Five myths about immigration
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Balzac89
Undercover Mod
Mexicans are going to cross our border no matter what we do. Nothing short of shooting every person who tries to cross would do anything to stop them and even then i still think they would find a way to get here.
Immagration laws are just like drug laws they don't do shit to stop people from doing what they want. Laws don't stop people from doing shit.
Immagration laws are just like drug laws they don't do shit to stop people from doing what they want. Laws don't stop people from doing shit.
Big P
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3 dead in fire at Greek bank during Athens riots
By DEREK GATOPOULOS (AP) 1 hour ago
ATHENS, Greece Greek anger over new austerity measures erupted into flaming protests Wednesday in Athens, as rioters tried to storm Parliament, hurled Molotov cocktails at police and torched buildings. Three people were killed in the melee, trapped in a burning bank.
Tens of thousands of people took to the streets as part of nationwide strikes to protest new taxes and government spending cuts demanded by the International Monetary Fund and other European nations before heavily indebted Greece gets a bailout to keep it from defaulting.
In Berlin, Chancellor Angela Merkel called the bailout critical for all of Europe.
"Nothing less than the future of Europe, and with that the future of Germany in Europe, is at stake," Merkel told lawmakers. "We are at a fork in the road."
In the streets of the Greek capital, demonstrators chanted "Thieves, thieves!" as they attempted to break through a riot police cordon guarding Parliament and chased ceremonial guards away from the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in front of the building.
Tear gas drifted across the city center as rioters toss paving stones and fire bombs at police. Firefighters struggled to put out the flames as at least two buildings were set on fire. Protesters set up burning barricades and torched cars and a fire truck.
Fire Brigade spokesman Panayiotis Falaras said three bodies were found in the wreckage of a Marfin Bank branch on the route of the protest march, and another five people were rescued from the burning building's balcony.
"We took 15 minutes to get to the site because it was very difficult to get there," he said, adding that it was not clear whether those who died had suffocated from the smoke or burned to death.
Parliament speaker Filipos Petsalnikos said the dead were two women and a man, and Parliament held a minute of silence for the dead.
The marches came amid a 24-hour nationwide general strike that grounded all flights to and from Greece, shut down ports, schools and government services and left hospitals working with emergency medical staff. The Acropolis and all other ancient sites were closed and journalists also walked off the job, suspending television and radio news broadcasts.
Some media including state television and the Ta Nea newspaper Web site later broke the strike to report on the deaths.
The loans are aimed at preventing Athens' debt troubles from becoming a wider crisis for the euro by engulfing other financially troubled countries such as Spain and Portugal. Greece faces a May 19 due date on debt it says it can't repay without the bailout.
But the rioting underlined skepticism that the Greek government could keep up its end of the bargain, helping drive the euro below $1.29 for the first time in over a year.
Union reaction until now had been relatively muted by Greece's volatile standards, although the country has been hit by a series of strikes. But anger mounted after Prime Minister George Papandreou on Sunday announced cuts in salaries and pensions for civil servants, and another round of consumer tax increases, as a condition of the bailout.
In Berlin, Merkel urged parliament to quickly pass the country's share of the bailout euro22 billion over three years by Friday.
Violence also broke out in the northern city of Thessaloniki, where another 20,000 people marched through the city center, with youths smashing windows of stores and fast food restaurants.
The outpouring of anger appeared much more spontaneous than the frequent set piece battles between police and anarchist youths who often spark violence during Greek demonstrations.
Greek unions concede that the cash-strapped government was forced to increase consumer taxes and slash spending, including cutting salaries and pensions for civil servants.
But they say low-income Greeks will suffer disproportionately from the measures, which aim to save euro30 billion ($40 billion) the country's current budget deficit through 2012.
"These people are losing their rights, they are losing their future," said Yiannis Panagopoulos, head of GSEE, one of the two largest union organizations. "The country cannot surrender without a fight."
IMF head Dominique Strauss-Kahn warned that the crisis could spread to other countries despite the rescue package's efforts to contain it.
"Everyone must remain extremely vigilant," to this risk, Strauss-Kahn said in an interview published in French newspaper Le Parisien Wednesday.
"I completely understand the Greek populations' anger, its incomprehension at the size of the economic catastrophe," Strauss-Kahn said. But Greeks must also understand that without these measures, "the situation would be infinitely more serious," he said.
Those who are feeling the crunch are outraged that they have to pay for what they see as politicians' mismanagement of their country's economy.
"We'll be on the streets every day, every day! You never win unless you fight," said 76-year-old Constantinos Doganis, who gets euro345 a month from his farming pension fund.
"It's our fault too, all the mistakes made by politicians over 30 years, all the people who cheat on their taxes," he said. "But they are behaving like buzzards the Germans borrow money at 3 percent and then lend it to us for 5. Why?"
Despite the strike, the draft bill of the new austerity measures is to be voted on Thursday. Prime Minister George Papandreou's Socialists hold a comfortable majority of 160 in the 300-seat Parliament, and with a simple majority of 151 votes needed, the bill is expected to be passed easily.
Associated Press writers Elena Becatoros in Athens, Greg Keller in Paris and APTN crews in Athens contributed.
Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
Photo 1 of 18
<A id=ss-zoom-anchor href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/slideshow/ALeqM5iXUJvBknZVGqsBenIusBgBvWj5WQD9FGNLKO1?index=0">
Riot police try to escape from a molotov fire in central Athens, Wednesday, May 5, 2010. Greek fire officials say three people have died in a blaze that broke out at an Athens bank during rioting over government austerity measures. An estimated 100,000 people took to the streets Wednesday during a nationwide wave of strikes against spending cuts aimed at saving the country from bankrupty.(AP Photo/Thanassis Stavrakis)
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3 dead in fire at Greek bank during Athens riots
By DEREK GATOPOULOS (AP) 1 hour ago
ATHENS, Greece Greek anger over new austerity measures erupted into flaming protests Wednesday in Athens, as rioters tried to storm Parliament, hurled Molotov cocktails at police and torched buildings. Three people were killed in the melee, trapped in a burning bank.
Tens of thousands of people took to the streets as part of nationwide strikes to protest new taxes and government spending cuts demanded by the International Monetary Fund and other European nations before heavily indebted Greece gets a bailout to keep it from defaulting.
In Berlin, Chancellor Angela Merkel called the bailout critical for all of Europe.
"Nothing less than the future of Europe, and with that the future of Germany in Europe, is at stake," Merkel told lawmakers. "We are at a fork in the road."
In the streets of the Greek capital, demonstrators chanted "Thieves, thieves!" as they attempted to break through a riot police cordon guarding Parliament and chased ceremonial guards away from the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in front of the building.
Tear gas drifted across the city center as rioters toss paving stones and fire bombs at police. Firefighters struggled to put out the flames as at least two buildings were set on fire. Protesters set up burning barricades and torched cars and a fire truck.
Fire Brigade spokesman Panayiotis Falaras said three bodies were found in the wreckage of a Marfin Bank branch on the route of the protest march, and another five people were rescued from the burning building's balcony.
"We took 15 minutes to get to the site because it was very difficult to get there," he said, adding that it was not clear whether those who died had suffocated from the smoke or burned to death.
Parliament speaker Filipos Petsalnikos said the dead were two women and a man, and Parliament held a minute of silence for the dead.
The marches came amid a 24-hour nationwide general strike that grounded all flights to and from Greece, shut down ports, schools and government services and left hospitals working with emergency medical staff. The Acropolis and all other ancient sites were closed and journalists also walked off the job, suspending television and radio news broadcasts.
Some media including state television and the Ta Nea newspaper Web site later broke the strike to report on the deaths.
The loans are aimed at preventing Athens' debt troubles from becoming a wider crisis for the euro by engulfing other financially troubled countries such as Spain and Portugal. Greece faces a May 19 due date on debt it says it can't repay without the bailout.
But the rioting underlined skepticism that the Greek government could keep up its end of the bargain, helping drive the euro below $1.29 for the first time in over a year.
Union reaction until now had been relatively muted by Greece's volatile standards, although the country has been hit by a series of strikes. But anger mounted after Prime Minister George Papandreou on Sunday announced cuts in salaries and pensions for civil servants, and another round of consumer tax increases, as a condition of the bailout.
In Berlin, Merkel urged parliament to quickly pass the country's share of the bailout euro22 billion over three years by Friday.
Violence also broke out in the northern city of Thessaloniki, where another 20,000 people marched through the city center, with youths smashing windows of stores and fast food restaurants.
The outpouring of anger appeared much more spontaneous than the frequent set piece battles between police and anarchist youths who often spark violence during Greek demonstrations.
Greek unions concede that the cash-strapped government was forced to increase consumer taxes and slash spending, including cutting salaries and pensions for civil servants.
But they say low-income Greeks will suffer disproportionately from the measures, which aim to save euro30 billion ($40 billion) the country's current budget deficit through 2012.
"These people are losing their rights, they are losing their future," said Yiannis Panagopoulos, head of GSEE, one of the two largest union organizations. "The country cannot surrender without a fight."
IMF head Dominique Strauss-Kahn warned that the crisis could spread to other countries despite the rescue package's efforts to contain it.
"Everyone must remain extremely vigilant," to this risk, Strauss-Kahn said in an interview published in French newspaper Le Parisien Wednesday.
"I completely understand the Greek populations' anger, its incomprehension at the size of the economic catastrophe," Strauss-Kahn said. But Greeks must also understand that without these measures, "the situation would be infinitely more serious," he said.
Those who are feeling the crunch are outraged that they have to pay for what they see as politicians' mismanagement of their country's economy.
"We'll be on the streets every day, every day! You never win unless you fight," said 76-year-old Constantinos Doganis, who gets euro345 a month from his farming pension fund.
"It's our fault too, all the mistakes made by politicians over 30 years, all the people who cheat on their taxes," he said. "But they are behaving like buzzards the Germans borrow money at 3 percent and then lend it to us for 5. Why?"
Despite the strike, the draft bill of the new austerity measures is to be voted on Thursday. Prime Minister George Papandreou's Socialists hold a comfortable majority of 160 in the 300-seat Parliament, and with a simple majority of 151 votes needed, the bill is expected to be passed easily.
Associated Press writers Elena Becatoros in Athens, Greg Keller in Paris and APTN crews in Athens contributed.
Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
Photo 1 of 18
Riot police try to escape from a molotov fire in central Athens, Wednesday, May 5, 2010. Greek fire officials say three people have died in a blaze that broke out at an Athens bank during rioting over government austerity measures. An estimated 100,000 people took to the streets Wednesday during a nationwide wave of strikes against spending cuts aimed at saving the country from bankrupty.(AP Photo/Thanassis Stavrakis)
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personal attacks and insults such as these are not allowed.
Balzac89
Undercover Mod
I don't think it will be as popular as he thinks it would be.
Big P
Well-Known Member
have you guys tried crossing the border from north Korea to China?
im pretty sure that got that puppy locked down pretty tight
just think of it this way guys show if your of mexican desent and speak spanish you may find it nice to have you peoples here
but did you ever think for once what if the shoe was on the other foot
what if it was 12 million arrabs crossing the border
like 1 million per year?
would you support an open border policy>?
all of a sudden anytime you call a hot line they say press 1 for english press 2 for farci press 3 for arabic
give me a fucking break you guys would be shitting yourselves if there was and arbification of america going on but these libs got it in your heads that your racist or somthing for being an american and supporting your country
grow a set boys, im an american first and i wasnt even born in this country
what the hell are you guys doin???
im pretty sure that got that puppy locked down pretty tight
just think of it this way guys show if your of mexican desent and speak spanish you may find it nice to have you peoples here
but did you ever think for once what if the shoe was on the other foot
what if it was 12 million arrabs crossing the border
like 1 million per year?
would you support an open border policy>?
all of a sudden anytime you call a hot line they say press 1 for english press 2 for farci press 3 for arabic
give me a fucking break you guys would be shitting yourselves if there was and arbification of america going on but these libs got it in your heads that your racist or somthing for being an american and supporting your country
grow a set boys, im an american first and i wasnt even born in this country
what the hell are you guys doin???
Balzac89
Undercover Mod
Actually if they try to cross twice and get caught both times we lock them up and we all pay 80 dollars a day(for each one) to feed, cloth an house them for a year.......so whats better to give them a job or free room and board for a year? It's like winning a free vacation all expenses paid.
abe23
Active Member
Big P...
I don't get it. What do riots about austerity measures in greece have to do with this?
We need to fix immigration as a whole. That includes enforcing the laws, yes, but it also means fixing legal immigration so that the right kind of people get in. Quotas and lotteries just don't make any sense.
And if you're an immigrant, you will understand that leaving your home country to come here and try to make it is a big deal and takes determination and smarts and that it's a good thing for those kind of people to come here and contribute to our economy.
And it's not just about central americans. There are illegal immigrants from canada, ireland, poland, russia, china and all of them broke the same laws when they came here.
I don't get it. What do riots about austerity measures in greece have to do with this?
We need to fix immigration as a whole. That includes enforcing the laws, yes, but it also means fixing legal immigration so that the right kind of people get in. Quotas and lotteries just don't make any sense.
And if you're an immigrant, you will understand that leaving your home country to come here and try to make it is a big deal and takes determination and smarts and that it's a good thing for those kind of people to come here and contribute to our economy.
And it's not just about central americans. There are illegal immigrants from canada, ireland, poland, russia, china and all of them broke the same laws when they came here.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
I'm not an advocate of parasites, I do not endorse giving benefits to anyone if the "gifts" were not provided voluntarily. I don't believe anybody has the right to redistribute others property without their consent, be they private individuals or groups of people that have seized power over others and calling themselves "government".
I'm simply reminding you that it isn't "Robin Hood" behavior to steal from others if the item stolen isn't yours. That's theft that you are trying to sell as a noble deed.
Putting lipstick on a pig, doesn't change the fact it's still a pig.
Concerning Mexicans some are good people, some are not, just like any others.
The history of the world is people migrate, some "legally", some illegally.
I wonder what Native Americans think of all this illegal immigrations stuff anyway?
If it's illegal for some people to immigrate and you find that particular "unlawful" behavior wrong how do you feel about posting all that on a site that glorifies an "illegal" plant? Is one illegal behavior acceptable? Why?
RickWhite
Well-Known Member
I generally avoid this issue because it is very complex and I don't know all the facts. I think one would pretty much need to specialize in this area to really have an informed opinion.
The obvious question that comes to my mind is exactly what jobs these illegals are filling while we discuss all of the people here that can't find work. Let's face it, we have a sub-culture of laziness and entitlement that creates a perfect market for these illegals.
As an employer, I can tell you that when I consider two candidates - one a hard working illegal and the other a lazy, foot dragging, malcontent American, I have strong incentive to hire the illegal. And no, it's not because they work cheaper - it's because they have a good work ethic and won't piss and moan all the time.
The obvious question that comes to my mind is exactly what jobs these illegals are filling while we discuss all of the people here that can't find work. Let's face it, we have a sub-culture of laziness and entitlement that creates a perfect market for these illegals.
As an employer, I can tell you that when I consider two candidates - one a hard working illegal and the other a lazy, foot dragging, malcontent American, I have strong incentive to hire the illegal. And no, it's not because they work cheaper - it's because they have a good work ethic and won't piss and moan all the time.
estesj
Well-Known Member
I said I don't do that. What I did say was allot of people do and I was using that as an example of how pissed Americans have gotten with the situation at hand and how they are fighting back and making a dollar at the same time.
estesj
Well-Known Member
They do piss and moan you just cant understand them. Please don't hire these people!
Pipe Dream
Well-Known Member
I agree with medicine man. The schools are overwhelmed with latinos and there is no end in sight. My daughter is learning spanish, not that it's bad because it will help her in the future but the fact that it's almost a necessity is a little aggrivating. I can count them when I pick her up it's practically 80% hispanic. She goes to a private school and the public schools are even worse. .Colorado is looking at closing schools because there is not enough money to pay teachers because of the amount of kids. There are legal ways to become a citizen and I know that many of these people are here illegally, but than they have children born here and they are automatically citizens. I think that they should have to be here legally in order for their children to be citizens but that's just me.
I have had many hispanic friends growing up and I don't judge based on race but more where your loyalties lie. For the ones who assimilate into our country through the proper channels are just Americans to me it's the ones here illegally or temporarily that are mexicans. With that said, my biggest problem is the way they don't assimilate. They are here for one reason, to make $. Seems like they have an unfair advantage because many of them live 3 families to a household splitting the cost of the rent between them and they can basically work for much less than a typical american family which hurts us. Now I know that we could do the same thing, I'm not complaining, but the problem is where does all this extra $ go? They aren't contributing greatly to the economy because their $ is saved and sent back to mexico so they can go back and live like kings in their own country. That isn't good for our country and any spike in consumerism is only temporary because those individuals are not here to stay and only buying the bare essentials. What they are doing is a crime but it's not even enforced. An aquaintance of mine was picked up for a crime and wasn't even a legal citizen and they released him, how can that be right? They don't even bother deporting them when them being here is against the law?
I watched a show about trackers in Arizona on TV last week that was interesting. They have a taskforce to track down these illegals and smugglers and there is always work for these guys to do because it's a constant problem. Kinda makes you think when native americans are willing to work for the government in ridding the country of immigrants there must be something wrong. It's not all innocent they are a drain on our economy and they are destroying our land because they don't care about it-it's not theirs. What would happen to all these illegal workers if we went to war and there was a draft? Are they going to fight for this country or just pack it up back to their own country where their family and heritage is? Sure, it's great for all these business owners who can hire illegals to work for low wages and not even pay taxes on them but I think we all know the reality of cheap labor from other countries it only ends bad for the masses. We need to be self sufficient not rely on workers from other countries it's crippling our financial stability. They want usz to buy all these products and services from other countries because it's so cheap but how are we supposed to continue to do that without jobs? It's like how machines have taken so many jobs from people because of their efficiency but it only benefits a small group of people while eliminating jobs for the rest of us.
I have had many hispanic friends growing up and I don't judge based on race but more where your loyalties lie. For the ones who assimilate into our country through the proper channels are just Americans to me it's the ones here illegally or temporarily that are mexicans. With that said, my biggest problem is the way they don't assimilate. They are here for one reason, to make $. Seems like they have an unfair advantage because many of them live 3 families to a household splitting the cost of the rent between them and they can basically work for much less than a typical american family which hurts us. Now I know that we could do the same thing, I'm not complaining, but the problem is where does all this extra $ go? They aren't contributing greatly to the economy because their $ is saved and sent back to mexico so they can go back and live like kings in their own country. That isn't good for our country and any spike in consumerism is only temporary because those individuals are not here to stay and only buying the bare essentials. What they are doing is a crime but it's not even enforced. An aquaintance of mine was picked up for a crime and wasn't even a legal citizen and they released him, how can that be right? They don't even bother deporting them when them being here is against the law?
I watched a show about trackers in Arizona on TV last week that was interesting. They have a taskforce to track down these illegals and smugglers and there is always work for these guys to do because it's a constant problem. Kinda makes you think when native americans are willing to work for the government in ridding the country of immigrants there must be something wrong. It's not all innocent they are a drain on our economy and they are destroying our land because they don't care about it-it's not theirs. What would happen to all these illegal workers if we went to war and there was a draft? Are they going to fight for this country or just pack it up back to their own country where their family and heritage is? Sure, it's great for all these business owners who can hire illegals to work for low wages and not even pay taxes on them but I think we all know the reality of cheap labor from other countries it only ends bad for the masses. We need to be self sufficient not rely on workers from other countries it's crippling our financial stability. They want usz to buy all these products and services from other countries because it's so cheap but how are we supposed to continue to do that without jobs? It's like how machines have taken so many jobs from people because of their efficiency but it only benefits a small group of people while eliminating jobs for the rest of us.
abe23
Active Member
The point about assimilation, culture and language has nothing to do with people's legal status. It's also the same argument people made about german, irish, jewish and italian at the turn of the last century. As far as I can tell, most of them have assimilated fairly well...
Pipe Dream
Well-Known Member
yes maybe but it's only temporary. If they are here to stay that's one thing because they will provide $ for our country for the rest of their lives. This will help the real estate market and long term investments. On the other hand if they come here and live 3 families to a rented home, they are able to pay a couple hundred $ a month rent and put away all this money to send back to their families in mexico. They can work 2 jobs basically night and day because it's only for a while. It's like alaskan crab fisherman, work for a few months really hard get a bunch of money and go back home. That makes me have to work for less because I have more competition but I can't afford to work for such low wages because I actually have bills and taxes to pay. They aren't interested in buying real estate or anything that helps our economy and many don't even pay taxes while their children are utilizing our public schools and contributing to the crime rate. Don't tell me that it's not the truth their are mexican gangs all over the place and graffitti only they understand written all over my community and pretty much every community I'm sure.
O BTW happy cinco de miyo lol
O BTW happy cinco de miyo lol
estesj
Well-Known Member
This is my main and really only point.Lets say me or you or any fellow American citizen is dressed in baggy pants over sized t-shirts or maybe dressed like a bum and are strolling through a rich area of town you will be stopped by police and asked what the fuck are you doing over in this area? If that happens and it has to me then you should not get mad if you are not breaking the law because they are doing there job to keep things safe. It goes the same for illegals. If you are a ethnic American you should not be offended by them stopping you because you know there are allot of people that look like you that are not supposed to be here and there is no way for the police to tell the difference unless they check you out. It happens to black and white Americans that have dreads. gold teeth, baggy pants ect, every day and we can't do anything about it. Fuck those cry babies wanting special attention. If it stinks then it's probably shit.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Sounds like the same rationalization FDR used to incarcerate American citizens of Japanese descent during WWII.
...baggy pants...can't do anything about it? Ahem, it's called a belt.
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