GOING OVERBOARD- First grow, first post- Journal 1

SC300drifter said:

I don't think I would run nutes in the cloner after reading on the subject, what ppm are you @ in your cloner?

My 450cfm fan barely changes temps more than 2 degrees when speeds are controlled from 30% to full, how much cooler can u get ur room if you turned your fan up to max?

I have read keeping your temp probe in direct light is the incorrect way to measure temps because of radiant heat... is your temp probe in direct light?

Click to expand...

1)I read the same thing. My two rooted ones are were almost solid yellow for days. After about 100ppm of nutes they greened up about 30% in about 2 days. Roots seem much bigger too. Problem is, I acutally dont have room for anything else now Everything right now is experimental.

2)Well Now that you have brought to light I have been measuring my temp incorrectly I dont know what I have been changing my AIR temp. I could try to explain my speed control settings but since I have two rooms with hoods being cooled in EACH room AND both intake AND exhaust for BOTH rooms are being run off a singe osberg 600(+?) cfm fan. Ill just say my adjustments are complicated. Right now I run the fan between 30-50% 24/0 and the temps have a 10* difference from all lights off to all lights on. It is imperitave I keep my speed control the same 24/0.

3)I didnt know I needed to control my air temp vs radiant temp. Now that I know (I remember you mentioning it before) I will switch it RIGHT NOW and start really knowing what my air temps are and how much my adjustments in speed/light height/oscilating air change my environment.

Heres a link I found to better explain what your talking about.

http://www.marijuana-ro.com/grow-faq/growroom-efficiency/how-do-i-measure-temperature-correctly.html
How do I measure temperature correctly?

You are here: Home » Grow FAQ » Growroom efficiency » How do I measure temperature correctly?
In order to know you are providing the right thermal environment for you plants through ventilation, oscillating fans etc. you need to understand the physical nature of the 'heat' in grow spaces, how it should be measured, and the mistakes that can easily be made.

Essentially there are two aspects to the thermal environment that you need to be aware of:

1. The AIR temperature
2. The RADIANT temperature

Although obviously related, these are 2 distinctly separate phenomena and your plants have different tolerances for each.


1. Air temperature

Your standard mercury/alcohol-bulb or digital thermometer is designed to measure the temperature of the air (But not radiant heat). This is what is being referred to in the usual growers 'rules of thumb' such as maintaining your grow above 16degC and below 30degC.

Most thermometers are only designed to measure air temperature – growers often mistakenly place their thermometer in direct light; radiant energy will warm your thermometer and give a higher than actual reading.

*Assuming your air is well mixed up by oscillating fans, it doesn’t really matter where you locate your thermometer. The best spot is probably about half the way up a wall, with a piece of cardboard over it (To shade it from radiant heat), exposed to the mixed air in the grow room.


2. Radiant temperature

Radiant temperature is the result of heat transfer bewteen objects at different temperatures without whats inbetween i.e. the air, being effected. In our case the plants are naturally at a lower temperature that the light and reflector so heat is transferred to the plants foliage from the light/refecltor through radiation. This causes the leaves to heat up. The plants can withstand much higher radiant temperatures (around 40-50degC) than they can air temperatures but if this is too high the plants can 'burn'.

The plants can withstand much higher radiant temperatures than they can air temperatures, but if this is too high the plants can “burn”.

'The hand test': Place your hand in a comfortable position for some time at the tips of your plants should be. If your hand feels “hot”, then the lights are too close, the radiant energy is too intense, and light burn may result. Do this test and raise your HID lights/reflectors periodically to keep light burn to a minimum.

Finally, monitor the conditions in your grow regularly as things are changing all the time, and you will soon get to understand the thermal dynamics of your particular grow space so you can get the most from it.


Editor’s note:
[Cannabis loves high light levels/high radiant energy levels, but exceeding their tolerance for light can result in light burn and chlorophyll leaching out of the leaves. 600's & 1000’s put out a lot of light, and light burn can easily damage clones and young plants.

Light burn damage: initially the leaves look pale green (the edges may turn upwards, mimicking a Mg deficiency), then they turn yellow and finally yellow/brown as the leaves scorch.

Often you can see a circular pattern of intense light where the reflector has focused the light onto the plants. If plants outside of this intense light zone look greener and healthier, consider raising your lights.

Yeah I use a pyrometer to measure leaf temps/radiant temps, it works great!

Like I said changing fan speed doesn't alter my temps by more than a few degrees...

The more black buckets u have the more heat will be absorbed and convected(?) Through your room possibly raising your temps... since ur room is full now you should see more realistic temps I would think... especially since ur intake is from a controlled environment.

-JOURNAL ENTRY-

My soil to hydro transplant.

-JOURNAL ENTRY-

I cant even begin to believe how much has happened since my last journal entry.

-CLONER-

*Calcium/toxic salt build up on neoproeme lids wont quit.
*2x are 3 weeks old and the rest are around 2 weeks.
*2x had 16" of roots and only one of the ones that was 2 weeks old rooted, its roots were around 9".
*I gave all 3 away yesterday to a friend
*I shut down my cloning operation and am hitting the drawing board. After looking at a friiends turbo cloner I think water temps are to blame?

-VEG-

*It is getting busy in here.
*3x seedings finally got a light nute (will be getting more tonight) Looking a bit hungry. Roots are doing great!
*Finally found a nute schedule I want for my ladies.
*GG1 DWC is doing AWEASOME! Its getting big and looks very healthy! Been slowly working up the nutes. Currently at 750ppm (sorry no EC).
*GG2 DWC is officially back in veg and has been getting alot of vertical height. Looks healthy again. 750ppm
*PE is about same height as the GG2 but is much more bushy. 750ppm
*OG Kush is doing just as good as GG1!! She is big and looks very healthy!
*All water temps never excede 73.
*Roots all look great!

-FLOWER-

*Not sure how but someone brought thrips over
*I saw only a few silver marks on leaves but only found 2 actual bugs.
*I didnt eff around, I got spinosad.
*Sprayed them at night with green light.
*Mixed it just right and and still managed to burned a few leaves??
*At day 2 of flower I forgot to trim up lower leaves for some working space between plant and pot. I had to trim up the lower leaves. I tossed in more dirt too.
*These ladies are looking mighty fine!!
*Never saw a bug or any more gnats after the first application of spinosad

I believe the cloner issue is your well water, was reading in Al B. Fuct's latest thread and he was talking about just this being caused by the well water and the high salinity of it. I would start with a Reverse Osmosis unit, worth every penny IMO, all you need is a ro unit and a 55 gallon drum. I will certainly get you a link if you want one. Glad to hear all else is going fairly well, don't blame any one for the trips though, your growing plants, your gonna get bugs. Very few of us are able to do a true sealed room.

TruenoAE86coupe said:

I believe the cloner issue is your well water, was reading in Al B. Fuct's latest thread and he was talking about just this being caused by the well water and the high salinity of it. I would start with a Reverse Osmosis unit, worth every penny IMO, all you need is a ro unit and a 55 gallon drum. I will certainly get you a link if you want one. Glad to hear all else is going fairly well, don't blame any one for the trips though, your growing plants, your gonna get bugs. Very few of us are able to do a true sealed room.

Click to expand...

I agree on the RO unit and I think I got the bugs from my 2nd round of clones I got. I must not have inspected them well enough? Thats my guess any way? I have house plants too and instantly went to those, none have thrips or thrip damage or any bug damage of any sort. So I figured if they managed there way to my rooms, they would be on my house plants? I may be wrong though?

Quick update since there arent many viewers (the few viewers I have Rock Tho!! I would rep you again but it says I must spread the wealth...)

*Got an Ro
*upped the ppm
*I added a white widdow/Northern lights clone I got from a friend cus I had the space, It isnt looking hot (why do these people taking cuttings from flowering plants???)
*Flower is looking bomb except some new found wilting
*GG DWC 1 and OG Kush are getting very big in veg!
*GG DWC 2 and pineapple express are a lot shorter than the other two.
*Im about to stat testing my cloning again.
*Im in the market for a real 55gal drum







The veg photos are taken last week, I swear they almost look twice as big now





I also just got some wilting that started yesterday.
Heres the linky, Please check it out
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/402208-wilting-just-started-1-strain.html#post5202114

Heres veg today



How should I trim this?? Im going to cut a few clones soon aswell.

Dustybowlz said:

Heres veg today

How should I trim this?? Im going to cut a few clones soon aswell.

Click to expand...

1st off I just want to say great job on the setup and equipment. I am on my first grow as well and eventually when I get more space I am setting a room up similar to yours.

Good job on the RO water. I have mine pH'd at 5.0 so when I add all my nutes it comes out to 5.5 to 6.0. Optimal pH for MJ plants is 5.5 and it definately makes a difference.

For the cloner, excellent setup, might want to lower the air pump, if that doesn't work, you can get something like "Oxygen Shield air diffuser". It's wrapped with foam so the air released is more gentle.

For the cuttings, it depends how you want your plants to grow. If you plan on topping them then you can use the top cut and some of the lower ones. In my experience the lower leaves either die or try to stretch themselves out to the sides and I like to leave lower space for fresh air to circulate.

I also like to lollipop my plants(trim the lower 6" of the stock) because the lower leaves don't get the light. This will put the energy that was going to the lower branches to the top of the plant. I like to take top and lower cuttings, the lower cuttings seem to root faster than the tops. Tops are nice and strong too.

If you are having insect problems I like to use SNS brand sprays. They are all organic with no chemicals and don't smell bad at all. I've used their spider mite spray and fungicide spray with great results. They also make a soil drench for insect eggs and larvae. So far for me, all my pest problems came from clones I got from other people. I like having a clean space to work with. Ultimately I would love to have something like a computer clean room, all white and very clean.

I love your grow so far, good luck with the ladies!

I STRONGLY RECOMMEND A GOOD ROOT STIMULANT MIX. I USE:

HUMBOLDT NUTRIENTS
Myco Madness
Humboldt Roots

AWESOME RESULTS

Now remember, everyone has their own way, mine is just an example to point you in the right direction. I've personally have had great success from my second round of cuttings and then forth.(I am new at this and I didn't have all my nutes in the 1st round of cloning.)

I use Grodan 2" rockwool cubes, soak them in my cloning mix. It consist of:
(1 gallon mix)

Botanicare
2mL of Liquid Karma
2mL of Aqua Shield
2mL of CalMag
4mL of Pure Blend Pro Veg formula
1/2 tablespoon of Humboldt Nutrients Myco Madness
2mL of Humboldt Nutrients Roots

Water is RO at a pH of 5.5 when all mixed together. The only thing that raises the pH is the Myco Madness. An old school grower told me you could add fresh lemon juice to lower the pH. Grodan also recommends this on their labels and website.
View attachment 1394039

List of stuff i'm currently using...

Botanicare Line

Pure Blend Pro veg formula: Veg stage, provides Nitrogen
Pure Blend Pro Bloom formula: Flower stage, increases phosphorous levels for flowers
Liquid Karma: Catalyst for nutrients working together, increases plants metabolic rate
Silica Blast: has beneficial organisms and strengthens stems, increases silicate which makes the plant strong (big sturdy stocks!)
Aqua Shield: liquid compost solution for soil or medium, great for clone roots and strong roots in adult plants (great foliar spray)
Hydroplex: 0-10-6 Bloom, increases plants resistance to external stresses; and amplifying enzyme, chlorophyll, and essential oil production.
Clearex: for flushing at the end, has surcose and glucose(sugars) to still give some boost to the flowers
CalMag: makes all your nutes work together and increases plants ability to take water and nutrients
Blast Off: has vitamins and hormones to increase plant growth, it is a plant growth stimulant

Advanced Nutrients

Liquid Carboload: (like molasses) it provides carbs for bloom stage to boost the size of the flowers. Works to improve your roots during flower cycle to absorb more nutrients and water, and is organic too. I would suggest getting bud candy if you go this route, has Liquid Carboload with other good stuff.

Humboldt Nutrients

Myco Madness: had beneficial organisms (fungi) that grow in the soil making your roots bigger in size (i use this to soak my Grodan blocks for clones) and whenever I transplant to give the roots a boost. First hand experience this stuff really works!)

Humboldt Roots: (from website)
Humboldt Roots is a highly concentrated organic root stimulant that expands the root zone during the critical growth stage. The soul of every plant resides in the roots. Many gardeners neglect this fact and concentrate on the visual aspects of their plants. A large yield is directly related to a plant’s metabolism rates, and plant metabolism rates are directly related to their root zones’ uptake of nutrients and fertilizers. Humboldt Roots was specifically designed to expand the root zone, resulting in larger yields through increased metabolism.
Guaranteed Analysis

Available Phosphate (P205)….0.25%
Soluble Potash (K20)……………0.25%
INGREDIENTS:
Ascophyllum nodosum seaweed, Potassium Humate
Also Contains Non-Plant Food:
Humic Acid (derived from Lignite)
Quillaja saponaria extract (derived from Soap Bark Tree)
Amino Acids

Some pics of my first real grow (veg area)
Casey Jones started in a 2" block into a 4" block

Chemdawg 3 cutting, rooted in 7 days

I have my cloning area under my mother rack. I like to start them with lower strength light before I put under t5's. I use 2 t8 (I think 30-40 watt) for the cutting dome and rooted cuttings without dome.

The mothers I keep for cuttings, I top to control the height and cut the lower branches as well.

Agent Orange, Sweet Tooth, Chemdawg 3, Casey Jones x Sour Diesel, Alaskan Thunder Fuck, Sour Grapes, DJ Short Blueberry.

Casey Jones x Sour Diesel, less than 2 months old in 5 gallon geopot, she's like a tumbleweed(because of Geopot plant will grow round and base of stock is already 2" around.)


I hope some of this helps, sorry for such a long post!

Good luck to you and your wife, I hope you guys grow some huge flowers on those ladies!

925Grow'N said:

I hope some of this helps, sorry for such a long post!

Click to expand...

Now this is why I post a journal!! Finally some really good feedback!! REP to you sir!

Let me start with, This is your first grow and you have all those mothers?? NICE WORK!

*Thank you very much for all the nutrient info. I ended up just following my advanced nutrient guide and did it slightly stronger than half strength and all works out fine. I was talked into the AN line by a friend who uses it and its just a bit overpriced for my blood. Maybe a goo GH or Botanicare is in my future.
*Thanks for the ph info, having different strains in hydro all take there food differently. Thats the other reason Im running no rez, individual buckets. The ph is different for my indicas and sativas, My sativas actually lower the ph as they drink water. My indicas raise it? I havent put a finger on this?? I started setting them all to 5.0 but now I set the sativas around 5.8-6.0 and indicas around 5.0.
*Im actually using ph up/down to adjust my ph. easier to handle.
*I have too much heat in my designated cloner area and not enough ventilation with out leaving its door open. I didnt put a heat mat under my dome (when using dome) and couldnt get the thing to condinsate? Now that im using my cloner I dont need humidity. I did lower my pump by putting it all in a 5gal bucket vs a 3gal. It helped alot for the stream, My unhealthy clones that took root (in nasty well water that took 2 weeks to root) grew about 20" long roots in the thing. I gave them to a friend but I dont know how vigor they will be. I want to cut clones tomorrow but dont have a "rock solid method" I can use. I could try my cloner again or try root shooters with out the dome (or with the dome with no condinsation)
*I just saw 2 thrips in pupae form. I attacked them with spinosad (highly highly recomended) and I never saw them agian. I also think they came from clones I got from people
*I lollypopped the two I have in flower now. There lower brances were completely in the way when I was watering.
*I want to lollypop these ones in veg soon, In 1 week I get my 2nd light assembly for flower and want to move my ladies into flower in 2 weeks. That would mean I "need" clones rooted and ready to go 3 weeks from now. Just perfect timing if I cut them this weekend.....I may go get a heat pad and set it all up somewhere else.... Priorities..
*I also like a very clean room. I clean up and vacuum 2 times a week and always enter in clean clothes, clean hands, no shoes. Try to keep it hospital clean.

+rep to you! I like the way you handle your room, I think it really makes a difference. I just got myself 1 General Hydroponics 3 gallon bucket system with the clay rocks. I put one of my Chemdawg 3 cutting in it and threw it in the flower room just to try it out. It's my 1st self containing hydro system. I wanted to try it out, I got to say it's very convinient! Roots grew already second day! I have a thread for my first grow as well. Somewhere in there I have some pics on how I take cuttings, but your thread really inspired me. I'm going to make a video tomorrow and post it on youtube, i've give you a link. I use a hydrofarm heatpad with thermostat with the dome, I have it set at 78 and the thing is very humid inside. I just leave the vents 1/4 open on each side and top and within 7-10 days I have roots!

I was thinking of making a cloning system similar to yours, I noticed how well the hydrobucket works I thought of getting another one and putting 6-8 2" rockwool blocks in the clay balls. Even to use it for rooted cuttings just to boost the root production before transplant would be great!

I just think well developed roots is the key to a plant that will produce a great yield. Especially during any transplant, first 3 weeks of flower, and throughout veg it is crucial to use good root stimulants to really boost the plants vigor and intensity to produce flowers. I'll be adding organic liquid guano to the ladies during the next flowering round. I've heard great things about guano, especially for the strains true natural flavor and to boost flower production.

3 weeks is perfect to take some cuttings and get them ready for flower. I can't wait to see more pics! Great job, keep it up!

Casey Jones #3
View attachment 1394084View attachment 1394087

Grand Daddy
View attachment 1394086View attachment 1394085

My first little hydro kit!


Again GOOD LUCK!

Looking Good!!

I hope to add GDP soon. I love the flavor!!

Lots going on.. I trimmed and folliar fed with ph'd RO and 1/4 strenth calmag and cut clones

Before



After



Clones cut were

2x Pineapple Express
2x OG Kush
2x Grape god from veg
2x Grape god from flower (someone said it was different pheno type)

I also had 6 other good looking shoots I figured I could try to root and help out another legal patient or 2?






I got a cool zipper for my veg room to "insure" I had no light leaks



Recent reading material

Sweet! I got my video footage but am having issues with my computer editing software. Excellent job, cuttings look great!

What's even better is I got that same Rosebuds and Urban Garden in my room too! I also have Maximum Yield which is great if you haven't seen it. I can't believe that!

Chemdawg 3 cutting in 4" block less than a week! Loved the root mix!


Can't wait to see your new cuttings grow!

Nice, what was your root mix again? Sounds promising! I was going to use Rw block but wasn't sure about how to keep a stable ph with them.

For your previous question, I would give your ladies another week to two before you cut again. You never want to cut more than 40% of the plant at a time. I would say definately help out patients! I am all for spreading the medicinal properties of cannibas! +rep to you for helping out.

My root mix consist of:

Now remember, everyone has their own way, mine is just an example to point you in the right direction. I've personally have had great success from my second round of cuttings and then forth.(I am new at this and I didn't have all my nutes in the 1st round of cloning.)

I use Grodan 2" rockwool cubes, soak them in my cloning mix. It consist of:
(1 gallon mix)

Botanicare
2mL of Liquid Karma
2mL of Aqua Shield
2mL of CalMag
4mL of Pure Blend Pro Veg formula
1/2 tablespoon of Humboldt Nutrients Myco Madness
2mL of Humboldt Nutrients Roots

Water is RO at a pH of 5.5 when all mixed together. The only thing that raises the pH is the Myco Madness. An old school grower told me you could add fresh lemon juice to lower the pH.(Got some organic guano 0-4-0, lowered my pH to 3! You can use this as a natural pH down) Tested pH down with fresh lemon, a little squeeze worked perfect. Very cheap way to lower your pH to exactly 5.5. Grodan also recommends this on their labels and website.

Sorry to wait soo long for update.

I have been very busy with regular life along with my full time job and the learning curve of this garden...

I think I have found out why I was having issues.....Too much ph adjustment, too often.... and alowing it to fluctuate out of the 5-6.3 range.

Heres the photos..


Clone Dome

I was told to add perlite and do it this way.... So I did... So far Im at day 9, still no roots





Veg

1x Grape god and 1x Og Kush were getting big (minimal stunting?).




I moved them off to the side to let the others catch up.







I moved them into flower a few days later which really cleared up a lot of space. We have 1x grape god and 1x Pineapple express in the back, 1x white widow/Northern lights off to the left side (really stunted and cut late from flower), 2x bag seed plants up front that keep looking male.....



A week later I pulled the males (bag seeds) and got 3 healthy white widow/ Northern Lights clones... again cut late from flowering but hay, there not mine and there free? They are sat up front.



That last pic was 3 days ago and there is already roots through net pots and there doing well...

Do you guys think I should trim there excess crap off or just leave it and let it die off? The guy I got em from says leave it?

Flower


















Construction

Upon switching to 5 gal buckets in flower I decided to use the 2nd air pump I had. One for veg, one for flower. I dont know how I like the output... Not sure what I want to do. This is a pic of my origional set up. I have switched it since due to fibrating noise in living quarters. Now it is silent.



I got a CAN 75 carbon filter and 6" flange and got my hood cooling/room scrubbing system 100% complete! To my suprise theres litereally zero cfm drop

925Grow'N said:

My root mix consist of:

(1 gallon mix)

Botanicare
2mL of Liquid Karma
2mL of Aqua Shield
2mL of CalMag
4mL of Pure Blend Pro Veg formula
1/2 tablespoon of Humboldt Nutrients Myco Madness
2mL of Humboldt Nutrients Roots

Click to expand...

Do you measure in EC or ppm? I dont have an EC meter but was wondering what the ppm is of this? I still have no roots???