Bluejeans
Well-Known Member
Ohhh, I like! Hmmm.... this just keeps getting better...Different sizes and costs, you can keep them in your kitchen or pantry they don't smell at all.
http://www.allthingsorganic.com/Products/worm-factory.asp
Grandma's Growing Again
- Thread starter Bluejeans
- Start date
MomaPug
Active Member
I have two brands I like. I add when transplanting during veg, so use one the first transplant and the other the second. They are close, but each has a little something the other doesn't. I also re-use soil so I should already have a nice balance. The first is Roots Organics "OREGONISMXL" http://www.aurorainnovations.org/oregonism_xl.html it's a powder and you put it in the pot where your roots will be when transplanting, same for the second.....ZHO root inoculate http://americanagritech.com/biologicals/zho-root-inoculant
woodsmaneh!
Well-Known Member
The worm castings you buy from the shops has all been screened and is just the poop, but all you need to do is find a place that rases worms and go direct to the source for them and ask for un-screened castings. That way you get the worm cocoons, eggs!!! so when you top dress you also plant worm eggs. If you have trouble finding the real thing visit some bate shops and ask where they get there worms. Big operations don't like to sell castings like this.
MomaPug
Active Member
What? He wouldn't appreciate a tupperware worm farm under the bed? lolHa! Mr. Bluejeans will totally wig...
Bluejeans
Well-Known Member
He is squirmy like a girl about stuff like that...
MomaPug
Active Member
I been playing with worms since I was a kid. Don't like spiders though, don't kill them either as they eat bugsHe is squirmy like a girl about stuff like that...
I did learn how to deal with my kids tarantulas, but they can't run off and hide...I think that is what bothers me about spiders...sneaky and fast 
I once read that we are never more than a foot away from a spider at any time...like under the floor and in the corner of the ceiling.
woodsmaneh!
Well-Known Member
OK just one more, don't want to show you everything I have on the first night, I'm not like that, he say's with a grin and a wink
sorry to lazy to post all the pics that go with it.
I get my Fungi and Microbe Armies here
http://www.fungi.com/mycogrow/amaranthus.html
Mycorrhizal Management
A look beneath the surface at plant establishment and growth, reprinted with
permission from the author.
Little things run the world. This is especially true when it comes to getting plants established. Under natural conditions plants live in close association with soil organisms called mycorrhizal fungi. These fungi colonize plant roots and extend the root system into the surrounding soil. (Figure 1.) Estimates of amounts of mycorrhizal filaments present in healthy soil are astonishing. Several miles of filaments can be present in less than a thimbleful of soil associated with vigorously growing plants. The relationship is beneficial because the plant enjoys improved nutrient and water uptake, disease resistance and superior survival and growth.
Nearly all commercially produced plants form mycorrhizae and require the association for maximum performance in outplanted environments. (Figure 2). This not-so-glorious association between plants and mycorrhizal fungi is fundamental to plant establishment and growth.
Depending on the environment in which they are growing, plants may divert up to 80% or more of the net energy fixed as sunlight to below-ground processes. Some of this energy goes into root growth; but, a high proportion may be used to feed mycorrhizal fungi and other soil organisms. This is not energy that is lost to the plant. On the contrary, soil organisms living in the root zone greatly influence the ability of plants to establish through effects on nutrient cycling, pathogens, soil aeration, and soil water uptake. Of the various soil organisms that benefit plant establishment, the most is known about mycorrhizal fungi. Roughly 90% of plant species are thought to form mycorrhizae: the combination of fungal and root tissue is called the mycorrhiza and the fungal partner is termed a mycorrhizal fungus.
Commercial production of mycorrhizal fungi for practical use has been available in the last decade, however, the importance of mycorrhizal fungi has been evident for some 400 million years. The earliest fossil records of the roots of land plants contain evidence of the fossil remains of mycorrhizal fungi. Scientists now believe that the "marriage" of mycorrhizal fungus and plant played an essential role in the evolutionary step which brought aquatic plants from sea to land. At some point in the evolutionary process, a filament penetrated into the outer cells of a primitive plant root. Once there, it accommodated itself so nicely that a new, more complex entity emerged, the mycorrhiza. The increased absorbing area provided by an elaborate system of fungal filaments allowed aquatic plants to leave the marine environment and exploit a relatively harsh soil environment. In today's man-made environments plants can be greatly stressed and the relationship between fungus and root is critical. Unnatural conditions such as concrete, asphalt, roadsides, sidewalk cut outs, trenching, drain fields, air pollution, shopping malls, business districts, and suburban developments adversely effect the presence and abundance of mycorrhizal fungi.
Man-made environments often suffer from compaction, top soil loss, and the absence of quality organic matter, conditions which reduce the habitat necessary for the mycorrhizal fungus to survive and thrive (Figure 3). Artificial landscapes effect the mycorrhizal relationship in two fundamental ways. First, they isolate the plant from beneficial mycorrhizal fungi available in natural settings and, secondly, they increase plant stress and the need for water, nutrients, and soil structure mediated by their below-ground "partners".
Fortunately, recent advancements in mycorrhizal research and application have made landscape applications with mycorrhiza easy and inexpensive. New products and knowledge result in increased transplant survival and lower long-term maintenance. However, to be successful the landscape contractor requires an appreciation of fungi beyond itchy toes and moldy bread.
How do mycorrhizal fungi work?
Mycorrhizal root systems increase the absorptive the absorbing area of roots 10 to 1000 times thereby greatly improving the ability of the plants to utilize the soil resource. (Figure 4). Mycorrhizal fungi are able to absorb and transfer all of the 15 major macro and micro nutrients necessary for plant growth. Mycorrhizal fungi release powerful chemicals into the soil that dissolve hard to capture nutrients such as phosphorous, iron and other "tightly bound" soil nutrients. This extraction process is particularly important in plant nutrition and explains why non mycorrhizal plants require high levels of fertility to maintain their health. Mycorrhizal fungi form an intricate web that captures and assimilates nutrients conserving the nutrient capital in soils. In non mycorrhizal conditions much of this fertility is wasted or lost from the system.
Mycorrhizal fungi are involved with a wide variety of other activities that benefit plant establishment and growth. The same extensive network of fungal filaments important to nutrient uptake are also important in water uptake and storage. In non-irrigated conditions, mycorrhizal plants are under far less drought stress compared to non mycorrhizal plants. In a recent study, true fir seedlings treated with mycorrhizal inoculum had 43 percent less plant moisture stress than non-treated control seedlings on a droughty, difficult to revegetate site. Tree vigor, color and needle retention were improved with the mycorrhizal treated plants (Figure 5). Rhizopogon mycorrhizae were abundant on the roots systems of the treated plants (Figure 6). Numerous studies have shown Rhizopogon spp. is an aggressive colonizer in non-irrigated and harsh field conditions.
Disease and pathogen suppression is another benefit for a mycorrhizal plant. Mycorrhizal roots have a mantle (a tight, interwoven sock-like covering of dense filaments) that acts as a physical barrier against the invasion of root diseases. In addition, mycorrhizal fungi attack pathogen or disease organisms entering the root zone. For example, excretions of specific antibiotics produced by mycorrhizal fungi immobilize and kill disease organisms. Some mycorrhizal fungi protect pine trees from Phytophora, Fusarium and Rhizoctonia diseases. In a recent University study, pine trees were purposefully inoculated with the common disease organism- Fusarium. Over 90% of the pine trees died. Only the pine trees inoculated with the mycorrhizal fungus Rhizopogon survived. Survival rates for Rhizopogon treated pines exceeded 95%.
Mycorrhizal fungi also improve soil structure. Mycorrhizal filaments produce humic compounds and organic "glues" (extracellular polysaccharides) that bind soils into aggregates and improves soil porosity.
Soil porosity and soil structure positively influence the growth of plants by promoting aeration, water movement into soil, root growth, and distribution. In sandy or compacted soils the ability of mycorrhizal fungi to promote soil structure may be more important than the seeking out of nutrients.
Does my soil already contain mycorrhizal fungi?
Soils in natural settings are full of beneficial soil organisms including mycorrhizal fungi. Research indicates, however, many common practices can degrade the mycorrhiza-forming potential of soil. Tillage, fertilization, removal of topsoil, erosion, site preparation, road and home construction, fumigation, invasion of non native plants, and leaving soils bare are some of the activities that can reduce or eliminate these beneficial soil fungi. In many man-made landscapes we have reduced or eliminated the soil organisms necessary for plants to function without high levels of maintenance.
Nursery grown plants available to landscape contractors are often deficient in mycorrhizae. Plants raised in most nurseries receive intensive care and feeding. The artificial conditions, high levels of water and nutrients and sterile soils at the nursery keep certain soil born diseases to a minimum and produce vast quantities of plants for sale. Unfortunately, the high levels of water and nutrients and the lack of mycorrhizae discourage the plant to produce the extensive root system it will need for successful transplantation. The result are plants poorly adapted to the eventual outplanted condition that must be weaned from intensive care systems and begin to fend for themselves. Application of mycorrhizal inoculum during transplanting can encourage plant establishment and set the plant on track to feed for itself. Research studies document the need of plants to generate a mycorrhizal roots system in order to become established. Maintaining intensive inputs is necessary until the extensive root system is achieved . There are practical solutions to some of the mycorrhizal deficiencies in man-made environments and reintroducing mycorrhizal fungi in areas where they have been depleted can dramatically improve plant establishment and growth.
What types of mycorrhizal products are available?
A landscape contractor can enhance plant root growth and transplant success and ameliorate many problems that result from intensive care practices at the nursery. Plants grew and thrived on this planet for millions of years without intensive care. Nature provides the template. A more sustainable approach to plant establishment and growth includes using mycorrhizal fungi.
Certain mycorrhizal spores or "seeds" of the fungus have been selected for their establishment and growth-enhancing abilities. The goal is to create physical contact between the mycorrhizal inoculant and the plant root. Mycorrhizal inoculant can be sprinkled onto roots during transplanting, worked into seed beds, blended into potting soil, watered in via existing irrigation systems, applied as a root dip gel or probed into the root zone of existing plants. The type of application depends upon the conditions and needs of the applicator. Generally, mycorrhizal application is easy, inexpensive and requires no special equipment. Typically for small plants the cost ranges from less than a penny to a few cents per seedling. For larger plants more inoculum is needed and costs are higher.
Mycorrhizal products often contain other ingredients designed to increase the effectiveness of the mycorrhizal spores. For example, organic matter is often added to encourage microbial activity , soil structure and root growth. Stress vitamins improve nutrient uptake and builds root biomass. Water absorbing gels help "plaster" beneficial mycorrhizal spores in close proximity to feeder roots and encourage favorable soil moisture conditions for mycorrhizae to form and grow. Organic biostimulants, in general are effective ingredients in mycorrhizal products. By promoting field competitiveness, stress resistance and nutrient efficiency biostimulants reduce barriers for rapid mycorrhizal formation especially during the critical period following transplanting.
Mycorrhizal diversity is important
Natural areas generally contain an array of mycorrhizal fungal species. The proportions and abundance of mycorrhizal species often shifts following any disturbance. Not all mycorrhizal fungi have the same capacities and tolerances. Some are better at imparting drought resistance while others may be more effective in protecting against pathogens or have more tolerance to soil temperature extremes. Because of the wide variety of soil, climatic, and biotic conditions characterizing man-made environments, it is improbable that a single mycorrhizal fungus could benefit all host species and adapt to all conditions. For example, the types and activities of mycorrhizal fungi associated with young plants may be quite different from those associated with mature plants Likewise, mycorrhizal fungi needed to help seedlings establish themselves on difficult sites may differ from those which sustain productivity over a long-lived plant.
Diversity likely provides a buffering capacity not found on sites with only one or few species. The diversity of mycorrhizal fungi formed by a given plant may increase its ability to occupy diverse below-ground niches and survive a range of chemical and physical conditions.
Conclusions
The lack of mycorrhizal fungi on plant root systems is a leading cause of poor plant establishment and growth in a variety of forest, restoration, agricultural, suburban and urban landscapes. As we develop holistic approaches to understanding man-made environments we must factor in the inseparable connections to soil organisms. Mycorrhizal fungi are one of the more important groups of soil organisms and play a critical role in nutrient cycling, mediating plant stress and protecting against pathogens. They are also cornerstones in the ability of plants to survive transplant shock . Plants have co-evolved mutualistic relationships with symbiotic mycorrhizal fungi such that their survival and fitness depends upon the healthy functioning of these fungi and vice versa. Just as plants invest tremendous capital in the form of energy to fuel below-ground soil organisms, so too we must "look below the surface " to understand and utilize these beneficial fungi.
Dr. Mike Amaranthus spent 20 years with Oregon State University and the USDA Forest Service where he authored over 50 research papers on mycorrhizae. He is a recipient of the USDA Department of Agriculture Highest Honors Award for scientific achievement and has been featured on several major national and international television programs.
sorry to lazy to post all the pics that go with it.
I get my Fungi and Microbe Armies here
http://www.fungi.com/mycogrow/amaranthus.html
Mycorrhizal Management
A look beneath the surface at plant establishment and growth, reprinted with
permission from the author.
|
| Figure 1 An electron micrograph of a mycorrhiza on an evergreen seedling. Mycorrhizal filaments radiate into the soil from the mycorrhiza root tip. |
|
| Figure 2 Maple (Acer spp.) seedling root systems. The seedling on the right was treated with a mycorrhizal root dip gel. The maple seedling on the left was an untreated control. |
Depending on the environment in which they are growing, plants may divert up to 80% or more of the net energy fixed as sunlight to below-ground processes. Some of this energy goes into root growth; but, a high proportion may be used to feed mycorrhizal fungi and other soil organisms. This is not energy that is lost to the plant. On the contrary, soil organisms living in the root zone greatly influence the ability of plants to establish through effects on nutrient cycling, pathogens, soil aeration, and soil water uptake. Of the various soil organisms that benefit plant establishment, the most is known about mycorrhizal fungi. Roughly 90% of plant species are thought to form mycorrhizae: the combination of fungal and root tissue is called the mycorrhiza and the fungal partner is termed a mycorrhizal fungus.
Commercial production of mycorrhizal fungi for practical use has been available in the last decade, however, the importance of mycorrhizal fungi has been evident for some 400 million years. The earliest fossil records of the roots of land plants contain evidence of the fossil remains of mycorrhizal fungi. Scientists now believe that the "marriage" of mycorrhizal fungus and plant played an essential role in the evolutionary step which brought aquatic plants from sea to land. At some point in the evolutionary process, a filament penetrated into the outer cells of a primitive plant root. Once there, it accommodated itself so nicely that a new, more complex entity emerged, the mycorrhiza. The increased absorbing area provided by an elaborate system of fungal filaments allowed aquatic plants to leave the marine environment and exploit a relatively harsh soil environment. In today's man-made environments plants can be greatly stressed and the relationship between fungus and root is critical. Unnatural conditions such as concrete, asphalt, roadsides, sidewalk cut outs, trenching, drain fields, air pollution, shopping malls, business districts, and suburban developments adversely effect the presence and abundance of mycorrhizal fungi.
|
| Figure 3 Construction sites typically compact the soil and remove organic matter and topsoil. These practices reduce or eliminate mycorrhizal fungi. |
Fortunately, recent advancements in mycorrhizal research and application have made landscape applications with mycorrhiza easy and inexpensive. New products and knowledge result in increased transplant survival and lower long-term maintenance. However, to be successful the landscape contractor requires an appreciation of fungi beyond itchy toes and moldy bread.
|
| Figure 4 "Cut-away" view of the root structure of conifer seedlings, enhanced and extended by a network of mycorrhizal filaments. |
Mycorrhizal root systems increase the absorptive the absorbing area of roots 10 to 1000 times thereby greatly improving the ability of the plants to utilize the soil resource. (Figure 4). Mycorrhizal fungi are able to absorb and transfer all of the 15 major macro and micro nutrients necessary for plant growth. Mycorrhizal fungi release powerful chemicals into the soil that dissolve hard to capture nutrients such as phosphorous, iron and other "tightly bound" soil nutrients. This extraction process is particularly important in plant nutrition and explains why non mycorrhizal plants require high levels of fertility to maintain their health. Mycorrhizal fungi form an intricate web that captures and assimilates nutrients conserving the nutrient capital in soils. In non mycorrhizal conditions much of this fertility is wasted or lost from the system.
Mycorrhizal fungi are involved with a wide variety of other activities that benefit plant establishment and growth. The same extensive network of fungal filaments important to nutrient uptake are also important in water uptake and storage. In non-irrigated conditions, mycorrhizal plants are under far less drought stress compared to non mycorrhizal plants. In a recent study, true fir seedlings treated with mycorrhizal inoculum had 43 percent less plant moisture stress than non-treated control seedlings on a droughty, difficult to revegetate site. Tree vigor, color and needle retention were improved with the mycorrhizal treated plants (Figure 5). Rhizopogon mycorrhizae were abundant on the roots systems of the treated plants (Figure 6). Numerous studies have shown Rhizopogon spp. is an aggressive colonizer in non-irrigated and harsh field conditions.
|
| Figures 5a & 5b Red fir seedlings (Abies magnifica) outplanted on a difficult to regenerate dry site. Seedling A was treated with a mycorrhizal inoculum; seedling B was not treated. Treated seedlings averaged 43% less moisture stress and 30% more needle retention. |
|
| Figure 6 A cluster of Rhizopogon mycorrhizae. A single root tip colonized by the Rhizopogon mycorrhizal fungus will branch into a densely packed coral-like accumulation of many root tips. |
Mycorrhizal fungi also improve soil structure. Mycorrhizal filaments produce humic compounds and organic "glues" (extracellular polysaccharides) that bind soils into aggregates and improves soil porosity.
Soil porosity and soil structure positively influence the growth of plants by promoting aeration, water movement into soil, root growth, and distribution. In sandy or compacted soils the ability of mycorrhizal fungi to promote soil structure may be more important than the seeking out of nutrients.
Does my soil already contain mycorrhizal fungi?
Soils in natural settings are full of beneficial soil organisms including mycorrhizal fungi. Research indicates, however, many common practices can degrade the mycorrhiza-forming potential of soil. Tillage, fertilization, removal of topsoil, erosion, site preparation, road and home construction, fumigation, invasion of non native plants, and leaving soils bare are some of the activities that can reduce or eliminate these beneficial soil fungi. In many man-made landscapes we have reduced or eliminated the soil organisms necessary for plants to function without high levels of maintenance.
Nursery grown plants available to landscape contractors are often deficient in mycorrhizae. Plants raised in most nurseries receive intensive care and feeding. The artificial conditions, high levels of water and nutrients and sterile soils at the nursery keep certain soil born diseases to a minimum and produce vast quantities of plants for sale. Unfortunately, the high levels of water and nutrients and the lack of mycorrhizae discourage the plant to produce the extensive root system it will need for successful transplantation. The result are plants poorly adapted to the eventual outplanted condition that must be weaned from intensive care systems and begin to fend for themselves. Application of mycorrhizal inoculum during transplanting can encourage plant establishment and set the plant on track to feed for itself. Research studies document the need of plants to generate a mycorrhizal roots system in order to become established. Maintaining intensive inputs is necessary until the extensive root system is achieved . There are practical solutions to some of the mycorrhizal deficiencies in man-made environments and reintroducing mycorrhizal fungi in areas where they have been depleted can dramatically improve plant establishment and growth.
What types of mycorrhizal products are available?
A landscape contractor can enhance plant root growth and transplant success and ameliorate many problems that result from intensive care practices at the nursery. Plants grew and thrived on this planet for millions of years without intensive care. Nature provides the template. A more sustainable approach to plant establishment and growth includes using mycorrhizal fungi.
Certain mycorrhizal spores or "seeds" of the fungus have been selected for their establishment and growth-enhancing abilities. The goal is to create physical contact between the mycorrhizal inoculant and the plant root. Mycorrhizal inoculant can be sprinkled onto roots during transplanting, worked into seed beds, blended into potting soil, watered in via existing irrigation systems, applied as a root dip gel or probed into the root zone of existing plants. The type of application depends upon the conditions and needs of the applicator. Generally, mycorrhizal application is easy, inexpensive and requires no special equipment. Typically for small plants the cost ranges from less than a penny to a few cents per seedling. For larger plants more inoculum is needed and costs are higher.
Mycorrhizal products often contain other ingredients designed to increase the effectiveness of the mycorrhizal spores. For example, organic matter is often added to encourage microbial activity , soil structure and root growth. Stress vitamins improve nutrient uptake and builds root biomass. Water absorbing gels help "plaster" beneficial mycorrhizal spores in close proximity to feeder roots and encourage favorable soil moisture conditions for mycorrhizae to form and grow. Organic biostimulants, in general are effective ingredients in mycorrhizal products. By promoting field competitiveness, stress resistance and nutrient efficiency biostimulants reduce barriers for rapid mycorrhizal formation especially during the critical period following transplanting.
Mycorrhizal diversity is important
Natural areas generally contain an array of mycorrhizal fungal species. The proportions and abundance of mycorrhizal species often shifts following any disturbance. Not all mycorrhizal fungi have the same capacities and tolerances. Some are better at imparting drought resistance while others may be more effective in protecting against pathogens or have more tolerance to soil temperature extremes. Because of the wide variety of soil, climatic, and biotic conditions characterizing man-made environments, it is improbable that a single mycorrhizal fungus could benefit all host species and adapt to all conditions. For example, the types and activities of mycorrhizal fungi associated with young plants may be quite different from those associated with mature plants Likewise, mycorrhizal fungi needed to help seedlings establish themselves on difficult sites may differ from those which sustain productivity over a long-lived plant.
Diversity likely provides a buffering capacity not found on sites with only one or few species. The diversity of mycorrhizal fungi formed by a given plant may increase its ability to occupy diverse below-ground niches and survive a range of chemical and physical conditions.
Conclusions
The lack of mycorrhizal fungi on plant root systems is a leading cause of poor plant establishment and growth in a variety of forest, restoration, agricultural, suburban and urban landscapes. As we develop holistic approaches to understanding man-made environments we must factor in the inseparable connections to soil organisms. Mycorrhizal fungi are one of the more important groups of soil organisms and play a critical role in nutrient cycling, mediating plant stress and protecting against pathogens. They are also cornerstones in the ability of plants to survive transplant shock . Plants have co-evolved mutualistic relationships with symbiotic mycorrhizal fungi such that their survival and fitness depends upon the healthy functioning of these fungi and vice versa. Just as plants invest tremendous capital in the form of energy to fuel below-ground soil organisms, so too we must "look below the surface " to understand and utilize these beneficial fungi.
Dr. Mike Amaranthus spent 20 years with Oregon State University and the USDA Forest Service where he authored over 50 research papers on mycorrhizae. He is a recipient of the USDA Department of Agriculture Highest Honors Award for scientific achievement and has been featured on several major national and international television programs.
jkahndb0
Well-Known Member
That was a fun 8 pages... (20 posts per)
I use a "Super" (Living Organic) Soil as well.. and just letting the water sit out for 24 hours isnt enough...
I add a Water Conditioner at 2 drops per Gallon..
It removes Chlorine and breaks The Chloramine Bond...
It also detoxifies heavy metals...
One bottle is like $5- at the Pet store and it will last you forever....
Other than that, Good Show Bj.....
I use a "Super" (Living Organic) Soil as well.. and just letting the water sit out for 24 hours isnt enough...
I add a Water Conditioner at 2 drops per Gallon..
It removes Chlorine and breaks The Chloramine Bond...
It also detoxifies heavy metals...
One bottle is like $5- at the Pet store and it will last you forever....
Other than that, Good Show Bj.....
karmas a bitch
Well-Known Member
U know jkahn I was gonna advise that.
Bluejeans
Well-Known Member
Great...thanks...now I'll be up all night! LOL...I been playing with worms since I was a kid. Don't like spiders though, don't kill them either as they eat bugs
I think I'll go smoke. I've found a disturbing side of myself what with all the "free" weed around suddenly. Not sure if it is attributable to my severe ADD or the quality of my weed or something in between, but this evening I found that I had three partially packed bowls (started but not finished), two partially packed bongs, and 2/3rds of a joint in the ashtray. Seems I can't finish anything.
Bluejeans
Well-Known Member
Thank you, I'll look into that tomorrow.
woodsmaneh!
Well-Known Member
I use RO water for my Hydro and well water for my dirt so I don't need to deal with the issue. Most of the people I advise live in the city so they need to deal with it and the drops make it easy and cheap. There are some other ways to deal with it and here is some info.
Beer and bong time, Peace
Municipal water supplies
Many indoor gardeners are reliant on municipal water supplies and have few other options for a better quality water source. It’s likely that some plant losses have and do occur as a result of some municipal water supplies, particularly in sensitive species and in water culture systems where there is no media to act as a buffer. On the other hand, many municipal water supplies are quite suitable and given that they have had organic matter and pathogens removed already, are a good deal as far as hydroponic systems go. Interestingly plants have rather different responses and requirements from a water supply than humans and this is where problems can occur. Municipal water treatment ensures that drinking water meets the World Health Organization (WHO) and EPA standards for mineral, chemical and biological contamination levels, making it generally very safe to drink and use. However, what is safe for us to drink may not be so good for plant growth, particularly when we consider many hydroponic systems are recirculating which allows build-up of unwanted contaminants in the plant root zone.
Recirculating solution culture systems such as NFT have less buffering capacity to water treatment chemical residues than organic media-based systems.
Water treatment options used by municipal suppliers change over time and hydroponic growers should be aware of the implications of these. Many years ago the main concern was the use of chlorine as a disinfection agent to destroy bacteria and human pathogens. Chlorine had the advantage in that it disinfected water effectively; however, residual chlorine in water sources, which could often be detected by smell, could be toxic to sensitive plants and where it built up in certain hydroponics systems. Also when chlorine reacts with organic matter it forms substances (trihalomethanes) which are linked to increased risk of cancer and other health problems. Chlorine was, however, quite easy to remove from water with the use of aeration or even just aging the water a few days before irrigating plants. In the 1990’s it was found that some organisms such as Cryptosporidium were resistant to chlorine and the resulting health issues from this meant that drinking water regulations were changed and alternative disinfection methods began to be used. These included use of ozone and UV light, chloramines (chlorine plus ammonia) and chlorine dioxide.
Filtration, flocculation, settling, UV and ozone used for water supply treatment are non-problematic as far as hydroponic systems go, as they leave no residue and are effective. However, use of chloramines and some of the other chemicals by municipal water treatment plants may still pose problems where high levels are regularly dosed into water supplies. Chloramines are much more persistent than chlorine and take a lot longer to dissipate from treated water, so gardeners who are concerned can use a couple of different treatment methods just as those with aquarium fish often choose to do. There are specifically designed activated carbon filters which can remove most of the chloramines in a domestic water supply and also dechloraminating chemical or water conditioners available in pet shops. Carbon filters must be of the correct type that have a high quality granular activated carbon and allow a longer contact time which is required for chloramines removal. Even then not every trace may be removed, but levels are lowered enough to prevent problems. Use of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is also used in the industry, and by laboratories to remove chloramines from water after they have done their disinfection job.
Chemicals are also added to drinking water to adjust its hardness or softness, pH and alkalinity. Water that is naturally acidic is corrosive to pipes and sodium hydroxide may be added to reduce this. Sodium is a contaminate we don’t need in hydroponic systems, but may be present at surprisingly high levels in certain water supplies. Domestic water softeners may also contaminate the water with sodium which is not seen as a problem for drinking, but can run amuck with a well balanced hydroponic system and sodium sensitive crop.
What water problems may look like
It’s extremely difficult to determine if something in the water supply is causing plant growth problems. Root rot pathogens may originate in water, but they can come from a number of sources, including fungal spores, blown in dust or brought in by insects. Mineral problems can be a little easier to trace if the water supply analysis is available to check levels of elements. Plant problems which may be caused by water treatment chemicals are difficult to diagnose as some plants are much more sensitive than others and the type of system also plays a role. Research studies have reported that chloramines in hydroponic nutrient solutions can cause growth inhibition and root browning in susceptible plants. One study reported that the critical chloramines amount at which lettuce plant growth was significantly inhibited was 0.18 mg Cl/g root fresh weight, however, the levels at which some other species would be damaged is as yet undetermined. Similar problems exist with the use of other water treatment chemicals; chlorine and hydrogen peroxide are good disinfection agents, but too much in the hydroponic nutrient will cause root damage and just what is a safe level is dependant on a number factors such as the level of organic loading in the system.
Hard water
Hard water is water that has a high mineral content, usually calcium and magnesium, with calcium present as calcium carbonate or calcium sulfate. Hard water can occur in wells and municipal sources and has a tendency to form hard lime scale on surfaces and equipment. A hard water supply is generally not a major problem for hydroponic gardens; calcium and magnesium are useful elements for plant uptake, however, high levels in the water can upset the balance of a nutrient solution making other ions less available. Commercial growers routinely use hard water supplies and adjust their nutrient formulation to take into account the Ca and Mg naturally occurring in the water and also adjust for any alkalinity problems with water acidification. Smaller growers can use one of the many excellent ‘hard water’ nutrient products on the market to get a similar effect.
Ground water – wells
Many commercial hydroponics growers use well water for hydroponic systems and adjust their nutrient formulations to suit the natural mineral content of their water supply. Smaller growers would be advised to find out what is in their well water source just to check for potential problems as water which has percolated through soils tends to pick up some minerals and in some areas, high levels of unwanted elements such as sodium or trace elements. Well water can also contain pathogens and may need treatment before use, although often it is just the mineral levels that need adjustment. Water from dams, lakes and springs is usually similar to well water, but can contain much higher levels of sediment, organic matter and fungal pathogen spores.
Rain water
Rain water collection can be a good way to bypass problems with municipal or well water in some areas; however, there are still some risks. Acid rain from industrial areas, sodium in coastal sites and high pathogen spore loads in agricultural areas can still occur. Generally rain water is low in minerals, but in the process of collection from roofs and other surfaces, can collect wind blown dust and fungal spores. While this is generally not a problem for healthy plants, rain water should be treated before use with young seedlings and clones where pathogens could infect sensitive tissue and open wounds.
Solutions to water quality problems
Organic material such as coconut fiber gives a greater buffering capacity for some water problems, including residues from chemical water treatments, than solution culture systems. Drain to waste media systems are also useful where the water supply contains unwanted elements such as sodium as these aren’t as susceptible to the accumulation that can occur where the solution is recirculated over a long period of time. Where problems with unwanted minerals and very hard water exist, frequent changing and replacement of the nutrient in the system can also be useful to keep things in balance. Water with a high alkalinity will need considerably more acid to keep the pH down to acceptable levels than water with low alkalinity; however, by acidifying the water first before making up a nutrient solution or adding to the reservoir, much less acid will need to be added to the system to adjust pH over time.
There are a range of other treatment options that indoor gardeners can use to improve the quality of their water supply. If pathogen contamination is an issue, slow sand filtration is one of the most effective methods, although perhaps not that practical for those with limited space. Chemical disinfection methods for pathogen control include hydrogen peroxide, chlorine and other compounds, although care should be taken that most of the active chemical has dissipated before the water is used to make up the nutrient solution. Heat, distillation, reverse osmosis and UV treatment can all be used for pathogen control, with many small RO and UV treatment systems now on the market. UV filters for aquariums can be used for small hydroponic growers to treat water with good success, provided sufficient contact time is allowed. If excess minerals or unwanted elements such as sodium are present in a water supply, reverse osmosis (RO) or distillation can be used to remove these. Organic matter in ground water sources can be removed with settling and filtration and treatment with H2O2, while chemical contamination problems and removal of water treatment compounds are more easily treated with the correct type of activated carbon filter with a sufficient contact time.
Super-charged water for hydroponics
While it seems logical that pure, clean and demineralized water is the best place to start when making up a hydroponic nutrition solution, the possibility of creating a water source that has certain benefits for plants is a relatively new concept. Water is not just a carrier for essential nutrient ions, the nutrient solution becomes a whole biological system in its own right with organic matter, root exudates, various species of microbes including fungi, bacteria and their by-products (both good and bad), beneficial and unwanted mineral elements and a range of ‘additives’ growers may be using. Some studies have found that inexplicable growth increases could be obtained using certain ground water sources compared to rain or RO (essentially pure) water to make up a hydroponic nutrient solution indicating there may be natural factors in such waters which have benefits. Not all ground water sources have this effect; in fact, some can have negative influences on plant growth. Furthermore, another essential plant nutrient – oxygen in dissolved form - is usually present in water supplies; however, some water treatment processes can drive much of the dissolved oxygen (DO) out of a water source. In theory it would be possible to not only remove those things in the water we don’t want – pathogen spores, unwanted minerals, chemical residues from water treatment - but to also ‘boost’ the water with useful properties such as a high DO content, a population of useful and disease suppressant microbes and some natural and potentially beneficial minerals and compounds. One way of achieving this would be with the use of slow sand filters or mineral filters for water supplies which are inoculated with beneficial microbes and with oxygenation of the water for a few days before making up nutrient solutions or topping up reservoirs. Further down the track we may see quicker and easier methods of ‘supercharging’ water for hydroponic systems, taking water quality to a whole new level of science.
Chlorine Gas:
This highly reactive halogen gas is volatile enough that can be easily detected by its odor, especially in the shower or when aerating faucets are used. This is one of chlorine’s short-comings as a disinfectant: It off-gases (volatilizes) from exposed water. Hobbyists have made good use of this effect for many years. Chlorinated tap water, especially drawn through an aerating faucet, will off-gas and effectively lose all its chlorine to the atmosphere within days. Some growers may not fully understand the off-gassing process and may not use the most effective setup for off-gassing. The best process is an open-top container with a power head or pump to circulate the water, or even just an air stone. This obviously calls for a relatively large container, but it also means that fewer containers are needed, as the circulation greatly enlarges the effective surface area for off-gassing. Exposed surface area is critical. The best situation without circulation in theory could be shallow trays with large surface exposed to room air, but that is impractical in application – it would be very messy and require large amounts of space. Buckets are acceptable, but not overfilled, please. If bottles must be used, do not fill past the shoulder (where the bottle starts narrowing) – this will allow the largest possible surface exposure. I used 45gal tanks or food-safe plastic tubs (trash can scale), both with pumps and heaters, open-topped. I have never detected residual chlorine after 24 hours operation in these, but allowed 48 hours for safety and to remove the requirement for routine testing. Static containers may or may not be safe to use after just 24 hours. Most, with good surface area exposed, will be after 48 hours, but this is best confirmed by test. If after you have found the required time for off-gassing, then you can add a bit more to ensure removal and no longer routinely test so long as the utility does not change the concentration. We no longer have hobby liquid tests for chlorine or chloramine, but must rely on swimming pool tests.
If you do not have the space and time to off-gas chlorinated water, there are many products available which will “neutralize” the dissolved chlorine. The active ingredient historically was sodium thiosulfate, and it is still highly effective for this use. This material captures any free dissolved chlorine gas and coverts the elemental chlorine (Cl2 dissolved gas) to the chloride ion (Cl-) which is harmless at those concentrations. The reaction is rapid. Just add the recommended amount, stir very briefly and add to the reservoir.
With dissolved chlorine gas disinfectant, there is only one job to be done, and it can be accomplished in two ways: Remove the chlorine gas (off-gassing), or inactivate it (chemical conversion to the chloride ion by thiosulfate). These are simple and straightforward.
Chloramines:
The growing situation with chloramines is more complex and demanding. We cannot efficiently off-gas chloramines, so the simplest solution with chlorine does not apply at all. We equally cannot use just thiosulfate – it does not do enough. There are 3 separate and distinct jobs, all of which must be done to ensure the safety of chloraminated water for use in our reservoir:
1. Break the chloramine-ammonia bond. Thiosulfate alone can do this at about the same dosage used for chlorine-only disinfectant.
2. Convert the freed dissolved gas chlorine (Cl2) to chloride ion (Cl-). Thiosulfate again can do this as well; at about the same dosage as before, so double the chlorine-only dose can do both of these two jobs well.
3. Lock the freed ammonia dissolved gas (NH3) into the ammonium ion (NH4+) form (which is usable by the nitrification bacteria). The former is toxic; the concentration may only be high enough to damage the plants, or can be high enough to kill them. Thiosulfate alone is useless for this job, regardless of the dosage. Thiosulfate has no effect whatsoever on dissolved ammonia gas. Bummer! We must use newer and specialized agents which specify on the bottle that they do each and all of the three jobs required.
There are a number of commercial products which specify in print that they “destroy” (or other terms to that effect) chloramines. That is valid even if the only active agent is thiosulfate – it does break the chlorine-ammonia bond which defines chloramine, so technically the chloramine is no longer there. Does that mean the water so treated is safe to use? No, it definitely does not. The freed chlorine gas must be converted to chloride ion, but as with the bond breaking, thiosulfate can do that as well, and is cheap and safe - so double the chlorine-only dose and cover the freed chlorine as well. Is the water now safe to use in the reservoir tank? No, unfortunately not. It still has all the ammonia released floating around at hazardous levels. If the product does not specify that it locks the ammonia into the harmless ammonium ion form, or at least notes that it “neutralizes” both the chlorine and the ammonia released, we have to assume it does not do this – commercial products never claim less that they do. “Destroying” chloramine is required, but is not sufficient. This is a key point, do not be misled. Both of the freed dissolved gases must be “neutralized” to make the water safe. This is where the marketing wizards take advantage of the chemically and biologically naïve. You do have to both read and understand the fine print, or you could kill your fish. Strictly as an FYI, yes, I have killed fish that way. I will not do that again. Specialized agents are available which do the whole job – break the chloramine bond and convert both freed toxic gases to harmless ions. Unfortunately, this is another situation where you cannot trust your local fish store, nor the chains, or mail-order houses. They quite likely do not understand the chemistry themselves. You need to ask on-line for suggestions of brands which do all the necessary jobs reliably, or search the manufacturer’s site for detailed information – if they do not clearly state that all three tasks are done, that product is not suitable.
There is another complication with post-chloraminated water. It still reads positive for ammonia on most hobby test kits. Read the information on your test kit for ammonia. If it specifies that it reads “total ammonia nitrogen” (or TAN), you will see positives with your test after using a good anti-chloramines agent. These are not false positives. They are real and valid, but do not necessarily indicate a hazard to your fish – which the kit instructions historically have listed as hazardous. Remember that ammonium ion (NH4+) is harmless, only ammonia dissolved gas (NH3) is dangerous, just as was the case for chlorine gas versus the ion form. The effective anti-chloramine agents lock all free ammonia gas into the ammonium ion form – which is harmless. The problem is that our 20th century tests are no longer adequate in this century. There are tests available which read only free ammonia (NH3), but to me they are not yet user-friendly. Technology changes rapidly these days, hopefully more user-friendly but adequate test kits will available soon. Until then, we must use the proper dose of an effective agent and rely on it working, or prescreen with difficult-to-use tests.
For what it is worth, I use Seachem’s “Prime” for chloramines, and “Genesis” for chlorine-only.
References:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorination
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloramine
3. http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw000/disinfectio … index.html
4. http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disin … lorine.htm
5. http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disin … amines.htm
MomaPug
Active Member
"three partially packed bowls (started but not finished), two partially packed bongs, and 2/3rds of a joint in the ashtray"
Oh, is this unusual? Sounds like normal behavior to me
lol
Bluejeans
Well-Known Member
Well it's unusual for me.... when you pay $50 for an 1/8th, you finish every drop! LOL"three partially packed bowls (started but not finished), two partially packed bongs, and 2/3rds of a joint in the ashtray"
Oh, is this unusual? Sounds like normal behavior to me
Bluejeans
Well-Known Member
Time for a little mini-update.
Here's a group shot and hopefully one of the last few pics of the CFL's.
This is one of the Strawberry Kiss clones. This one is much more compact and tighter than the other. Not sure why since they are both clones of the same mother.
And this is their mother, Strawberry Kiss (a.k.a. Alice 2)
And introducing...
O.G. Kush and Pineapple Chunk. OG popped up yesterday and PC the day before.
Here's a group shot and hopefully one of the last few pics of the CFL's.
This is one of the Strawberry Kiss clones. This one is much more compact and tighter than the other. Not sure why since they are both clones of the same mother.
And this is their mother, Strawberry Kiss (a.k.a. Alice 2)
And introducing...
O.G. Kush and Pineapple Chunk. OG popped up yesterday and PC the day before.
Evolutionz
Member
50$ for an 8th............................................................... fuck that fucking shit.
I thoroughly enjoyed this, up until sesame street fucked my eyes up with that lesson on water.
I thoroughly enjoyed this, up until sesame street fucked my eyes up with that lesson on water.
Bluejeans
Well-Known Member
Now, now, play nice...and welcome to the thread!