Help, flushing not raising ph.

VirginHarvester

Well-Known Member
Magnesium deficiency probably due to low ph.

2 gallon pot.

I checked run off after flushing with two gallons of 7.0 water two nights ago and it was 6.0 or below. So I am flushing again tonight this time with 5 gallons 7.0 water and the final runoff is still around 6.0.

Am I missing something?

I'm going to flush with another two gallons but what if that doesn't bring the ph back up? This is not even a 3 week old plant.

The soil is peat moss, pine bark, vermiculite, perlite.
 

VirginHarvester

Well-Known Member
Let me make sure I understand this, a guy posts a thread "Male or Female" and gets 8 responses in 30 minutes but nobody can offer any advice on something as basic as a flushing problem?
 

bonz

Well-Known Member
dont know if this will help


Beginners pH Guide.
by:GigZ-16

I posted this yesterday, but I decided to add a few more helpful things and repost it. Sorry for the double posting.

What is pH?


pH is the measure of how basic or acidic a solution is. The pH of a substance is measured in a numerical fashion using a scale of 1 through 14. A solution with a pH higher than 7.0 is considered to be basic and is called a base (or alkaline). A solution with a pH less than 7.0 is considered to be acidic and is called an acid. The strength of an acid or base can be either weak or strong. The stronger an acid or base, the closer the solution is to its respective number on the pH scale (basic being 15 and acid being 1). The weaker a solution or base, the closer its pH value is to a neutral rating (neutral being 7). Every full point change in pH signifies a 10 fold increase or decrease in acidity or alkalinity. For example, water with a pH of 6.0 is 10 times more acidic than water with a pH of 7.0, while water with a pH of 5.0 is 100 times more acidic than water with a pH of 7.0.

Here are some examples of acids and bases and their respective pH ratings.
-.2 Battery Acid
1.2 Gastric fluid
2.2 Lemon juice
3.6 Orange juice
4.4 Beer
5.6 Pure Rain
6.6 Milk
7.0 Distilled water (H2O)
8.0 Seawater
9.2 Baking soda (NaHCO3)
10.6 Milk of Magnesia (Mg(OH)2)
11.4 Household ammonia (NH3)
12.8 Household bleach (NaClO)
13.6 Household lye (NaOH)

What is PH? pt. 2

pH is defined in chemistry in several ways. An acid is sometimes defined as a solution with the potential to donate a Hydrogen ion (H+, also called a proton), or to accept a Hydroxide Ion (OH-) from a base. A base on the other hand is sometimes defined as a solution with ability to donate a Hydroxide Ion, or... you've guessed it, accept a Hydrogen ion. Low pH corresponds to a high hydrogen ion concentration and vice versa, while a high pH corresponds to a high Hydroxide ion concentration and vice versa.

Why is pH important when growing a plant?

Any substance that is going to be used to support any form of life has to fall within a certain range on the pH scale. The range may vary from organism to organism. Marijuana is no different. The soil, nutrient solutions and water all need to be monitored and adjusted to stay within a specific range, depending on your method of growing. When growing Marijuana in soil, the soil and water supply should stay within the range of 6.5 to 7.0, while in hydroponics the nutrient solution should stay within the range of 5.5 and 6.0.
When a plant's soil or nutrient solution becomes too basic the nutrients become unavailable to be absorbed by the roots. When the soil or nutrient solution becomes too acidic the acid salts will chemically bind together the available nutrients and they will be nonabsorbent by the roots. When this happens the plant will show tell-tale signs of stress. Some novice growers and even a few seasoned growers will falsely think they need to add more nutes or fert, which only compounds the problem by usually causing toxic salt build-up. Toxic salt build-up stops the roots from absorbing water. So remember as a rule of thumb to always test the pH before reducing or increasing a fert or nute dosage!
The pH of your soil or hydroponics setup can be measured with a simple 20$ or 30$ pH Tester, or small one time paper tests. These are highly recommended when growing any plant.

Some things to remember when using an electronic pH tester

1. Clean the probes of the meter after each test and wipe away any corrosion.
2. Pack the soil tightly around the probes.
3. Water soil with distilled or neutral pH water (7.0) before testing.
4. The meters measure the electrical current between two probes and are
designed to work in moist soil. If the soil is dry, the probes do not give
an accurate reading

What causes fluctuations in pH?

When growing in soil any fertilizer you use can cause an excess build up of salts when it decomposes in the soil. This almost always results in a more acidic soil which stunts the plant's growth and causes brown foliage. When using a Hydroponics set-up the nutrient solution can very easily cause a fluctuation in the growing reservoir. Other common reasons as to why soil may become too acidic when doing outdoor grows are rainfall, leaching, organic matter decay and a previous harvest of a high yeild crop in the same soil. In dry climates, such as the desert Southwest US, Spain, Australia, etc., irrigation water is often alkaline with a pH above 7. The water in rainy climates, such as the Pacific Northwest of North America, the UK, Netherlands and Northern Europe, is often acidic with a pH below 6. Lightly sandy soils with little clay and organic matter are quicker too become more acidic. Another common mistake is that a grower will mix his soil unevenly, leading to "hot spots" in the growing medium, so mix all ratios as well as you can.

How do I raise/lower my pH?

A great way to regulate the pH of your soil is to use Dolomite Lime(calcium-magnesium carbonate). While growing Cannabis plants in containers, mix one cup of fine dolomite lime for each cubic foot of soil, then lightly water it. After watering, mix it once more and wait a day or two before checking the pH. While growing in an outdoor garden, follow the dolomite lime manufacturers instructions. Dolomite Lime works well because it has a neutral pH rating of 7.0 and tends to keep the soil a constant pH throughout the entire life cycle of the plant. This is a highly recommended method of regulating your soil pH.
If you find the pH of your soil or Hydroponic reservoir to be too acidic or basic you could add either pH up or pH down. These are chemicals sold at places like Home Depot or any Gardening store. They usually come in one liter bottles and are to be diluted in the water used to water the soil growing plants or the Hydroponic reservoir according to directions on the packaging.

Some examples of Home remedies to raise/lower pH are as follows:
1.Lemon juice. 1/4 tbsp can bring a gallon of tap-water from 7.4 to 6.3.
2.Phosphoric acid. lowers pH and provides Phosphor too!
3.Nitric acid. lowers pH.
4.Hydrochloric acid. strongest way to lower pH
5.Hydrated lime. flush soil with a teaspoon per gallon of water to raise pH.
6.Baking Soda. eats acids to raise pH.
7.Calcium carbonate. raises pH (very strong)
8.Potassium silicate. raises pH.

What are signs of a PH fluctuation in my Cannabis plant?

A Cannabis plant can show signs of a pH flux in several ways. The leaves may begin to turn yellow or brown, dry up and/or shrivel on the sides into a straw like shape. Keep in mind however that other deficiencies and disorders may show the same signs of damage, so don't jump to conclusions until you do some testing and adjusting to your plants and their growing medium.

Some things to remember(I didn't write these ones)

1.Always test the pH of raw water and drainage water with a pH meter.
2.Raw water pH above 6.0 helps keep fertilizer mixes from becoming too acidic.
3.The pH level is much more important in organic soil gardens than in chemical
hydroponic gardens. The pH dictates the environment of bacteria necessary to the
uptake of organic nutrients.
 

brasmith

Well-Known Member
holy crap i`m still sleaping, sorry. add lime to soil
Bonz has it right. Mix 1 ounce of dolomite lime per gallon of soil and this will bring your soil ph up to 6.5-7.0 which is exactly where the plant is able to utilize it's food.

Here check out this chart
 

Attachments

VirginHarvester

Well-Known Member
i thought low 6.0 ph area was good for plants
My ph reader is one of the aquarium type readers and 6.0(yellow) is its lowest reading. 6.0 was the reading after 7 gallons of 7.0 water. The larger issue is why I can't raise it up.

Bonz has it right. Mix 1 ounce of dolomite lime per gallon of soil and this will bring your soil ph up to 6.5-7.0
I already have dolomite lime, the pellets. I've added 1 tsp per gallon of water twice in the past two weeks to try and help the magnesium deficiency, and my soil is still showing acidic.

How can I mix it into the soil now... or should I just add some with water in feedings?
 

bonz

Well-Known Member
If your results prove to have dropped considerably, say to around 5.5 (which can happen in late stages of flowering), you will need to add some lime into your soil to help buffer the pH back up again.

Remove the first inch or so of soil, taking care not to damage any roots whilst performing this task. Then sprinkle the lime into the pot, nice and evenly at a rate of 1 teaspoon (5 ml) of lime per gallon of soil. Then replace the soil you removed earlier, and saturate the soil good to wash in the lime.

Do the same test next time your plants need watering just to check that everything is fine, if more lime needs to be added then just repeat the process again till you reach close to 6.5 – 7.0 with the runoff.

Ensuring that your pH is correct should be done throughout the life cycle; this will help eliminate any nutrient lockout that may occur. I recommend doing this once a month just to keep the PH in check, and you should never have a problem with deficiencies caused by pH lockout.
 

brasmith

Well-Known Member
When I had this issue (soil ph 5.5 a few weeks ago) the dolomite lime pellets is what worked best. I loosened the top 4-5 inches of soil and mixed 1 ounce of pellets right in and then gave it a good watering. By the next day the ph had gone up to 6.5. There is also hydraded dolomite lime which you add to your water, but i don't know where to get it and i've never tried the hydraded version. Can you post a few pics of your plants? this might help us to help you.

Btw I also tried some ph up before i purchased and used the lime and it did not help the soil grow at all.
 

VirginHarvester

Well-Known Member
When I had this issue (soil ph 5.5 a few weeks ago) the dolomite lime pellets is what worked best. I loosened the top 4-5 inches of soil and mixed 1 ounce of pellets right in and then gave it a good watering. By the next day the ph had gone up to 6.5. There is also hydraded dolomite lime which you add to your water, but i don't know where to get it and i've never tried the hydraded version. Can you post a few pics of your plants? this might help us to help you.
I apologize, cannot post pics. I'm in the process of posting a link with a pic in response to bonz of what my mg defic looks like, although mine is looking more advanced now than that pic.

I read all the "lime" is the same whether it's garden lime, pelletized, dolomite, etc. I don't think it matters whether you add to soil or to water, although I think if you dissolve in water you should go slower(lighter) because it all goes straight to the plant whereas if you add pellets to soil it probably dissolves over two or three waterings.
 

VirginHarvester

Well-Known Member
If your results prove to have dropped considerably, say to around 5.5 (which can happen in late stages of flowering), you will need to add some lime into your soil to help buffer the pH back up again.

Remove the first inch or so of soil, taking care not to damage any roots whilst performing this task. Then sprinkle the lime into the pot, nice and evenly at a rate of 1 teaspoon (5 ml) of lime per gallon of soil. Then replace the soil you removed earlier, and saturate the soil good to wash in the lime.

Do the same test next time your plants need watering just to check that everything is fine, if more lime needs to be added then just repeat the process again till you reach close to 6.5 – 7.0 with the runoff.

Ensuring that your pH is correct should be done throughout the life cycle; this will help eliminate any nutrient lockout that may occur. I recommend doing this once a month just to keep the PH in check, and you should never have a problem with deficiencies caused by pH lockout.
FWIW, for the past couple weeks my plant looked like the one in this link under magnesium deficiency- lime green edges, leaves curling upwards.
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - The Complete guide to Sick Plants,pH, and Pest troubles!

It's only 3 weeks old... it's growing very fast- fat stems, nice shade leaves, just do this at least every other watering the entire plant life or until it's stable. And of course, I should ph the lime water back up to about 7.0?

And I also have some epsom salts for pure magnesium if it is recommended but at that ph it might cause lockout of calcium?

Thanks a lot.

VH
 

VirginHarvester

Well-Known Member
Here's the rest of what I meant to post above but for some reason it wouldn't take when I posted it:

It's only 3 weeks old... it's growing very fast- fat stems, nice shade leaves, eight nodes- it just shows magnesium deficiency.

As of this morning it looks worse because all the new growth at the top looks exclusively lime green, almost as if I flushed the magnesium out of the soil. But I still can't understand why flushing didn't raise the ph some and make magnesium more easily absorbed. I probably flushed everything out of the soil last night.

But anyway bonz, since I have the lime pellets, should I just add 1 teaspoon in water since that gets it down to the roots faster? This pelletized lime dissolves in water. The situation actually improved(I think) the first couple times I added a teaspoon lime with watering. Maybe I have to just do this at least every other watering the entire plant life or until it's stable. And of course, I should ph the lime water back up to about 7.0?

And I also have some epsom salts for pure magnesium if it is recommended but at that ph it might cause lockout of calcium?

Thanks a lot.

VH
 

bonz

Well-Known Member
i`m starting to think you have a ph imballance and the soil is locked up. your not so concerned about getting it to the roots but more to stay in soil for each watering, but yes ph the water also but i would use the bottled ph up or down for my water and lime for the soil. when you did the flush you shoud have added nutes after because flushing would have washed them ell out. so it will probably start to yellow up.
 

VirginHarvester

Well-Known Member
i`m starting to think you have a ph imballance and the soil is locked up. your not so concerned about getting it to the roots but more to stay in soil for each watering, but yes ph the water also but i would use the bottled ph up or down for my water and lime for the soil. when you did the flush you shoud have added nutes after because flushing would have washed them ell out. so it will probably start to yellow up.
No new nutes with flush, was just phing the filtered water up to 7.0 with ph up.

So yeah, my ph is imbalanced as far as I understand it and it's in the acidic range. I do feel like it needs some lime in the soil now so I'm going to go with watering the next couple times with dissolved lime then add some to the soil after that. As advanced as it looks this morning I'm a little bit in the rescue mode.

If I feed again in a few days after this lime water dries a little could I add a little more lime with a feeding or is that supposed to go separate? I guess it wouldn't matter since the assumption of adding it to the soil means when you feed you're dissolving more lime into the soil along with the nutes.

Thanks.
VH
 

VirginHarvester

Well-Known Member
i would add to the soil so it lasted longer or you will be adding it everytime.
yeah bonz I'm going to. It's just that I want a couple waterings with the dissolved pellets to try and pull it up as soon as possible. When it looks healthier I'm going to add the pellets to the soil to keep it maintained.
 
Top