giving defoliation during flower a try
- Thread starter Gucc1M3ng
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AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
I've tried everything to reduces the moisture, current temps are 75 day 70 night. I even added another fan (3 total now) and also have 1 440cfm exhaust. Only 9 plants vegged for 19 days. Soooo many leaves it's insane. The plants I grow have to be topped for yield (mostly og kush except this round I'm running gg4). I wish the plants I grow didn't grow so many leaves lol. Your canopies look fine, I wouldn't touch the leaves on those, but my canopy is super dense in foliage, I'll take some more pics to show the extent of it. My goal is always 2 lbs of dense buds and a ton of popcorn for hash, so 40oz total is what I shoot for and I haven't been a to hit those numbers with lower plant count 
not to mention the extra veg time needed for a smaller yield and the extra height space that wouldbe needed
not to mention the extra veg time needed for a smaller yield and the extra height space that wouldbe needed Yeah I was being sarcastic. I like to omit the sarcasm smiley.
They look spectacular.
I'm jk. they look great. Better than my soil and coco plants
The solution to the moisture build up is reducing temp fluctuations between night and day and increase airflow and ventilation. I also don't agree it would necessarily have to kill your yield. 1 huge fat colas can weigh as much as four thinner ones.
That said, I remove some fans during the last week or so to prevent it from getting too moist (bud rot always a big risk here). Removing leaves (like the ones at the bottom) does reduce transpiration which in turn can help prevent moisture build up. I could solve that too by running my other vent system (got two in my closet) but it doesn't have a carbon filter yet.
It seems you are removing leaves mostly on the parts of the plant that would not exists if each bud site were an individual plant right?
View attachment 3392957
(pfm = pruned for mainstems)
I do the latter although the image was just a rough example I posted once, which involves removing a few leaves but no defoliation from the eventual buds sites /colas, especially not during flowering. No "remove leaves for better light penetration". It's pruning and cropping and not defoliating.
And als not lollipopping. lollipopping could be considered a form of pruning (removing the lower thieves) but isn't defoliation. It's more the opposite of what you described earlier. Instead of removing the leaf you remove the branch above it. The new shoot that isn't going to amount to anything.
Agreed, the goal is to end up with bud. But.... that's not the same thing as the goal being to maximize the yield. The first goal should always be to grow enough quality.
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
When I grow anything that is sativa dom in leaf structure, I never have to cut a leaf. Here's a couple grows back preflower that was left alone since the leaves were skinny it created no issues. Less plant number (only 6) and yielded 1/2 of what I normally yield. Genetics play a big role in the plant training needed imo. I can give you a gg4 and if you grew it with out heavy training, just veg it and flower, you'd be extremely disappointed in the outcome. This plant has similar leaf structureas ssome of your pics have
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
I know.. this was a rather sloppy grow
King Arthur
Well-Known Member
Looks good to me bro!
I understand trying to hit yields, I never really hit my goals because I do too many strains. I have pretty much locked down the headband but I need variety so I always keep tons of other stuff in the room because you never know what will come out strong enough and what will be weak sauce.
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
Thanks man! Im the same way, always trying new strains all the time. My current grow is the first grow in years that I've flowered out only one strain, it's so much easier than running multiple strains, but it's not as fun 
Here's my current canopy . I was planning on training for about 100 tops between 9 plants, but something went wrong and theres over 150 tops so now I have to do more damage control than I wanted to
Here's my current canopy . I was planning on training for about 100 tops between 9 plants, but something went wrong and theres over 150 tops so now I have to do more damage control than I wanted to
King Arthur
Well-Known Member
You got yourself a set of wild childs on your hands!!!!!! 
Wew, I just took a hit of some Sour Diesel c02 and I am flying lololol! Gotta go check on my girls now!
Wew, I just took a hit of some Sour Diesel c02 and I am flying lololol! Gotta go check on my girls now!
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
The reason I do trim leaves sometimes is because if a top that is say 5" below a massive canopy, it starts to lose color, vigor, growth ect. Everyone should know what I'm talking about I hope. If not I'll find some tops to take a pic of. Once I tuck the leaf (if possible) and the top starts getting light again, it greens back up and doesn't look sick. So imo, when people say the lowers don't need light, I have to call bs on that. Lower branches that are completely covered by leafs and get no light do not and will not develop properly
King Arthur
Well-Known Member
Are you talking about the areas of the nugs on the lowers that aren't fully developed or off colored? I have noticed that certain strains will do this when they aren't getting light down at the bottom and I thought it was airflow but it seems to be something other than that.
I gotta get a picture, it is hard for someone to understand unless they know exactly what I am talking about.
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
mmm, sour d is in my top 3 fav smokes 
That's exactly what I'm talking about! It's like severely underdeveloped pale growth towards the lower limbs. Everytime I find a top that looks like that, it's getting 0 light and has a leaf hovering over it and it looks like crap and won't grow to anything worth while. I chalk it up to getting no light and moisture from shading
That's exactly what I'm talking about! It's like severely underdeveloped pale growth towards the lower limbs. Everytime I find a top that looks like that, it's getting 0 light and has a leaf hovering over it and it looks like crap and won't grow to anything worth while. I chalk it up to getting no light and moisture from shading
unwine99
Well-Known Member
I've noticed the same thing with my grows. Indica dominant strains create a pretty dense layer of foliage compared to sativas and I do think light penetration has something to do with lower bud development. That's why I'm really digging the haze dominant strains I'm growing right now -- nice tall colas, less leaves, more light penetration. I just need to find more with decent flowering times.
Below is one my indica dom. canopies from a grow a while back -- a little excessive in the leafiness department IMO.
Below is one my indica dom. canopies from a grow a while back -- a little excessive in the leafiness department IMO.
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
I agree with ya man! Those indica structure plants just seem to be much more of a pain in the ass I'm noticing too. Your grow looks great, but damn leafy for sure lol. I have a couple extremely dense indica dom strains i'm vegging now and I know for a fact if I do a sog or even just grow them with an avg plant number under a light, it'll need some heavy pruning
ISK
Well-Known Member
I love to defoliate, as what good are those damn leaves anyhow? they just get in the way of the buds.
You don't smoke the leaves, so why grow them?....anyhow, time to start flushing with PK 13/14
before defoliation
now doesn't this look better....like a nicely trimmed pussy
You don't smoke the leaves, so why grow them?....anyhow, time to start flushing with PK 13/14
before defoliation
now doesn't this look better....like a nicely trimmed pussy
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
That pussy looks great!
unwine99
Well-Known Member
I feel you there........it seems like w/ indica strains I only get 6-8 inches of cola before the light hits that dense foliage and thus reducing density/quality/maturity below that line. (There's no way I'm ever going to do the double harvest thing). On the other hand, with these haze hybrids I've been messing with, spaced exactly the same, I can get decent light penetration 12-18 down, forming nice long solid colas.
Instead of plucking leaves w/my indicas I've really been trying to dial in cola spacing -- less/larger colas -- hasn't really changed my yields much though. I've come close to 1 GPW, less than half an ounce shy on one occasion, but I've never hit it. I've thought about plucking a few leaves here and there, I just can't pull the trigger. Lmao
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
Right on man, it took me a while before I plucked any leaves.
Plant spacing is a good strategy, though I used to be a sog grower and I find my yield is MUCH better when I train for a certain number of tops rather than veg to a certain height and then flower. I think 9 plants under 1000w is the winning ticket for me to always get a couple lbs per light (without counting popcorn) -it's all strain dependant along with the training, both are equally valuable for me. But growing this way has its issues that I take care of by heavy pruning
I've never plucked any on outdoor gear but when I started doing a lot of indoor I started trying different things. Some plants just do not like pruning and some respond very positively. It's all trial and error on strains I've never run before. I have a few that just explode after a nice pruning session, no stress at all and they just shoot out so much new branching it's unbelievable. Other strains get clearly stressed though. I guess when I comes down to this thread, I don't go ape shit and defoliate everything, that just seems crazy to me (tthough I know some people that do it and they're gear is great). The whole time I've been active on this thread, the only point I tryto gget across is, careful pruning will not decrease yield, it will not stunt "most" plants and it can be a very good technique for indoor grows. I'm not for defoliation, but I'm not against heavy pruning when need be and my plants always respond to my training in a positive way.
Plant spacing is a good strategy, though I used to be a sog grower and I find my yield is MUCH better when I train for a certain number of tops rather than veg to a certain height and then flower. I think 9 plants under 1000w is the winning ticket for me to always get a couple lbs per light (without counting popcorn) -it's all strain dependant along with the training, both are equally valuable for me. But growing this way has its issues that I take care of by heavy pruning
I've never plucked any on outdoor gear but when I started doing a lot of indoor I started trying different things. Some plants just do not like pruning and some respond very positively. It's all trial and error on strains I've never run before. I have a few that just explode after a nice pruning session, no stress at all and they just shoot out so much new branching it's unbelievable. Other strains get clearly stressed though. I guess when I comes down to this thread, I don't go ape shit and defoliate everything, that just seems crazy to me (tthough I know some people that do it and they're gear is great). The whole time I've been active on this thread, the only point I tryto gget across is, careful pruning will not decrease yield, it will not stunt "most" plants and it can be a very good technique for indoor grows. I'm not for defoliation, but I'm not against heavy pruning when need be and my plants always respond to my training in a positive way.
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
Nice plant sativied. Plants like that can Def benefit from losing a couple leaves, there's so many leaves that it won't affect anything in a negative way imo
After adding the 3rd fan pointing up from the bottom of my canopy, much less moisture is happening on my leaves, so I think I'm done with the pruning this run. Gg4 is much easier to manage than other plants I've run, it has some serious stretching which clears up alot ofthe sweating I think I only cut 20 lleaves in 1/2 or so which is about 2 leaves per plant. The ones that I cut in half because it was covering alotoof tops, the tops greened up and made it to the top of the canopy, so I was happy about that
After adding the 3rd fan pointing up from the bottom of my canopy, much less moisture is happening on my leaves, so I think I'm done with the pruning this run. Gg4 is much easier to manage than other plants I've run, it has some serious stretching which clears up alot ofthe sweating
I think I only cut 20 lleaves in 1/2 or so which is about 2 leaves per plant. The ones that I cut in half because it was covering alotoof tops, the tops greened up and made it to the top of the canopy, so I was happy about that
