Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks

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Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Hi Al, I was hoping you could provide me with some further information about your mother plants.

[...]

I understand the procedure involved in topping / fimming but am unsure when and where to do so.
I go into all that in some detail in https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/15030-batch-clones-rockwool.html

It's not much more difficult than introducing a clone to 18+h/day light and nipping off the growing tip, forcing growth to divide. In a couple of weeks, the side branching will develop a bit, giving you nice thick stems to use for cuts.

Mine look like this right after cuttings.... and 2 weeks later:




I found this page when looking for further information, but it looks quite harsh to cut the top off the plant in this manner....
OpenDNS
Nah, cannabis in veg likes being cut back. It will respond by dividing growth or popping out new branches down on the mainstem when the plant is more advanced. You do wind up with something of a bonsai effect after a while. However, on older mums, branches eventually come up very thin. I've found that thicker stems root much more reliably and consistently.



Thick stemmed cuttings outperform thinner ones. The stack on the left all have stems about 4mm or less. The stack on the right all are over 5.5mm.

The method described suggests taking many more, much smaller cuttings per mum than I do and keeping mums much longer than I do, too. I might only take 4-5 cuttings per mum each 2 weeks, but I'm choosing the thickest, most vigorous stems.

Old grow books' instructions on cloning tend to be based in outdoor growing. Often, the instruction given is to take tiny cuttings from lower branches of a plant as the donor is intended to be flowered. Mainstem tips and side branch tips are best preserved if the donor is to be flowered later. Tiny cuttings with thin stems are hard to get to set root and might benefit from heroics like cutting leaf blades in half (though that does stunt the plant) to reduce transpiration and the use of humidomes.

We don't have those limitations in indoor ops. These days, mother plants are grown specifically to supply cuttings, so the best quality, most vigorous mainstem and larger side shoot veg growth is used for cuttings. Larger cuttings with thick stems are much easier to strike than little ones with tiny stems. No heroics required.

Cannabis is an annual. Under normal circumstances, the plants sprout, veg, flower, go to seed and die between spring and late autumn. An 8 month old cannabis plant is about the equivalent of a 100-year-old human. While it's possible to keep mums in a controlled grow room environment for many years, it's not particularly advisable. The new material that grows from an old mum is still DNA identical to the mum but age can turn on some genetic signals to mutate in old age. The trick is to keep changing mums out often so they never get 'old' per se.

I'd never consider keeping a mum for an entire year, much less 3-15 years as mentioned in the linked item. I replace mine about every 8wks or so, sometimes longer (perhaps 12wks) if they're going well. However, mums tend to get rootbound, may pick up a colony of gnats in the roots, etc. It's too easy to just grow out a clone as a new mum and trash the old one than to try to nurse along a sickish old plant.

Ignore silliness about clones of clones losing any of their characters over time and generations. Cutting a branch off a plant does not alter the plant's DNA. I sprouted Sweet Tooth #4 seeds in 2002 and have been propagating it by cuttings ever since.

There's no particular trick to making big clones root- it's actually much harder to get smaller ones to set root and there's less margin for error should you get the watering wrong. I don't use humidomes nor mist anything- my clonebox even has an exhaust fan. High humidity is not needed to prevent wilt if the clones can get sufficient water uptake through their stem cuts. Without humidomes, if you see wilt in a few days after doing cuttings, your scalpel or watering solution may not have been sterile or the medium was kept too wet and water uptake via the stem cut is being blocked by tissue rotted by pathogens. Use H2O2 @ 1ml/L in rockwool cube soaking and clone watering solutions. A heat mat increases speed and consistency of rooting times across a batch of cuts.

It can be difficult in the beginning to get high success rates with RW cubes. Many folks try to keep them wet or saturated. Sure way to fail. Cubes must be only damp, never wet. A 40mm cube weighs 5g dry and 20-25g when properly damp. Heavier than that is too wet and oxygen will be driven out of the cube, causing slow rooting. When you've gotten it right, you may see first taproots showing at 5 days. I always see first roots in 7-10 days. By day 14 post cutting, the roots are developed enough to introduce the clones to the flowering area or the veg area as a new mum.

Avoid organic rooting materials like Jiffy Pots. Organic materials can support mould growth and can fragment, not a nice thing in your recirculating hydro system, where pumps can be fouled.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
al, you know any plumbing????

im trying to get this damn compression ring to work and my shit keeps leaking
If you're talking about a brass ferrule compression type connection, remember that the ferrule is only good for ONE use. If you tighten it down kaddywompus and it leaks, you need to get another brass ferrule.
 

daddychrisg

Well-Known Member
Hey Al I asked a few days back about using H2o2 with Coco, you responded that the h2o2 will break down the coco. Well I have been using coco for a few cycles now and have been using H2o2 also, and have not seen any ill affects from it, but it sure keeps the muck out of the res and lines in my flood and drain feed system. Can you elaborate on the topic further...? I have cut down on the cost of additives in my nutrient line up with the use of H2o2, and would love to keep using it...But I am always searching for knowledge, and maybe I am not aware on of the damage that I may be causing using H2o2 with coco...
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Hey Al I asked a few days back about using H2o2 with Coco, you responded that the h2o2 will break down the coco. Well I have been using coco for a few cycles now and have been using H2o2 also, and have not seen any ill affects from it, but it sure keeps the muck out of the res and lines in my flood and drain feed system. Can you elaborate on the topic further...? I have cut down on the cost of additives in my nutrient line up with the use of H2o2, and would love to keep using it...But I am always searching for knowledge, and maybe I am not aware on of the damage that I may be causing using H2o2 with coco...
As long as the coco isn't fragmenting, keep using the H2O2. There's not much more I can add to what I've already said. The only problem I can see is the bits getting loose and fouling your pump. However, if the coco you have made from particularly woody material, it may survive H2O2 better than I'd thought.
 

Scotland

Active Member
Thanks for your reply Al. Should I go ahead and cut the main stem above the second set of fan leaves then? I will be taking away about 5" of growth! The trimming is really worrying me. I am not sure where to do it, how often to do it, whether to trim every new shoot to encourage side shoots... I am lost Al - any more pointers?!
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Thanks for your reply Al. Should I go ahead and cut the main stem above the second set of fan leaves then? I will be taking away about 5" of growth!
Yep, above the 2nd or 3rd node will be fine.

Don't panic. :) Get used to lopping off bits of plant and composting it! :lol: It'll grow back incredibly quickly. Cannabis can easily grow vegetatively an inch+ a day with lots of light & other conds correct.

When I do a batch of cuttings and prune back mums, I fill a 10L bucket packed solidly full of plant trimming waste, about 1-1.5kg of the stuff. I grow much more plant material than I need so I can have my choice of the biggest, thickest fresh stems.

The trimming is really worrying me. I am not sure where to do it, how often to do it, whether to trim every new shoot to encourage side shoots... I am lost Al - any more pointers?!
Stop worrying. Lop the mainstem at the 2nd or 3rd node. Don't trim the side shoots, let them grow out- those will be your first batch of cuts in about 2 weeks if your plants are under an HID light, ~3wks under fluoros. When you do your batches of clones in future, that will be all the pruning they need.
 

daddychrisg

Well-Known Member
As long as the coco isn't fragmenting, keep using the H2O2. There's not much more I can add to what I've already said. The only problem I can see is the bits getting loose and fouling your pump. However, if the coco you have made from particularly woody material, it may survive H2O2 better than I'd thought.

I am using two different manufactures of Coco right now, one is definitely more "woody" then the other. I will pay careful attention to how much the coco is breaking down and making its way out of the baskets that holds the coco/perlite/silica. Thanks for the advice...If I come up with solid conclusions about this "matter" I will let you know....
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Yep, you're right, it's not a huge deal. Media breaking up due to exposure to H2O2 is not much of a worry, as long as it's not plugging up pumps. It's not like trying to use organic nutes and watching them foam & fizz away to nothing when H2O2 hits them.
 

cmak40

Well-Known Member
"Stop worrying. Lop the mainstem at the 2nd or 3rd node. Don't trim the side shoots, let them grow out- those will be your first batch of cuts in about 2 weeks if your plants are under an HID light, ~3wks under fluoros. When you do your batches of clones in future, that will be all the pruning they need"

i have new seeds that are at about 23 days old they are under 600 hps so the are going good. they have about 4 sets of leaves only 2 sets with 5 full leaves and have obviously 4 internodes...they are still only about 5 inches tall. do you suggest topping these??? and then if the answer is yes which ive gathered but being for sure. i do think they might be a little premature but i dunno shit from sticks....then in about 3 more weeks i can cut the sprouts from the internodes off each main top or do i use the actual 2 tops themselves as the first donations?

i think i just read this right my bad...after topping the plant 4 internodes up. the 3 internodes below the cut will get more growth and become the donations when large enuf, and there is 6 per plant there. brainfart or something there sorry...


SORRY AL CANT GET HELP ON THIS. and i didnt want another post just to ask if you know how to downsize a pic to upload it on to the site. i dunno how and admin hasnt replied to me...
 

LoudBlunts

Well-Known Member
If you're talking about a brass ferrule compression type connection, remember that the ferrule is only good for ONE use. If you tighten it down kaddywompus and it leaks, you need to get another brass ferrule.
okay al, im officially pissed. i just said fuck it! and the dude at the hardware store advice. fuck his 25 years of plumbing experience....the shit didnt work. I'm no plumber by anymeans....but i know im not dumb well not to the point where i cant figure this shit out, its not rocket science. i knew damn well the pressure would spit the poly. tubing out of the saddle valve ASAP, WITH or WITHOUT the compression fittings. Hell i even got all three different compression. i used the rubber ones, the plastic ones and the copper/metal ones. FUCK IT!

im kinda even more pissed because i put a hole in my run line (water line to the faucet) i used a saddle valve. i guess i could just leave the saddle on there, but i dont want to leave it there especially if its not in use. do you have a solution for a quick fix instead of getting a whole 'nother flex tube? what about some type of plumbing putty that can withstand high pressure? i just want to chalk that hole that was made from the saddle valve

anyways...so i found a solution. well i knew what i wanted, but the name i was told was a feed valve....come to find out, which i barely find. The real name or the plumbing standard name is a angle stop adapter valve. i kinda like them John Guest's push in quick connectors. pretty damn sexy!!!!

see al, all this damn work for nothing....guess i shoulda listened to you aye? i just had to have a water filtration system and look at the headache its given me....lol

oh yea....interesting news bro. why is the spring water i pay for higher in ppms than my tap? The spring water was sitting at 140-150 ppms with a ph of 7.60-7.80. My tap was delivering me 100-110 ppms with a ph of 7.40-7.50. And best for last.......tell me why the rain water i harvested is sitting at a very favorable 014- 016 ppms with a ph of 8.60 or so. Fucking interesting aye?

Aint that a bitch. I pay for spring water, yet my tap water is lower in ppms. I buy a filtration system and my damn rain water gives my RO system a run for its money....what in the hell al...lol.


and al, once again....thanks for being such an encyclopedia man, you really seem to be jack of all, master of none....i see you dibble and dabble in a little bit aye? thanks for all the help
 

hornedfrog2000

Well-Known Member
This thread is a really good resource, and I have been reading it for a few days now. I searched about your odor control methods, but I was wondering if you could go into some more detail about how you have your Ozone gens set up, how many you have, and if you feel it has completely eliminated the smell.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
al, how do you feel about the vchip?

https://www.rollitup.org/politics/66957-never-accept-vchip.html#post757769

i know its kind of off the subject but you dont accept PM's.. :D

can you post your opinions on the link... thanks:peace:
Vchip, national ID cards and microchipping people are all very different things.

On Vchip: Parents should act like parents and monitor their children's TV viewing. When kids do encounter age-inappropriate material, it's a great 'teachable moment.' You don't keep kids from drowning by banning water- you teach them to swim.

On national ID cards, I'm fully opposed. One should have the right to move freely and anonymously within one's home country without being molested by police. Police should only have the ability to seize and search persons reasonably suspected of criminal activity, not merely to verify one's identity.

On microchipping people as we chip our cats & dogs, if a person does so voluntarily for whatever reason (such as identification of remains), I'm OK with it. Obviously, I'm opposed to involuntary microchipping.

Saw your list of links. There's some seriously tinfoil-hatted conspiracy crap going in some of those. I have absolutely no patience for conspiracy theories- in fact they piss me off massively, for the most part. It makes me lose faith in the grand capacities of the human mind when they are so enthusiastically wasted. It depresses me to no end that some people are not only stupid enough to believe these steaming piles of 'wisdom,' but propagate them. Tabloid journalism/TV shit me off for just the same reason. Massive conspiracies don't work because there's too many people who have to keep secrets- and humans just suck a whole bag of ass at secrecy.

My general experience with people who spread conspiracy theories is that they feel out of control of their own lives and have to help others to feel out of control too. Spread the misery, if you will. Thanks, I'm in control of my life and don't believe governments are necessarily impenetrable, malevolent monoliths beyond the reach of the commoner.

In my real life, I'm hugely politically active, as you might expect. I know you can make a democratic government bend to the will of the people. You can unseat a bad government in a democracy. I've recently helped do just that! (edit- If I ever disappear suddenly, it's not because I've been busted... it's because I've been elected. :lol:)

There's one or two events in recent history that mirror some of the hallmarks of conspiracy theories in their sheer outlandishness on the face, but actually did happen i.e. US presidential election manipulation in 2000 & 2004, the notion that the US was actually after control of Iraqi oil instead of WMD, that Saddam had no WMD etc. All were once very tinfoil-hattishly presented in media (late 2002). Sometimes "they" put one big conspiracy past you, but it takes some truly criminal activities at the very top to make such happen- and it always comes out. GWB and a few of his closest friends DO have a date in The Hague.

But you know... I think the times, they are a changin'. Note the 2006 US congressional midterm elections. The voters threw the bums out. Too bad the new bums were the almost same as the old bums... the USA is about to have its own glasnost, if it is to survive at all. Outsiders are the candidates to pick, as long as they're fans of the US Constitution as written.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
This thread is a really good resource, and I have been reading it for a few days now.
Thanks. :)

I searched about your odor control methods, but I was wondering if you could go into some more detail about how you have your Ozone gens set up, how many you have, and if you feel it has completely eliminated the smell.
O3 is great for killing scents but even at a level strong enough to cause spotting on some leaves was not helping keep down powdery mildew, so I just pointed it into the exhaust line. I'm addressing powdery mildew with a sulfur 'burner' at the moment.

I moved the Uvonair 5000 O3 gen so its output is right under the main exhaust blower, so all its output is going down the exhaust line. It now also is plugged into the thermostat which runs the main blower, so now it only runs when the exhaust blower is running.

This frequent switching on & off will shorten the life of the UV tube. I'm thinking about putting the O3 gen in the exhaust duct, after the main exhaust blower, and just let it run 24/7/365. The tube will last about 3-4 years in constant operation, but about half that when switched on & off frequently.

I have another O3 gen, a Uvonair 3000, which treats air coming out of the bud dryer.

Yes- O3 is 100% effective in knocking down scent. I use UV O3 gens instead of carbon filters because carbon filters lose effectiveness, slowly, until the carbon granules must be replaced, roughly yearly. The UV O3 gens only require an infrequent dusting with compressed air and relamping every few years. UV O3 is the cheapest scent control method in the long run, lowest maintenance and most effective, to boot.

Since I'm in the grow all the time, my nose is not very sensitive to the scent of buds. I test scent killing effectiveness by using a marker scent like eucalytpus oil on a rag hung near the main exhaust blower. If I can't smell gum tree oil out of the exhaust line, no one will smell buds, either.
 

Enigma

Well-Known Member
Saw your list of links. There's some seriously tinfoil-hatted conspiracy crap going in some of those. I have absolutely no patience for conspiracy theories- in fact they piss me off massively, for the most part. It makes me lose faith in the grand capacities of the human mind when they are so enthusiastically wasted. It depresses me to no end that some people are not only stupid enough to believe these steaming piles of 'wisdom,' but propagate them. Tabloid journalism/TV shit me off for just the same reason. Massive conspiracies don't work because there's too many people who have to keep secrets- and humans just suck a whole bag of ass at secrecy.

My general experience with people who spread conspiracy theories is that they feel out of control of their own lives and have to help others to feel out of control too. Spread the misery, if you will. Thanks, I'm in control of my life and don't believe governments are necessarily impenetrable, malevolent monoliths beyond the reach of the commoner.

In my real life, I'm hugely politically active, as you might expect. I know you can make a democratic government bend to the will of the people. You can unseat a bad government in a democracy. I've recently helped do just that! (edit- If I ever disappear suddenly, it's not because I've been busted... it's because I've been elected. :lol:)

There's one or two events in recent history that mirror some of the hallmarks of conspiracy theories in their sheer outlandishness on the face, but actually did happen i.e. US presidential election manipulation in 2000 & 2004, the notion that the US was actually after control of Iraqi oil instead of WMD, that Saddam had no WMD etc. All were once very tinfoil-hattishly presented in media (late 2002). Sometimes "they" put one big conspiracy past you, but it takes some truly criminal activities at the very top to make such happen- and it always comes out. GWB and a few of his closest friends DO have a date in The Hague.

But you know... I think the times, they are a changin'. Note the 2006 US congressional midterm elections. The voters threw the bums out. Too bad the new bums were the almost same as the old bums... the USA is about to have its own glasnost, if it is to survive at all. Outsiders are the candidates to pick, as long as they're fans of the US Constitution as written.

As far as conspiracy theories go I know nothing is impossible. With GREED as motivation people will do anything.

As far as government goes.. I'm an Anarchist. Some think Anarchy is complete chaos, it isn't. Is it well educated individuals working together for a common goal without a governing body. Each think for themselves.. they are made fully aware of the outcomes of their actions.. no "right" or "wrong".. just cause and effect.. consequences to actions.

I'd love to see you in office AL!

:peace:

:blsmoke:

Enigma
 
S

Sherry

Guest
I've been browsing around the boards a bit while taking a break from the snipping. One common thread I keep finding is that too many growers are working way too hard, particularly on nutes.

Dunno, could be because I'm a stoned slacker or because I'm running a production line op that makes a lot of dope and I don't want to fuck with it constantly (and I make stupid stoner mistakes!), but I simplify and make robust or errorproof my processes wherever I can. Some of my foolproofing and fuckwit factor reductions involve compromises to max yield per plant, but never to quality.

I run plants in pots of absorbent media, as opposed to aero or DWC, both which supply lots more O2 to the roots and thus improve production by about 10-20%, because aero & DWC don't have inherent fault tolerance. Aero, DWC etc. break and stop working- right now. Floods with pots break and give you a couple days to catch it.

The fault expected is the grower (me)! Air pump failures, general negligence and outright grower fuckups can kill whole batches in other methods. I chose the less productive method because it's a lot harder to kill entire batches at once- but don't think I haven't given that a good goddamn try anyway... :D

We were on nutes here a page or so ago. I've also gone and looked over the GH/Lucas stuff. I'd go absolutely porcupine-buggering mad (figure you'd have to be pretty mad to bugger a porcupine) if I had to calculate out all those drop-by-drop portions for my 5 tanks AND keep track of them as each of my batches progress. That's not nutes, that's NUTS. :D

It simply doesn't have to be all that hard to get good results.
I really like this idea - I am ready to clone (for outdoor) with the first 20 plants - I have about 2 weeks before cloning the remaining 27 plants (for outdoor as well.)..

I will be taking clones from the outdoor plants - first I'm topping and then I'm getting 3 cloning from one branch a week or two later - from only the best looking/performing plants in each strain.

all told I plan on having 350 plants, with hopefully at least 250 females (I have feminized seeds but I know some will go hermie on me - they'll be ripped up ASAP and their plant number/strain will then determine which of my clones came from those hermi plants - I'll discard them asap - or my clones will tell me which outdoor plants are hermie.. whatever way - doesn't matter).

Then I'll take 30 clones and flower 'em every 2 weeks while I'm waiting for my outdoor harvest (sept/oct) I WILLL HAVE WEED!

This would work perfectly for me - I don't have a bunch o lights - but I do have 5 x 6' area I will be sooooo happy to utilize during spring/summer.

Man, No jonesing thru summer!! Finally my analytical/statistical nature is being utilized as well - gotta keep that brain sharp at all times.

I'm planning on keeping my best of the best cloned in that little area after outdoor harvest in sept/oct all the way through March/April '09- I'll start off next year with a short harvest and all the clones I can use for outside growing - Have my Plants and smoke em too...

Now if I could just lessen the aroma so that no one coming over visiting will have the slightest inkling that I'm growing (amazing how many friends you make when they know you're near 'harvest time' "old buddy ol pal, have we told you lately just how much WE LUV You?"....)

Thanks for the tips, I love this forum - you all make me very happy!!
sherry:hug:
 

Scotland

Active Member
Stop worrying. Lop the mainstem at the 2nd or 3rd node. Don't trim the side shoots, let them grow out- those will be your first batch of cuts in about 2 weeks if your plants are under an HID light, ~3wks under fluoros. When you do your batches of clones in future, that will be all the pruning they need.

Thanks for the advice Al. I lopped two mainstems out of the four plants I have (Still a little nervous!) and they seem to be responding well. I will do the other two plants tomorrow when I have convinced myself that they will not die!

Now I have the confidence to trim, is there any further trimming I should do? Should I nip out the side shoots of the stems I will be using for clones or is there a better way of ensuring that the plants energy goes in to making thick strong and long branches for me to use for clones?

This is my first grow and I'm still not 100% as to how the plant grows. The 'goblet' shape which I now have by cutting out the main stem is a good start - but I am not sure how to maintain this shape and which shoots to use and concentrate on for clones. Having trawled the internet - the only article I could find that showed how to care for mothers was the one I linked on a previous post - and the outline you give on the clones thread.

Perhaps I am just being stupid - but as clones are going to be vital to copy your technique - I want to make sure I am treating the Mothers correctly and preparing them well to ensure perfect clonable branches!

Thanks

 

cmak40

Well-Known Member
um, yes you can- and just did, didn't you? I don't THINK I imagined typing up some notes for you...

.................i dont think i understand...no i still don know how to post pics but ill figure it out, my old pics are from an old shitty cam now i got a new one with all these megapixels and shit and the pics are way to big to upload. anyone know how to doensize a pic please pm me thanx. i have pix i have questions about and cant get them on here...............

your right i didnt think youd want to "type up some notes for me" i just figured you knew how to get pix on here so i could ask some ?s
thanx tho...
 
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