Gun Lovers, You're Screwed.

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
CatHedral said:
The guns I’m thinking of were never registered.

Interesting read

www.google.com

Gun Use Surges in Europe, Where Firearms Are Rare

Gun ownership is rising across Europe, a continent that until recently faced far less gun crime and violence than much of the globe, driven in part by insecurity arising from terrorist attacks.
www.google.com www.google.com
Click to expand...
Coudn't read it because I'm not sending money to the WSJ.

I found this:

1630861859090.png

The thing is, almost all of those guns are very rarely used in self defense. So, I don't understand your point. The US has three times the number of people per capita owning guns and almost ten times as many gun homicides per capita. Why would a few more gun owners in Montenegro have any bearing on the carnage in the US?

The top lines of the article you mentioned highlighted fear as a deciding factor in people owning guns. The logic fail in that decision is, people who own guns are less safe than if they didn't. But we are talking about fear, not logic. We live in a time of very low homicide rates compared to just 30 years ago. Why so fearful? @hanimmal is probably onto something when he describes the influencing campaigns made by shady people, countries and corporations via media and internet. Fear is easy to elevate and a classic sales tool.
 
CatHedral

CatHedral

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Coudn't read it because I'm not sending money to the WSJ.

I found this:

View attachment 4980231

The thing is, almost all of those guns are very rarely used in self defense. So, I don't understand your point. The US has three times the number of people per capita owning guns and almost ten times as many gun homicides per capita. Why would a few more gun owners in Montenegro have any bearing on the carnage in the US?

The top lines of the article you mentioned highlighted fear as a deciding factor in people owning guns. The logic fail in that decision is, people who own guns are less safe than if they didn't. But we are talking about fear, not logic. We live in a time of very low homicide rates compared to just 30 years ago. Why so fearful? @hanimmal is probably onto something when he describes the influencing campaigns made by shady people, countries and corporations via media and internet. Fear is easy to elevate and a classic sales tool.
Click to expand...
Do you have data on how many instances of self-defense with a firearm happen per annum?
Also, do you have data on the ratio of self-defense instances to instances of calling the police?
My data on these and other important factors are lacking.

You speak of fear. When I was college-age, I was held up at gunpoint. Since then I have felt vulnerable, and have not been without a credible defensive arm in the house since. I don't have the privilege to carry, so I don't.

I also live in a rather remote area. Should violence befall this dwelling, I have doubt I can call in an armed response in under half an hour.

As for being influenced, I consume no gun magazines or websites. I quit the NRA once they started to publish blatant MAGA in their propaganda publications.

But I do want the individual privilege (it has been too circumscribed to be called a right any longer, and I expect the status of the 2A to continue to evolve) to keep, bear, buy, sell, bequeath, operate and maintain any firearm that falls below certain classes (destructive device, full-auto) to be generally available in all 50. That's me.

Frankly, there is one condition that I would cheerfully relinquish almost all of my handguns.

That would be the invention and general availability of a nonlethal stun device that quietly drops the target WITHOUT inducing pain or shock. My overarching concern is personal and site security, and such a stunner would do quite nicely. It would also do much toward containing police misusing their duty arms.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
CatHedral said:
Do you have data on how many instances of self-defense with a firearm happen per annum?
Also, do you have data on the ratio of self-defense instances to instances of calling the police?
My data on these and other important factors are lacking.

You speak of fear. When I was college-age, I was held up at gunpoint. Since then I have felt vulnerable, and have not been without a credible defensive arm in the house since. I don't have the privilege to carry, so I don't.

I also live in a rather remote area. Should violence befall this dwelling, I have doubt I can call in an armed response in under half an hour.

As for being influenced, I consume no gun magazines or websites. I quit the NRA once they started to publish blatant MAGA in their propaganda publications.

But I do want the individual privilege (it has been too circumscribed to be called a right any longer, and I expect the status of the 2A to continue to evolve) to keep, bear, buy, sell, bequeath, operate and maintain any firearm that falls below certain classes (destructive device, full-auto) to be generally available in all 50. That's me.

Frankly, there is one condition that I would cheerfully relinquish almost all of my handguns.

That would be the invention and general availability of a nonlethal stun device that quietly drops the target WITHOUT inducing pain or shock. My overarching concern is personal and site security, and such a stunner would do quite nicely. It would also do much toward containing police misusing their duty arms.
Click to expand...
Yes, there is plenty of information available to those who are interested in the subject.

But your post said it. You were traumatized once and are now fearful of being without a gun. Trauma is real. It affects a person's emotional and physical health. It is also a powerful motivator and it is completely reasonable that you to bought a gun to alleviate your trauma. However, what research on the subject shows us that gun owners are less safe than if they didn't own a gun.

Regarding remote areas. Ranchers in Oregon say the same as you. They live out in the boonies and have to provide their own security. I have no problem with this. I have no problem with a peaceful person who owns a gun. I simply want gun owners to take responsibility for the problem that they contribute to.

That said, here is supporting information for my claim that guns make gun owners and the people around them less safe. Owning a gun protects a person from homicide in their home? No it doesn't. A household with one gun in it is 1.6 times more likely to have a homicide compared to non-gun owners. That, compounded with other risks, such as suicide and accidents, simply says the feeling one has about guns protecting them is false.

1630868595751.png
www.scientificamerican.com

More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows

More firearms do not keep people safe, hard numbers show. Why do so many Americans believe the opposite?
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com

(this not pointed at Cat) goddammit. Lock those guns up. Jeez.
 
CatHedral

CatHedral

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Yes, there is plenty of information available to those who are interested in the subject.

But your post said it. You were traumatized once and are now fearful of being without a gun. Trauma is real. It affects a person's emotional and physical health. It is also a powerful motivator and it is completely reasonable that you to bought a gun to alleviate your trauma. However, what research on the subject shows us that gun owners are less safe than if they didn't own a gun.

Regarding remote areas. Ranchers in Oregon say the same as you. They live out in the boonies and have to provide their own security. I have no problem with this. I have no problem with a peaceful person who owns a gun. I simply want gun owners to take responsibility for the problem that they contribute to.

That said, here is supporting information for my claim that guns make gun owners and the people around them less safe. Owning a gun protects a person from homicide in their home? No it doesn't. A household with one gun in it is 1.6 times more likely to have a homicide compared to non-gun owners. That, compounded with other risks, such as suicide and accidents, simply says the feeling one has about guns protecting them is false.

View attachment 4980290
www.scientificamerican.com

More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows

More firearms do not keep people safe, hard numbers show. Why do so many Americans believe the opposite?
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com

(this not pointed at Cat) goddammit. Lock those guns up. Jeez.
Click to expand...
Some years ago I would stipulate the individual-favoring interpretation of the Second as premise, even axiom.

Watching the gun rights crowd correlate tightly with the MAGA delusion has tossed a bucket onto that bonfire.

I agree with you that deaths by gun should be reduced as much as possible. This has softened my stance on gun rights. I am capable of and willing to compromise. I did some searching on the topics indicated, and the results are sobering. But as has been correctly noted, personal trauma still colors my reasoning.

I used to have a 900 pound Browning gun safe. I don’t any longer. I had to make a plywood strongbox. Better than nothing I guess.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
CatHedral said:
Do you have data on how many instances of self-defense with a firearm happen per annum?
Also, do you have data on the ratio of self-defense instances to instances of calling the police?
My data on these and other important factors are lacking.

You speak of fear. When I was college-age, I was held up at gunpoint. Since then I have felt vulnerable, and have not been without a credible defensive arm in the house since. I don't have the privilege to carry, so I don't.

I also live in a rather remote area. Should violence befall this dwelling, I have doubt I can call in an armed response in under half an hour.

As for being influenced, I consume no gun magazines or websites. I quit the NRA once they started to publish blatant MAGA in their propaganda publications.

But I do want the individual privilege (it has been too circumscribed to be called a right any longer, and I expect the status of the 2A to continue to evolve) to keep, bear, buy, sell, bequeath, operate and maintain any firearm that falls below certain classes (destructive device, full-auto) to be generally available in all 50. That's me.

Frankly, there is one condition that I would cheerfully relinquish almost all of my handguns.

That would be the invention and general availability of a nonlethal stun device that quietly drops the target WITHOUT inducing pain or shock. My overarching concern is personal and site security, and such a stunner would do quite nicely. It would also do much toward containing police misusing their duty arms.
Click to expand...
that would be a phaser, Spock...which would be fucking awesome..but they ain't sellin em yet :(
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Kerowacked said:
Mic drop
www.google.com

Texas Man, 68, Survives Horrifying Dog Attack Thanks to Hero Neighbors

“It seems to me that somebody had been feeding them gunpowder or something,” neighbor Elmer Levigne said. “I ain’t never seen dogs this vicious.” The retired deputy sheriff says he had no choice but to open fire on the dogs to save the victim.
www.google.com www.google.com
Click to expand...
he could have opened fire on them with a shotgun or rifle, no real justification for owning a handgun in that video...
(you know i own guns, not making an argument for anything, just saying that video doesn't make quite the point to me that you seemed to want it to make)
 
Kerowacked

Kerowacked

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
he could have opened fire on them with a shotgun or rifle, no real justification for owning a handgun in that video...
(you know i own guns, not making an argument for anything, just saying that video doesn't make quite the point to me that you seemed to want it to make)
Click to expand...
The point is not to bring a limb trimmer to a dogfight. Agree a 410 is preferred.
 
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