Grow Lights?

Sly Lycan

Member
I was recently told my grow lights may not be good for flowering. Life recently decided it needed a new bitch and that was us. It definitely set back plans to upgrade certain things, so I want to figure out where I can skimp a bit.

I am currently using these lights. Will they be okay? Should I try to keep my plants in veg and just make them thick and massive for when I can switch to flower with a new light?
 

Fluffy Butt

Well-Known Member
Those lights would cover a 2x4 area decently for flowering, wouldn't go larger than that. If you let the plants grow bigger then get a more powerful light, just think about how big they'll be after the first three weeks of flower.
 

driver77

Well-Known Member
It would work...just won't give the best results. Only way to know how bad or good your end result will be is to try if another light is out of the question.
 

twentyeight.threefive

Well-Known Member
I was recently told my grow lights may not be good for flowering. Life recently decided it needed a new bitch and that was us. It definitely set back plans to upgrade certain things, so I want to figure out where I can skimp a bit.

I am currently using these lights. Will they be okay? Should I try to keep my plants in veg and just make them thick and massive for when I can switch to flower with a new light?
I was recently told my grow lights may not be good for flowering. Life recently decided it needed a new bitch and that was us. It definitely set back plans to upgrade certain things, so I want to figure out where I can skimp a bit.

I am currently using these lights. Will they be okay? Should I try to keep my plants in veg and just make them thick and massive for when I can switch to flower with a new light?
Those are probably good for seedlings and early veg. They are going to have to been very close to the plants to provide sufficient light through veg, and you're going to have to constantly move them to keep them close to the plant as it grows. I probably wouldn't recommend them for flowering though.
 

Sly Lycan

Member
Those lights would cover a 2x4 area decently for flowering, wouldn't go larger than that. If you let the plants grow bigger then get a more powerful light, just think about how big they'll be after the first three weeks of flower.
Sorry, should have mentioned I have a 5x5 grow tent. Does that the 2x4 area count each of the six lights, or just the single light?
It would work...just won't give the best results. Only way to know how bad or good your end result will be is to try if another light is out of the question.
Currently out of the question for now. I can try and keep them in veg and when the heat starts to cool I could move them outside possibly?
Those are probably good for seedlings and early veg. They are going to have to been very close to the plants to provide sufficient light through veg, and you're going to have to constantly move them to keep them close to the plant as it grows. I probably wouldn't recommend them for flowering though.
The lights come in 6 separate pieces. Would it be better to maybe hang them going up-down to give more coverage to the plants?

As always thanks to everyone for the advice! :D
 

SnidleyBluntash

Well-Known Member
You have (6) 4foot long lights. The yellow light or the white light? I have the white ones, and I have these other ones with IR added I think 6 in a 2x4 would work fine. But I haven’t used them for flowering… but

it’s similar to an equivalent bar style light, how are they any different…

try it for us so we know.
2x4=8 square feet,
30w per foot is 240 so it’s a fine amount of watts. Now if you are in a 5x5 just push it all against 1 wall and cover as much as you can. They will probably be really close to the plants
 

heydiddlydoo

Active Member
Hi diddly doo, those lights are supplemental. I would recommend looking on eBay for used MarsHydro LED grow light. Maybe start with the TS600! That did the trick for me.
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
According to the manufacturer, those lights will use 252 watts to generate a PPFD of 181µmol across a 2'x 4'. Cannabis will survive above 64µmol with seedlings generally being given 150-300 and then 500 in veg and up to 1000 in flower.

The lights are not very efficient - 252 watts over 2' x 4' is pretty low.

In terms of bang for your buck, the Vipar XS-1500 Pro is a winner. One light will cover a 2' x 2' area for < $100. It's a 100 watt light and PPFD is almost 1000µmol at 8". Not only is the XS 1500 Pro a brilliant design but they kept their thinking caps on and built a "connecting rod" mechanism that lets you hook two of them together so you get 1kµmol ± over a 2' x 4' area for just under $200.

You plants won't die using the lights that you've specified but it's a question of is it worth your time. With so little light - it's well below seedling level - there's simply not enough glucose being generated to allow the plants to create much vegetative mass, much less flower. It's still going to take 80-100 days and you'll end up with very poorly developed plants and very low yield.

My thinking - return those lights if possible so that you can get at least one Vipar Spectra XS-1500 Pro. Put the light in the corner of the tent, so you get reflections off the walls, and grow one plant. If you do things right, you'll end up with a nice looking plant and 4-6 ounces of cannabis. Same 80-100 days, less electricity, and you won't be jumping through hoops wondering why your plants looks so bad.



For anyone interested, Mitch Westmoreland, PhD candidate under Bruce Bugbee, stated in the YT videos where he discussed some of the research that he did for his thesis, that cannabis flower yield is 0.2 to 0.3 gm/mol. I think I remembered that correctly but do watch one of the videos - they've very similar content - because they're the most fun you can have learning about weed while fully clothed <=== just checking to see who reads footnotes. :-)
 

ptrgrow

Member
1721450480443.png
Photosynthetic photon flux (PPF) refers to the total amount of light in the PAR range that a light source produces per second.
By knowing the PPF value of a grow light, you can estimate or calculate the number of lights needed per area to achieve the desired light level for your plants. Let's consider the example of a strawberry grower doing winter cultivation, aiming for a light level of 200 μmol/sm². Let's say each growing area has a total area of 40m². In this case, you would need 40m² x 200 μmol/sm² = 8000 μmol of light for that particular area. Now, let's assume a single LED grow light emits a PPF of 2000 μmol/s. To achieve the required light level, you would need 8000 μmol / 2000 μmol/s = 4 lights for each growing area.
Note that PPF represents the total number of PAR photons emitted by a light source in all directions, not the number of photons effectively reaching your plants. To determine the number of photons reaching your plants, you must consider the photosynthetic photon flux density (PPFD) measurement.
How do we measure PPF??
Measuring PPF involves performing a sphere test. This test involves placing the light fixture in a round sphere, quantifying the emission of PAR photons in all directions. The sphere test continuously records the number of PAR photons the device emits per second, and the results are typically presented in micromoles per second (μmol/s)
.


1721449746436.png
PPFD, which stands for photosynthetic photon flux density, refers to the amount of PAR photons that reach a certain surface within a certain time. It provides useful information about the amount of PAR light plants receive at different measurement points. PPFD measurements are expressed in micromoles per square meter per second (μmol/m²/s).
Different plant species have specific PPFD requirements for optimal growth and yield. For example, flowering plants like cannabis typically require about 300-600 μmol/s during the vegetative phase and 800-1000 μmol/s during flowering. These measurements represent the PPFD values needed.
However, it is important to note that PPFD has its limitations. One disadvantage is that it treats all photons in the 400–700 nm range equally, even though red and blue light play a more important role in photosynthesis.
Furthermore, PPFD focuses solely on PAR in this range, without considering the potential effects of UV and infrared light, which have been found to stimulate the production of secondary metabolites in plants.
Additionally, PPFD can easily be exaggerated. Manufacturers may specify unrealistic distances between the plant canopy and the light source, resulting in higher PPFD values. However, these distances are impractical due to factors such as the heat generated by the lighting system.
Despite these limitations, PPFD remains the best metric available for assessing the effectiveness of LED grow lights. When comparing different lighting systems, it is important to closely examine PPFD values to make informed decisions.
How do we measure PPFD?
PPFD is commonly assessed using a PAR meter, which can be positioned at different locations or heights to measure the actual light intensity at those specific spots. However, it is important to note that a PAR meter primarily measures the direct light emitted by the source and may not accurately measure light coming from the sides. In many cases, a combination of direct and indirect light hitting the plants from different angles is beneficial. This allows for deeper light penetration into the plant canopy and promotes better yield overall.
In a small-scale grow facility, using a tent where the light reflects off the sides and directly illuminates the plants tends to be more beneficial. This allows for more extensive light distribution within the limited space. On the other hand, in larger deployments with multiple lights, it is often more effective to hang the lights at higher positions. This arrangement ensures that each plant receives light from multiple angles, optimizing light coverage. Unfortunately, a standard PAR meter may not accurately measure this multi-directional lighting configuration.


Efficacy (umol/j) vs. PPF (w) Explained: LED Grow Lights Demystified: Efficacy (umol/j) vs. PPF (w) Explained - LED Grow Lights (420ledguide.com)


idk my caluma force lamp is 150 watt and had efficiency: 2,7 µmol/J ppf: 375 µmol/s and is for 80x80cm growbox at best better 60x60cm! cost 249 euro. iam new to growing but i know spider farmer, vipaspectra, mars hydro is all crap...
best lights are these lumatek, caluma, sanlight, greenception look here (sanlight and greenception is high budget) = Grow LED: breite Auswahl und günstige Preise (grow-guru.com).


and the best low budget lights like these ATS 200W Pro (grow-guru.com) are having efficiency: 2,5 µmol/J ppf: 508 µmol/s. and this is the 200watt for 369 euro (and she cost 100 to 150 euros more then mars,spider,viparspectra, becoose she is better belive me ! and here lumatek, caluma is low budget you became the most for your money 100%.


the biggest lumatek 1000 watt for 1549 euro Lumatek Zeus 1000W PRO LED 2.9 (grow-guru.com) has efficiency: 2,9 µmol/J ppf: 2925 µmol/s. idk what we talking about, and maybe i not understand it....idk why you in america or in rest of world buy other then the low or high budget mercedes under the leds for just a little amount more and know you do all right, and the lamp will not to belie you...here in city growshop they dont sell spider,mars,vipaspectra becoose noone will buy it....


and the best is the vipaspectra 600 was one year ago 50 euro at amazon, last month they try at amazon for 169 euro...then go back to 89 euro, now 99 euro becoose noone buy it VIPARSPECTRA P600 LED Grow Lampe 100w, Pflanzenlampe LED Vollspektrum, Pflanzenlampen LED Grow Light, 4 Levels Dimmen 0%-100% für Zimmerpflanzen Sämling Gemüse Blüte für Growzelt 60x60cm 40x40cm : Amazon.de: GartenLOL

as example better buy for 50-60 euro more the 75 watt caluma then the vipspectra p600 Caluma LED Force 75W (grow-guru.com)...


Delps8 say the vipaspectra xs150 pro is top?????? i say she is trash! 249 euro regular now 199 euro becoose noone buy it like i say, and i quarantee is not better then my caluma 150 watt for 249euro maybe 25%-35% worse VIPARSPECTRA XS1500 Pro LED Grow Lampe,Pflanzenlampe LED Vollspektrum,Neue Gen Linsen LED Grow Light mit Daisy-Chain 4 Levels Dimmen 0-100% Für Zimmerpflanzen Gemüse Blüte für Growzelt 90x90cm 60x60cm: Amazon.de: Garten


and the youtubers just say what the sponsor will hear for sponsoring and after video they maybe use other lights ha ha ha....


my light = caluma led force 150 watt:
IMG_20240720_011757.jpg
IMG_20240720_011816.jpg
Caluma LED Force 150W
The Caluma LED Force 150W is an inexpensive grow lamp that impresses with its decent light output and functional features. This gives you full control over your grow, but doesn't put a hole in your wallet.

The Caluma Force 150 W has an integrated dimmer in its driver so that you can precisely regulate the lighting situation. This allows you to adjust the light intensity to the needs of your favorite plants from the young plant to the finished fruit and grow healthier plants.

With the Caluma Force 150W you get a PPF of 375 µmol/s from 150 watts of power, which means you can perfectly illuminate a growing area of up to 80 x 80 cm.

With its long lifespan of at least 50,000 operating hours and an efficiency of 2.5 µmol/J, the Caluma Force 150W is a long-lasting LED grow lamp that you can always use to illuminate your plants appropriately.

Intended use
All plant stages from cultivation to flowering
For smaller grow boxes up to 80 x 80 cm
Advantages of the Caluma LED Force 150W
Affordable price
Long lifespan with 50,000+ operating hours
Little waste heat & passive cooling (noiseless)
Plug & Play
Built-in dimmer
2x suspension included
Recommended additional products
Timer
So that you can set the length of the lighting phases for your plants, you should control each grow lamp with a timer. If a slight humming noise doesn't bother you, then you can boldly use an analog timer. There are now also digital models that can be set even more precisely, so that you can set your switching time to a specific time.
Multiple socket
If you want to operate several lamps, we recommend purchasing a multiple socket. This way you avoid unnecessary cable clutter and always keep an overview.
Technical details
Power:
150 watts
Distance from plant:
25 - 35 cm
Type:
Full spectrum LED panel
Dimensions:
38 x 38 x 7 cm
Service life:
50,000 operating hours
Cooling:
Passive cooling
PPF:
375 µmol/s
Efficiency:
2.7 µmol/J
LED assembly:
Seoul SMD2835
Seoul SMD3535
Beam angle:
120°
Protection class:
IP65 standard
Weight:
2.8 kg
Scope of delivery
Caluma LED Force 150W
IEC cable
LED driver
Hanging system
Operating instructions
 
Last edited:

Sly Lycan

Member
Sorry for delays life has been quite hectic. I think I may try to just leave the plants in vege to sort some stuff out, possibly move them outside once the weather cools enough that they won't alight in flames.

According to the manufacturer, those lights will use 252 watts to generate a PPFD of 181µmol across a 2'x 4'. Cannabis will survive above 64µmol with seedlings generally being given 150-300 and then 500 in veg and up to 1000 in flower.
[...]
Question on this, where do you get the 2x4? Also the description of that says its 181 umol per light, which is 42 watts does it not? Just trying to clarify and learn what exactly to look for in the lights.
Appreciate the information, especially a lot of the info graphics. Doesn't look like I can easily get the caluma lights here however.
 
Last edited:

Sly Lycan

Member
Would 2 MarsHydro TSL 2000 work well for lighting up the tent? I know it won't cover the full thing but I should be able to squish them together to make it work.

Also was looking at a TS3000 from them.

Trying to find a list of possibilities that would be good to keep an eye out for.

Edit:
After some research these are the ones I am looking at. thinking the TS3000 for now with potential upgrade to one of the LM301H EVO lights.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Delps8

Well-Known Member
Question on this, where do you get the 2x4? Also the description of that says its 181 umol per light, which is 42 watts does it not? Just trying to clarify and learn what exactly to look for in the lights.
That was in the Amazon description. IIRC, I was able to get to Amazon from graphics that were in your posting. The graphics are no longer there so perhaps it was another thread.

My recollection is that the lights generated 181µmol and the string of lights was suited for a 2' x 4' grow area. I don't have that URL in my History here on my work computer so I can't check it.

I tried a similar looking light as a light for seedlings and their light cast is very narrow, to the point that the PPFD across the 2' x 4' area is quite limited.
 

Sly Lycan

Member
That was in the Amazon description. IIRC, I was able to get to Amazon from graphics that were in your posting. The graphics are no longer there so perhaps it was another thread.

My recollection is that the lights generated 181µmol and the string of lights was suited for a 2' x 4' grow area. I don't have that URL in my History here on my work computer so I can't check it.

I tried a similar looking light as a light for seedlings and their light cast is very narrow, to the point that the PPFD across the 2' x 4' area is quite limited.
Ah okay thanks. I'm still new to learning the lights and as with those Monios ones, I obviously misunderstood quite a bit. I thought by adding more, it would increase the lighting, which it did, but not to the extent I thought it would. The highest reading with how I spread them out was only at 240~ umol. :(

Do you mind if I ask what lights you use? I think I may end up just splurging and going with one of the LM301H EVO lights because that would be my ultimate upgrade. I can only base that though on what I know and I haven't found a ton of other decent looking lights for a decent value. I know you mentioned the ViparSpectra XS1500, but I could only find those for $130~. They also appear to be 150 watts. How many would you use if you were to try and get full coverage of the tent? I think 4 would be good. For that size of light they do seem to be some of the most uniform and powerful at the edge lights I have come across.
 

amneziaHaze

Well-Known Member
For a big twnt i would go with a diy you buy some L aluminium or even better ribbed but price is a lot higher. And some bridgelux leds one meanwell driver and you are ready.you get super strong quality lights for low price
 

Sly Lycan

Member
Save your money and buy a real light and then you are done. The question is, do you want to light up the whole 5x5 or just an area in it.
What do you consider a real light?

For a big twnt i would go with a diy you buy some L aluminium or even better ribbed but price is a lot higher. And some bridgelux leds one meanwell driver and you are ready.you get super strong quality lights for low price
How would you even begin making your own light? I also don't think I have the supplies and tools to do so. I worry it would end up costing as much to just buy a new light after I purchase everything to make it.
 

amneziaHaze

Well-Known Member
What do you consider a real light?


How would you even begin making your own light? I also don't think I have the supplies and tools to do so. I worry it would end up costing as much to just buy a new light after I purchase everything to make it.
You can order aluminium poles with holes and some screws.then glue the strips with termal glue.it helps transfer heat.you solder 2 wires to the light and 2 more to next light done.its really simple there is a whole tread 150 pages talking about it.and some people there will do calculationa for you when they have time.
In theory you could build a 3g/w light
 
Top