advancement to the legendary Uber Mensch, while meek submission to the urge to jerk off and munch brownies in mom's basement would be movement in the opposite direction.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
^ ...some say things like 'some say' because they couldn't possibly sum up every work on the subject in a few sentences. Some say that you haven't answered the question. Ehhh, what's up (with that), doc?
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"some say" when you mean Rene Descartes, it's better to SAY Rene Descartes, rather than appear to be repeating some shit your cousin's girlfriend's brother's college room-mate said, fourth hand.

since Rene Descartes is the only real scientist of note to make the claim that the pineal is associated with religious or theological nonsense, and such twaddle is utterly rejected by even a cursory examination of neurobiology, one would think simply mentioning Descartes by name would lend some MUCH NEEDED "gravitas" to your statement, since the only other members of the "Some Say" club who hold the opinion you are repeating are daft twats selling magical healing crystals and get rich quick schemes.

"some say" and "some would argue" are the weaseliest of the weasel words, invoking un-named sources, hearsay and rumour in an attempt to manufacture a bandwagon fallacy where even the existence of the Bandwagon is fallacious.

"some say" is even less convincing that "the word on the street" and "common knowledge". "some say" is usually followed by the kind of well reasoned argument that is discussed in the The Honeycomb Hideout between segments of The Smurfs on Saturday morning.

Edit: and just for clarification, im not hating on you or your views, you just use the weasel words A LOT, and that is a burr under my saddle.
kinda like when somebody says "Nookyular".

You Must Be At Least THIS HOT :




to say "Nookyular" around me without getting sharply corrected.
 
Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
and "some say" the seat of "consciousness" resides in the heart, others that it resides in the stomach, and others still in the reproductive organs.

"some say" that consciousness resides in the "soul" or the "energy" of the biological electromagnetic field.

"some say" that animals (and by extension, infants) have no consciousness since they are rooted entirely in stimulus and response.

"some say" that consciousness is found in plants.

lets face it "some say" a lot of stupid shit.

the pineal gland is a regulatory body deep within the most primitive parts of the brain. it is found in ALL animals with a brain more complex than is required to eat and reproduce. (LoL sea cucumbers)

you COULD make the case that dogs have a rudimentary consciousness, but only a dippledink would make that same claim with regards to a chickens or goldfish despite all having pineal glands.

in my opinion conciusness is the result of the brains attempt to make sense of itself, resulting in an endlessly recursive self evaluation, and eventually awareness of the simple fact of awareness. i suspect that besides humans the only animals on earth with the requisite brain complexity and native intelligence to begin the process of "consciousness" are Felis Domesticus.

and i for one welcome our new Feline Overlords.

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I LOL'd.... :)
 
NietzscheKeen

NietzscheKeen

Well-Known Member
OMG, I literally just ranted about my professor saying Nue-Cue-lar this morning. It must be a sign from above....
Couldn't possibly be coincidence.
 
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