NewGrower2011
Well-Known Member
The micronized mixed very easily and didn't have any clumping - the other goodies I tossed in after, not so much. 
Good ole' trial & error... On the error side again; What went wrong with this soil batch?
- Thread starter NewGrower2011
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MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
What stage of growth are you on, flower or veg? If your not in flower, you could foliar feed micro-nutrients to help them recover faster. Micros are not very mobile in the plant, so a soil drench will take a while to work. If your already in flower, it might be too late for a soil drench? I've heard of people using liquid kelp and putting it ONLY on the fan leaves on flowering plants, I think that you can make it from kelp meal. You don't want to get your buds wet...The micronized mixed very easily and didn't have any clumping - the other goodies I tossed in after, not so much.
Here is a blackberry plant that was grown with low micros.
I foliar fed and soil drenched with Fertilome's Iron and Micro... It's the same plant, just new growth about 4-5 weeks later.
NewGrower2011
Well-Known Member
Yeah veg still so that's an option. May even have it at my local gardening store and avoid the jacked up costs at 'hydro stores'... Definitely wouldn't hurt to give a good foliar before the flip.
Leaf spot is common in plants with low access to micros. Often caused by under, over or irregular watering in high heat. You can also fix leaf spot by foliar treating with bacillus subtilis. Oh and Bacillus subtilis is a siderophore so chelates Iron so effective against Fusarium in many instances. I will caveat this against anyone using pseudomonas fluorescens based products such as mammoth P, since it is known that this microbe is recruited by Fusarium to detoxify common anti-fungicides and or inhibit bacterial activity otherwise preventing infection.
You might also use Humic Acid to chelate Fe and other micros
Anyway good recovery.
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
I'm getting the dictionary out now...
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
Depending on who you ask, there are different treatments. Some of the hippies will tell you to use SEA90 which is evaporated sea salt. The person that told me about it suggested to use it as a foliar spray, I'm guessing because of the Na.
https://www.amazon.com/Root-Naturally-Mineral-Organic-Fertilizer/dp/B00WKP1EIA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1535850578&sr=8-1&keywords=sea90
I came across chelated minerals while listening to podcasts. This one would be similar to Fertilome. I'm probably going to try this one out myself. I like the idea of sea salt, but my test results have came back high in Na. Also, the word chelated means to add amino acid to a metal ion like Zn, Mn, Cu, and Fe. I thought that it was something from a factory. From what I understand, chelated elements will not get locked up so quickly and will stay bio-available longer in the soil. I'm not telling you what to do, just helping with options. More than one way to skin a cat, right... It's $30, but it is also a gallon of concentrate. I think that a quart will treat a whole acre.
https://www.kisorganics.com/products/biomin-booster-153?variant=5342921097252
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
After I do my homework and figure out what you are talking about lol...
Just off the top of my head though, it sounds a lot like adding it to a tea brew with fish hydrolysate and compost??? Are you saying that I could add Mn and Fe sulfate to my tea brew?
Organic acids, such as Humic Acid, help mobilize metals among other cool features. Chelate means to claw, so to grab an Fe ion from a hermatite based compound for example. This hermatite being common in the red soil pictures above. Once its Chelated it is less volatile and more readily available to plants or microbes.
yes you can add your mineral salts to a tea, but be gentle.
One thing to note about teas, much of the beneficial enzymes already live and die in the brew, this is also why say Kelp meal is more effective than Kelp liquid feeds. Eg the sum total happens in the soil, not lost in water before its applied
Growitpondifarm
Well-Known Member
I’ve been using the biomin product from KIS. I had a nasty iron deficiency and this stuff has kept it at bay. I’ve watered it in at a tbsp per half a buck of water, I had to guess on application rates because the application rates that came on the bottle are for /acreage. So far I don’t see any I’ll effects from the tbsp/2 gallons or so, if anyone is going to use it.
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
I've had it in my checkout cart for the last couple of days and I really think that I am going to use it. I've used a generous amount of rock dust and my calcium and magnesium levels are super high. When I use a generous amount of kelp, my sodium get really high. Plus, rock dust and kelp really have not given me a boost in micros... Anyways, here is the podcast that I heard about the product from. It's episode #6.
https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/podcast
dont forget adding rock dust or excess Ca++ can speed up the Oxidation of organics
NewGrower2011
Well-Known Member
Coming back around on this thread - about 4 weeks after flip and I've got massive yellowing starting from bottom moving to top; the leaves look to be yellowing from the outside-in with green fading out but for a while there is still green in the veins. Brownish/reddish spots in some cases. Otherwise flowering and progressing up until that onset and now it's still progressing but I have to wonder if stunted/slower than should be.
Definitely got something going wrong here; Way earlier yellowing than I've had before. Going to refer to the various pics/descriptions of toxicity/deficiency signs & symptoms but thought I'd return here and see what the Organics crew has to say first given the soil/organic nature of this.
Definitely got something going wrong here; Way earlier yellowing than I've had before. Going to refer to the various pics/descriptions of toxicity/deficiency signs & symptoms but thought I'd return here and see what the Organics crew has to say first given the soil/organic nature of this.
OPfarmer
Well-Known Member
Interesting stuff from article.:
"Another important quality of the humates is their ability to bond iron and aluminum ions into complexes, since their excess amount in soil results in poor phosphorus nutrition of the plants.Iron forms complexes with the humates, which ensures its transportation to the plants, while aluminum creates insoluble compounds with the humates, which neutralizes damaging effect of aluminum on phosphates."
Goes to show you can be a successful farmer, by creating and maintaining health soil. (It then takes care of the plants.) One does not have to be a rocket scientist genius.
NewGrower2011
Well-Known Member
So a little above this guys reading level but I get the jist I think. So would a drench of humic acid (such as the TeraVita/RAW/similar on Amazon) help with things you think? I know it's late for any micros missing but could do a soil drench/tea otherwise if not too late.
I also let them get a little dryer than intended a few times/haven't automated watering yet so they've probably been under-watered a bit as another factor. Only 1 time (recent) that they showed signs of drooping from lack of water and when I do water I used r/o water and occassionally used fulvic, cannazyme and some mammoth along with a small dash of molasses but have kept those on the light side.
I also let them get a little dryer than intended a few times/haven't automated watering yet so they've probably been under-watered a bit as another factor. Only 1 time (recent) that they showed signs of drooping from lack of water and when I do water I used r/o water and occassionally used fulvic, cannazyme and some mammoth along with a small dash of molasses but have kept those on the light side.
NewGrower2011
Well-Known Member
Also, I'm not an organic 'purist' so if there's a good solution that isn't 100% organic I'm not adverse to it; not a deal-breaker for me. I do have Floralicious Plus on hand as well and used it maybe 2-3 times at low/medium dosing. (i.e. 1.5ml in 1gal then spread across 3 plants and watered in further w RO). If a tea would be the path, I have kelp meal (starting to get old) and other various amendments including worm castings (store bought I know I know) and some old chicken manure; The run-of-the-mill/usual suspects...
I checked out TeraVita vs NPK RAW - lmao - 1lbs of TeraVita SP-90 for $15... or 2oz NPK/RAW Humic for $15. Made that decision pretty freaking easy. 2lb prices the same story...
I'm sort of contemplating getting individual constituent items I can use selectively/as needed versus using some all-in-one like Recharge.
I checked out TeraVita vs NPK RAW - lmao - 1lbs of TeraVita SP-90 for $15... or 2oz NPK/RAW Humic for $15. Made that decision pretty freaking easy. 2lb prices the same story...
I'm sort of contemplating getting individual constituent items I can use selectively/as needed versus using some all-in-one like Recharge.
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Before you do anything, one quick question.
What do the buds and the small sugar leaves around the bud look like? Are they still green? Or, are they yellowing also?
If they are yellowing, you have a situation. If not, you are about to try and fix a problem that doesn't exist.
More than a few times I've lost every single large fan leaf to yellowing and yet the buds and sugar leaves remained green and developed as they should till chop. Running on the dry side can speed up the yellowing if they dry to drooping.
But, all in all, right now just pay attention to what the buds and sugar leaves are doing and ignore the larger fans and whatever they happen to be doing.
Wet
What do the buds and the small sugar leaves around the bud look like? Are they still green? Or, are they yellowing also?
If they are yellowing, you have a situation. If not, you are about to try and fix a problem that doesn't exist.
More than a few times I've lost every single large fan leaf to yellowing and yet the buds and sugar leaves remained green and developed as they should till chop. Running on the dry side can speed up the yellowing if they dry to drooping.
But, all in all, right now just pay attention to what the buds and sugar leaves are doing and ignore the larger fans and whatever they happen to be doing.
Wet
NewGrower2011
Well-Known Member
Mmmm some are yellowing and orangish/reddish tipped in some cases. I threw some RO and a handfull of ancient forest, cpl handfulls of casting and just a small pinch of kelp meal into a tea and started it bubbling just in case (can use elsewhere otherwise).
Other notable variables - I've been notoriously bad about letting plants sit in small amount of runoff (I use rubbermaid tubs for trays under each plant) and this time I elevated things. Also the MammothP is a new variable... And the big variable - the new soil batch of course.
This time I have same train as I've used for last couple runs; and a new one (2 from seed/cloned to see which one gets to live on!). So the same symptoms across them all might be a clue too.
Other notable variables - I've been notoriously bad about letting plants sit in small amount of runoff (I use rubbermaid tubs for trays under each plant) and this time I elevated things. Also the MammothP is a new variable... And the big variable - the new soil batch of course.
This time I have same train as I've used for last couple runs; and a new one (2 from seed/cloned to see which one gets to live on!). So the same symptoms across them all might be a clue too.
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OPfarmer
Well-Known Member
NG2011..
I was not commenting on your issue. Just on the humic Rich soils in general.
I don't have a good sense yet for your yellowing. Wet Dog seems to have ideas.
I too have lost all fan leaves but suger and bud remained green. Dry consumed soil was my reason. Plant is still finishing and is fine.
IHO Be careful and go real light with something simple
I was not commenting on your issue. Just on the humic Rich soils in general.
I don't have a good sense yet for your yellowing. Wet Dog seems to have ideas.
I too have lost all fan leaves but suger and bud remained green. Dry consumed soil was my reason. Plant is still finishing and is fine.
IHO Be careful and go real light with something simple