Hard water, not really, but runoff PH going up, up... ??

FluffsTravels

FluffsTravels

Well-Known Member
@Renfro Interesting. Thank you very much for that info. I just ordered a Blue Lab soil PH pen. It's about $180. Hopefully, it's quality. Blue Lab usually offer quality products. I've never used good one. Can I go to the grow store and stab the dry bale to get a reading? I've used Pro-Mix in the past.

More info... watered today with the first batch of water at 6.3 and 360ppm. Started at 110ppm but molasses and Recharge bumped it up. Second batch of water was plain with just ph down to 5.7. I made sure every plant ran off some to get an average of 1160ppm and 7.4 ph. So, based on my runoff numbers for years, the problem isn't a buildup of too much nutes or salts but the PH is way higher than normal. @myke mentioned transpiration... these beasts are taking up more water then ever so they're transferring plenty of water. If it's not primarily a soil PH issue, they could have not gotten enough water in the beginning or a bit root bound depleting nutes stored in soil. Thank you, Myke for getting Renfro involved. Very appreciative.
 
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Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
FluffsTravels said:
Hopefully, it's quality.
Click to expand...
It is. A few tips for using it. Use the probe cover to poke the hole and then gently insert the probe into the hole. I find that gently twisting it in the hole helps the reading get stabilized faster. Always store the probe rinsed clean of dirt and with the KCl storage solution in the probe cover. This will help the probe last much longer. It will also measure liquid pH just fine, only have to insert the bottom inch or so of the probe.

The medium probably has lime in it as a buffer and this lime is responsible for the pH #'s.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
Sunshine changed suppliers of their peat moss. When this happened the pH went up. I don't know if they are adding the same amount of lime when less is required or if they aren't adding any and the pH is just that high but for whatever reason after they changed suppliers I had to ditch the sunshine and I know a lot of other growers that had to do the same because they were fighting high pH values for the whole run. I was having to feed it at a pH of 4.8 - 5.0 to get a reading that would swing through the goldilocks zone and end up back high. At least this way I was getting access to the nutrients for part of the period between feeds. Using a soil pH meter and checking hourly I could watch the pH in the medium work it's way back up after the feed.
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Renfro imo is correct, no matter what, having a good ph pen is important. I got an apera liquid and soil (after many questionsand discussions), and it showed me the subtle way the cheap pens appear to work.

The cheapies can be calibrated, yet it is a fake calibration. They can calibrate 7, 4 or 10, but it cannot really calibrate to all of them i.e. if calibrated to 7, it doesnt go away from 7 well. If calibrated to 7 and 4, they dont measure higher ph well..and same for 7 and 10. Heck the paper manual even says that in its own way.

The apera was calibrated when it came. I checked it immediately, perfect. Have checked since and still havent needed to recalibrate. Its annoying to have to buy a bunch of expensive devices, but this one is so key.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
ComfortCreator said:
Renfro imo is correct, no matter what, having a good ph pen is important. I got an apera liquid and soil (after many questionsand discussions), and it showed me the subtle way the cheap pens appear to work.

The cheapies can be calibrated, yet it is a fake calibration. They can calibrate 7, 4 or 10, but it cannot really calibrate to all of them i.e. if calibrated to 7, it doesnt go away from 7 well. If calibrated to 7 and 4, they dont measure higher ph well..and same for 7 and 10. Heck the paper manual even says that in its own way.

The apera was calibrated when it came. I checked it immediately, perfect. Have checked since and still havent needed to recalibrate. Its annoying to have to buy a bunch of expensive devices, but this one is so key.
Click to expand...
I love the Apera PH60S. It's a beast. The Bluelab is also good. It's nice to have both just in case I get a wild reading and have doubts. Checking with a totally different pen either confirms or it doesn't lol.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
I should also note that it's wise to take two or three readings from different spots in the pot and average them. Also, plants can be different. I have seen it happen where the same medium would react a little differently and maybe only one strain or plant was out of range. Getting the soil pH meter allowed me to pinpoint why I would often have that one plant that just wasn't doing well.
 
FluffsTravels

FluffsTravels

Well-Known Member
@Renfro If you watered with a 5.7 and a 6.3 ph mix and ended up with runoff at 7.4, would you water with an even lower ph'd solution? Have you ever tried organic elemental sulphur? I know it takes a while but with almost 5 to 6 weeks left I thought it might help a bit. This really sucks bc I have another bunch transplanted and ready to flip in a week or so. I use pots similar to your first first grow in your journal. I didn't get too deep yet into your journal, but I thought maybe you were a duck or a beaver(?). Everyone around me is one or the other. ;)
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member

Medium pH Correction (Soil and Coco)

Checking and adjusting the pH of your root zone in soil or coco is a very important part of growing healthy plants. Often you will notice nutrient deficiencies despite the fact you know you have provided an ample feed at an appropriate pH level. When this happens it’s generally either...
www.rollitup.org
 
myke

myke

Well-Known Member
FluffsTravels said:
@Renfro Interesting. Thank you very much for that info. I just ordered a Blue Lab soil PH pen. It's about $180. Hopefully, it's quality. Blue Lab usually offer quality products. I've never used good one. Can I go to the grow store and stab the dry bale to get a reading? I've used Pro-Mix in the past.

More info... watered today with the first batch of water at 6.3 and 360ppm. Started at 110ppm but molasses and Recharge bumped it up. Second batch of water was plain with just ph down to 5.7. I made sure every plant ran off some to get an average of 1160ppm and 7.4 ph. So, based on my runoff numbers for years, the problem isn't a buildup of too much nutes or salts but the PH is way higher than normal. @myke mentioned transpiration... these beasts are taking up more water then ever so they're transferring plenty of water. If it's not primarily a soil PH issue, they could have not gotten enough water in the beginning or a bit root bound depleting nutes stored in soil. Thank you, Myke for getting Renfro involved. Very appreciative.
Click to expand...
Which blue lab did you order?Or is there only one for soil? I found $191 cdn thx
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
myke said:
Which blue lab did you order?Or is there only one for soil? I found $191 cdn thx
Click to expand...
The soil pen is a detachable "head" that goes on the main meter. I got the apera ph meter, then bought the soil probe separately. It plugs in in about 5 seconds. You could likely just get the soil probe but i got both.

The bluelab i believe is a combo all in 1?
 
FluffsTravels

FluffsTravels

Well-Known Member
I believe there is only one Blue Lab for soil. It was $185 on Amazon as it's sold out about everywhere else. I already have a couple Blue Lab ph and ppm meters as well as the combo wall hanging unit. I've had good success with Blue Lab over many years. I should have it by tomorrow. Renfro said to test the peat at the stores before buying but the instructions say the soil has to be moist. I wonder how he goes about that?

I found out some more info on the Sunshine #4 problems. We previously used Aurora Classic Procision which I highly recommend. I just couldn't find it in my new location, but I think I'll make a trip for it. Aurora bought the bog that they and Sunshine/Sungro used. So, now Aurora gets the best of the bog and Sunshine is getting the shit Aurora doesn't want or is left over (unless like Renfro said they're now using a completely different source).
 
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