giving defoliation during flower a try

unwine99

unwine99

Well-Known Member
AlphaPhase said:
though I used to be a sog grower and I find my yield is MUCH better when I train for a certain number of tops rather than veg to a certain height and then flower.
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That's sort of what I meant by spacing -- cola spacing. I only flower 8 plants, 4 per 600 watt , and I veg for 6-8 weeks, so no matter what my 4 plants are going to fill the 4 X 4 area and are essentially spaced the same.

Here is an example of a plant where I tried a "sea of green" w/more tops by topping/lst:
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And here is an example where I topped/train less for fewer/ larger colas:

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I understand what you're saying. I'm not one of those religious anti-defoliators -- I don't go all jihad and shit against deoliation like some of these guys. lol I'll probably give it a try one of these grows with some real leafy indicas. I'm just going to make sure I have all other variables taken care of first so I'm truly able to see any benefit. For example, until 3 weeks ago I flowered in the corner of a much larger room w/ little ventilation -- I most likely was losing quite a bit of light. So my next run will be my first run in an optimal flowering room. 4x4x8 room -- 2,600 watt hps -- 750 cfm inline for ventilation. So I'm going to see if that alone pushes me past my 3lb goal first before I attempt any plant mutilation. :-D
 
AlphaPhase

AlphaPhase

Well-Known Member
Love the nice healthy natural green color on those. I see what ya mean now, shit if I could get the light penetration much deeper I'd probably top less. Just seems when I don't top alot, the plant stretches more and the light doesn't perpetrate enough, basically leading to excessive lollipopin. If I was running multiple lights I'm sure the extra light would make up the missing lumens down under though. Anyway, nice plants!
 
unwine99

unwine99

Well-Known Member
AlphaPhase said:
Love the nice healthy natural green color on those. I see what ya mean now, shit if I could get the light penetration much deeper I'd probably top less. Just seems when I don't top alot, the plant stretches more and the light doesn't perpetrate enough, basically leading to excessive lollipopin. If I was running multiple lights I'm sure the extra light would make up the missing lumens down under though. Anyway, nice plants!
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Thanks man...ya, I can see for sure you have your grows dialed in though. You and sativied both are among the top 5 percent best growers here. Mad props.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
I don't entirely agree with some of alpha's comments but I know we could probably reach a consensus if we nuanced it very specifically and I do I agree he's one of the best growers at RIU. Like I said before his grows remind me of the more efficient growers in NL. High gpw is nice as a guideline but what it really comes down to eventually is how much you pull from a space. It's the G that matters, if it were about the W we'd all be running LEDs as softly and efficient as possible. Many growers here pay their bills with it, but simply can't accommodate more than the space for a tent or closet. And once you got a limited amount of grow space you try to get as much as possible from that, what matters then is gram per sqft or m2. Alpha is doing a great job.

The crusade (sounds friendlier than jihad lol) against defoliation is not about the act but the advice. It's just really bad advice to suggest removing leaves for more yield. Generally speaking anyway :) (because photosynthate is mobile and those blocking leaves also work for the lowest buds. That CF example with the mangrove, some of those buds were over 3 feet from the top canopy and still rockhard and still healthy green)

One large cola can yield easily as much as 4 smaller ones, yet with roughly half the branching and a quarter of the leaves. If you spread out the 'bud' over too many stems you also get too many leaves and then removing a few can be beneficial. To unscrew a situation (bad ventilation, overcropped(?), bad/leafy genetics, bad plant/cola spacing etc) that if maximum yield is the goal imo should and can be avoided.

unwine99 said:
That's sort of what I meant by spacing -- cola spacing.
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I call it bud site spacing because I get disappointed if it doesn't fill up into a cola :) It's a fun challenge by itself. Tricky part is that is differs per strain. There's a balance to be found though. I had hopes my current round would show that but I kind of need hydro to get the max or at least much larger pots. That also gives me the strong impression the light penetration is less influential than optimal nutrient and water regime (and overall conditions).
 
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AlphaPhase

AlphaPhase

Well-Known Member
Thanks sativied! You're definitely at the top of the great growers list as well.
I always try to make the best use out of a small area, I'll be moving at the end of the month to a place that space won't be an issue, so I'm sure alot of my growing style will start to slowly change to adapt to the new grow room. I guess growing indoors is all about adapting to the space you have to work with. We do have some disagreements on some topics, but that's how life always is and finding common ground is what matters 8-) totally agree with the g per sq/meter, you're definitely right on about that. People that have all the space they want, they just add another light if they aren't achieving their yield goals (lucky fuckers lol) - i am always trying to tweak little things to squeeze out the most I can with a single light and have to think ahead about how big a plant will be at the end of flower (sounds easier than it is, especially with limited ceiling height). @Aboutapound is hooking me up with a couple lights when I move, so it's going to be hard to get used to having extra light and not worrying if a limb is still in the footprint :p



Sativied said:
I don't entirely agree with some of alpha's comments but I know we could probably reach a consensus if we nuanced it very specifically and I do I agree he's one of the best growers at RIU. Like I said before his grows remind me of the more efficient growers in NL. High gpw is nice as a guideline but what it really comes down to eventually is how much you pull from a space. It's the G that matters, if it were about the W we'd all be running LEDs as softly and efficient as possible. Many growers here pay there bills with it, but simply can't accommodate more than the space for a tent or closet. And once you got a limited amount of grow space you try to get as much as possible from that, what matters then is gram per sqft or m2. Alpha is doing a great job.

The crusade (sounds friendlier than jihad lol) against defoliation is not about the act but the advice. It's just really bad advice to suggest removing leaves for more yield. Generally speaking anyway :) (because photosynthate is mobile and those blocking leaves also work for the lowest buds. That CF example with the mangrove, some of those buds were over 3 feet from the top canopy and still rockhard and still healthy green)

One large cola can yield easily as much as 4 smaller ones, yet with roughly half the branching and a quarter of the leaves. If you spread out the 'bud' over too many stems you also get too many leaves and then removing a few can be beneficial. To unscrew a situation (bad ventilation, overcropped(?), bad/leafy genetics, bad plant/cola spacing etc) that if maximum yield is the goal imo should and can be avoided.

I call it bud site spacing because I get disappointed if it doesn't fill up into a cola :) It's a fun challenge by itself. Tricky part is that is differs per strain. There's a balance to be found though. I had hopes my current round would show that but I kind of need hydro to get the max or at least much larger pots. That also gives me the strong impression the light penetration is less influential than optimal nutrient and water regime (and overall conditions).
Click to expand...

Well shucks dude, thanks! I just keep things simple and the plants do most of the work though :)
unwine99 said:
Thanks man...ya, I can see for sure you have your grows dialed in though. You and sativied both are among the top 5 percent best growers here. Mad props.
Click to expand...
 
unwine99

unwine99

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
I don't entirely agree with some of alpha's comments but I know we could probably reach a consensus if we nuanced it very specifically and I do I agree he's one of the best growers at RIU. Like I said before his grows remind me of the more efficient growers in NL. High gpw is nice as a guideline but what it really comes down to eventually is how much you pull from a space. It's the G that matters, if it were about the W we'd all be running LEDs as softly and efficient as possible. Many growers here pay their bills with it, but simply can't accommodate more than the space for a tent or closet. And once you got a limited amount of grow space you try to get as much as possible from that, what matters then is gram per sqft or m2. Alpha is doing a great job.

The crusade (sounds friendlier than jihad lol) against defoliation is not about the act but the advice. It's just really bad advice to suggest removing leaves for more yield. Generally speaking anyway :) (because photosynthate is mobile and those blocking leaves also work for the lowest buds. That CF example with the mangrove, some of those buds were over 3 feet from the top canopy and still rockhard and still healthy green)

One large cola can yield easily as much as 4 smaller ones, yet with roughly half the branching and a quarter of the leaves. If you spread out the 'bud' over too many stems you also get too many leaves and then removing a few can be beneficial. To unscrew a situation (bad ventilation, overcropped(?), bad/leafy genetics, bad plant/cola spacing etc) that if maximum yield is the goal imo should and can be avoided.

I call it bud site spacing because I get disappointed if it doesn't fill up into a cola :) It's a fun challenge by itself. Tricky part is that is differs per strain. There's a balance to be found though. I had hopes my current round would show that but I kind of need hydro to get the max or at least much larger pots. That also gives me the strong impression the light penetration is less influential than optimal nutrient and water regime (and overall conditions).
Click to expand...
It's funny I always feel the need to just shut the fuck up after your posts.......don't even know what to say. Lol. Great info as always. You're definitely ranked #1 most informative member here hands down. If you've ever wondered how your posts are perceived through the eyes of someone else, for me, this just about sums them all up:

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Sativied said:
That also gives me the strong impression the light penetration is less influential than optimal nutrient and water regime (and overall conditions).
Click to expand...
I think I'm coming closer to this realization also. I'm still operating on a lot of the old information that's been circulating forever -- I think it's just going to be a matter of de-programming, and converting "knowledge" into experience. (It's been a slow process)


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I'm still young though, so I still have time to become as good as some of you old timers. ;-)
 
AlphaPhase

AlphaPhase

Well-Known Member
He's definitely the top rank informative member imo too, I've learned tons of stuff just in random convo here and there. He knows much more than anyone in the development of plants , too. Breaking down plants into traits and such, it's some cool stuff he shares
 
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