Hermies & Feminized Seeds

waterdawg said:

I'm so confused lol. If you buy a bag of pot and there is a seed in it, the plant most likely hermied correct? So is that plant not prone to hermie barring stress. Is there not some genetic make up that encourages some plants, to garantee contiuation, hermie more than others? These are all things I have read so not sure if this is true. And again being a newb I'm on a quest for knowledge lol.

Click to expand...

yes, if you got a bag of weed and it's only got 1 or 2 seeds in it, more then likely the plant throw nanner and you got some seeded bud.. the hermie trait, being dominant instead of recessive, tends to show in a large % of it's offspring, meaning seeds, ie, plants, from hermie parents, tend to also be hermie..

I never have had a femmed bag seed turn hermie maybe I am lucky or just have a good environment.

racerboy71 said:

yes, if you got a bag of weed and it's only got 1 or 2 seeds in it, more then likely the plant throw nanner and you got some seeded bud.. the hermie trait, being dominant instead of recessive, tends to show in a large % of it's offspring, meaning seeds, ie, plants, from hermie parents, tend to also be hermie..

Click to expand...

RB, can any Female MJ plant go Herm? You know the answer: YES. Seeds come from 2 different sources, male pollen got to your female plant, or, your female plant was stressed and produced balls/nanners and pollinated itself or the other female plants in the garden/grow room. The seeds that come from female pollen will be female, guaranteed. There is no way a female plant can produce a male seed.

Today, most growers hate male plants anywhere near their grow, unless they are wanting male/female seeds. So, if you find seeds in your bag weed, 99% of the time they are female seeds because the plant was doused by female pollen via Hermaphrodites in or near the garden.

I have grown full, mature, plants from Hermaphrodites that pollinated herself and possibly other ladies in my grow room. And, the female plants from those seeds never produced any balls/nanners. Other times though, I was plucking the shit out of my plants, keeping any balls/nanners from bursting. I do believe I have stressful moments in my room that have caused my plants to Herm, but that is pretty much the case in any indoor grow because the environment is not natural.

I am not a scientist or a botanist, so I'm really only speaking from experience and the research I've done, so I'm totally open to a valid correction on this subject.

Guitar Man said:

RB, can any Female MJ plant go Herm? You know the answer: YES. Seeds come from 2 different sources, male pollen got to your female plant, or, your female plant was stressed and produced balls/nanners and pollinated itself or the other female plants in the garden/grow room. The seeds that come from female pollen will be female, guaranteed. There is no way a female plant can produce a male seed.

Today, most growers hate male plants anywhere near their grow, unless they are wanting male/female seeds. So, if you find seeds in your bag weed, 99% of the time they are female seeds because the plant was doused by female pollen via Hermaphrodites in or near the garden.

I have grown full, mature, plants from Hermaphrodites that pollinated herself and possibly other ladies in my grow room. And, the female plants from those seeds never produced any balls/nanners. Other times though, I was plucking the shit out of my plants, keeping any balls/nanners from bursting. I do believe I have stressful moments in my room that have caused my plants to Herm, but that is pretty much the case in any indoor grow because the environment is not natural.

I am not a scientist or a botanist, so I'm really only speaking from experience and the research I've done, so I'm totally open to a valid correction on this subject.

Click to expand...

ok, so where did what you said differ at all from what i said?? kind of lost me..

and you forgot that seeds can also be made another way, by spraying an otherwise healthy, non hermie female plant with a chemical such as collidial silver, which wil force the non hermie to grow stamen, which the pollen is either used on the pistils of the same plant, creating s1s, or used on another plant, creating f1s..

and i just thought about, it's not true that all strains will go hermie on you, even under heavy stress. this is why there are tons of clone only strains.. if you could simply stress any mj plant to produce balls, you could easily make s1 seeds from it as well, which we all know is not true..
so yeah, not true that any female plant can be stressed into producing stamen, ie, hemie.. it's also true that a lot of strains chemicals like c.s. won't work either... either a, it won't grow balls at all, or b, it does, but the pollen will be sterile and useless in a breeding project..

racerboy71 said:

and i just thought about, it's not true that all strains will go hermie on you, even under heavy stress. this is why there are tons of clone only strains.. if you could simply stress any mj plant to produce balls, you could easily make s1 seeds from it as well, which we all know is not true..
so yeah, not true that any female plant can be stressed into producing stamen, ie, hemie.. it's also true that a lot of strains chemicals like c.s. won't work either... either a, it won't grow balls at all, or b, it does, but the pollen will be sterile and useless in a breeding project..

Click to expand...

Actually, if you are talking about 'clone only' strains - they are 'clone only' because someone, somewhere, along the line considered a single plant unique and desirable but couldn't/wouldn't backcross the plant with ancestors as part of a breeding program to stabilize the plant for the characteristics they like/found. You could still make a 'clone only' female produce pollen for breeding though if you wanted to - but without access to the plants ancestry there would be no way to easily backcross and get rid of the different phenotypes so you'd be starting at square one.

SableZen said:

Actually, if you are talking about 'clone only' strains - they are 'clone only' because someone, somewhere, along the line considered a single plant unique and desirable but couldn't/wouldn't backcross the plant with ancestors as part of a breeding program to stabilize the plant for the characteristics they like/found. You could still make a 'clone only' female produce pollen for breeding though if you wanted to - but without access to the plants ancestry there would be no way to easily backcross and get rid of the different phenotypes so you'd be starting at square one.

Click to expand...

my point was just that not all strains will go hermie, either under stress, or even with the introduction of a chemical like cs, or if they do, the pollen might not be viable..

racerboy71 said:

so yeah, not true that any female plant can be stressed into producing stamen, ie, hemie.. it's also true that a lot of strains chemicals like c.s. won't work either... either a, it won't grow balls at all, or b, it does, but the pollen will be sterile and useless in a breeding project..

Click to expand...

Just anecdotal but I recently tried to make feminized pollen from a Jack Herer and it took almost 7 weeks to reverse. It was too late to use the pollen on my crop so not sure if was viable. JH is a very stable strain which is why I chose it... still have some pollen and will try it in a few weeks.

racerboy71 said:

my point was just that not all strains will go hermie, either under stress, or even with the introduction of a chemical like cs, or if they do, the pollen might not be viable..

Click to expand...

Ah ok, sorry I misunderstood. But any female can be made to produce pollen with colloidal silver, gibberellic acid, or anything that binds or interferes with ethylene. Since in the absence of ethylene, flower bracts produce male flowers instead of female flowers. Male plants simply don't produce ethylene when flowering so they always produce male flowers.

Not to go too far off-topic but since it's always brought up and has already been brought up I'm throwing this out there too: cannabis doesn't technically 'turn' hermaphroditic or 'hermie' either. A female cannabis plant is always a female plant and a male cannabis plant is always a male plant - and although hormones (or the lack-thereof) can cause a female to produce male flowers, each individual flower is either male or female. True hermaphroditic plants have flowers that contain both stamens and carpals in one package.

SableZen said:

Ah ok, sorry I misunderstood. But any female can be made to produce pollen with colloidal silver, gibberellic acid, or anything that binds or interferes with ethylene. Since in the absence of ethylene, flower bracts produce male flowers instead of female flowers. Male plants simply don't produce ethylene when flowering so they always produce male flowers.

Not to go too far off-topic but since it's always brought up and has already been brought up I'm throwing this out there too: cannabis doesn't technically 'turn' hermaphroditic or 'hermie' either. A female cannabis plant is always a female plant and a male cannabis plant is always a male plant - and although hormones (or the lack-thereof) can cause a female to produce male flowers, each individual flower is either male or female. True hermaphroditic plants have flowers that contain both stamens and carpals in one package.

Click to expand...

Totally true I have seen the true hermies but they are rare they have both balls and flowers interwoven.

Ok I've done some reading lol. It is true that (pretty sure i understand this lol, correct me if I'm wrong) all plants are either male or female, all plants have built in defences for ensuring survival, female plants have the ability to self pollinate via female pollen, keeping in mind this is a "female" plant. Some strains having better ability to do this. Breeders will stress the females from a particular strain to see what plants are more susceptible to producing female pollen and take them out of the program. The females that showed less of a tendency to do this were left in and induced to again self pollinate with chemicals. Now if its a reputable breeder they will do this for many generations. Basically reducing this trait to almost nil. There are breeders that for reasons of profit will not spend the time, effort, and money to breed out this trait. This is what I understand happens and please clarify anything I have said that is wrong. Also, and I haven't gotten to this part yet lol. I believe I have read that selfed plant offspring could possibly show more of the unwanted recessive gene's than a regularly seeds offspring. I am going to delve into this. As I only have limited room I have been leaning towards inducing pollination but due to the differing pheno's cloning would still be my preferred method. Also i shut my room down for the summer so that creates another obstacle.

Here's one of many articles out there that are a good read http://www.lycaeum.org/~sky/data/grow/c17.html

Started to read it but my eyes are burning
ill try again tomorrow.