First Time Grower Advice

TheWiseInfidel

Active Member
I am planning on starting my first grow hopefully next month and have a SHITLOAD of questions. I've done about a month of research but theres ALOT of information pertaining to the particular stages and techniques, equipment that I really can't find the answer to. With this post I will make as detailed an outline as I can of what I plan on doing and how I will go about doing it and asking questions along the way where I feel is necessary.As I progress through the outline I will put a # and three *** next to it to signify the question so whoever has an answer to that particular question can just type the number then their answer for reference. I hope that the veterans will see my process and be able to correct my mistakes as well as give me advice on how to go about making my grow op. more efficient. anyways on to the outline

I PLAN ON DOING THIS ON A $300 BUDGET MAX! TRYING TO MAKE IT $250 HOWEVER!


For starters I am planning to do a THREE PLANT indoor pure organic closet grow(36inX7ft). the closet space is very thin but long in width. 1***Will having such a thin width stunt the growth of the plant as the leaves probably won't have a terrible amount of space to spread?***

The lights I plan on using are t5 fluorescents on a sunblaze reflector set up @ 6500k throughout the entire process. i will more than likely have two or three fixtures to give the plants enough lightsource throughout. However, I want to get the maximum yield for my plants(5-8 oskies) and have considered investing in getting a 4 bulb hood or a 200-300w HPS or MH setup though I think its a bit exxagerated for two or 3 lolely plants. 2*** What is the most cost-effective option but also the best option for the my desired yield and would it be necessary to have different lighting setups for different stages(vegetative, flowering) or can I do as planned and use the single setup throught the entire process? Will the t5 sunblaze option give me a decent 4-5 oskie yield if i go that route?***

At about a week and a half/2 weeks into the seedling stage i will transfer it to its final pot which will more than likely be a 2-3 gallon container. I will more than likely use a nitrogen-rich topsoil from miracle grow from the beginning and throughout feeding it strictly water until the mid vegetative state(depending on my ppm reading for nitrogen of course). I will start at 200ppm then work up to aboutt 700-800ppm until the end of the vegetative state. I am aware that nitrogen is needed throughout the seedling and vegetative states but for the flowering stage one should change to a phosphorous/potassium-rich fertilizer that also includes magnesium and some sulfer. ***2 assuming that i need to fertilize with nitrogen before reaching the flowering stage as the plant will be using up alot of the nitrogen early would i use a 20-20-20 or should i up the nitrogen to 30-10-10?. do i completely stop feeding nitrogen to the now flowering plant or do i i use a low nitrogen high phospherous diet such as a 10-30-10 mix. would i need to add more potassium on top of the 10-30-10 fertilizer during this time if i go that route. What is the suggested ppm to keep the runoff water at once the plant reaches flowering stage? and do ppm meters measure multiple nutrients, or just nitrogen? do you suggest I make my own potting mix as many guides advise? i.e using topsoil, moss, vermiculite, worm castings etc. or would it be a little out of my league as a first time grower? would that make a significant difference than just going with the nitrogen-rich soil for the seedling stage?***

as for watering my plant i am well aware that this is a very delicate process, however there is a lot of perspective involved as to how to water your plants. i have some equipment questions as well. ***3 would i water the plant till the top of the soil becomes saturated or until i can see runoff water coming from the bottom of the pot? what is the recommended ppm level once my plant reaches the flowering stage? would a Co2 tank aid in growth significantly or would talking to my plants for an hour or so have the same effect? does Co2 simulation create a SIGNIFICANTLY higher yield?***

for harvesting my plant i will probably do so 8-9 weeks after flowering has started feeding it only water at about 7 1/2 weeks for at least a week to "flush" the nutrients. apparently the harvesting process is as follows. trim the leaves and excess leaves from the buds and stem leaving only the buds then cut them at the roots and hang them upside down on a hangar<<<<<<wtf u serious? it says to leave them in a well ventillated dry area for about 1-2 weeks then to cure them inside mason jars for another two weeks making sure to check for mold, over humidity etc. for another 2 weeks. ***4 would i be able to hang them inside the closet with the doors halfway opened and the fan blowing medium strength facing the walls?***





I might be leaving out major details that i've overlooked since i've spent an hour making this little mini outline. i know i tackled the major questions, however, and hopefully i can get some informative answers and corrections to my outline as to not make mistakes when i actually put my grow in operation. i'm dreaming big but i want my first grow to be as good as a professional grow. any and all input is appreciated.
 

RetiredMatthebrute

Well-Known Member
#1: 36in(3ft) should be plenty of room man i have grown more plants in a 32'x32' tent, you will just have to use the 7ft and spce them out and the leaves will grow to where they get the most light, plants arent dumb they will reach for that light, if you have some branches that are not getting good light and look as if they will probably turn into shitty tiny buds just cut em off so they arent using up food for the bigger branches getting more light

#2: get yourself a decently long (as you have 7ft to cover) flouro setup, use a "daylight"(2700K) for veg and the 6500k for flower, this is the "norm" (hope i dont have the 2 confused, theres a decent flouro thread on here somewhere that will tell you the spectrums for the diff stages, pretty sure im right tho ) a 250w HID wont give you the footprint you need for your odd shaped closet unless you hook up a light mover which probably is not within your budget

also, you didnt ask but you stated organi and then said you wanted to use miracle grow topsoil which probably is not going to be organic, they may have some "organic" topsoil but i wouldnt trust miracle grow to be truly organic. do yourself a favor and get a nice pro mix and a good nutrient lineup, advanced nutrients, fox farm.....you will be glad you did. Fox farm trio has 3 bottles for the different stages and mixing charts and everything you need, while i believe they arent true organic they are better than miracle grow. another thing is if you are going organic measuring PPM is not going to do you any good as most of the nutrients are being used as they are being broken down by the mircro's in your soil which is another thing you will need to consider when starting an organic grow. alot of true organic grows consist of casting/guanno tea's amd fish emulshion/kelp/guano liquid ferts that dont have anything in them that benifit the plant right out of the bottle but are broken down into needed nutrients for the plant by your mirco organisms in the soil. there really is alot to true organic gardening that i think you should work your way up to, my suggestion is to do a fox farm grow, soil and nutes, grab up a bag of ocean forest of happy frog and a small bag of pro mix, use 1/2 pro mix and 1/2 fox farm soil for the seedlings then when you transplant into final containers go 100% fox farm and maybe a bag of perilite for added drainage. then as you grow and read you can work on getting setup for organic grow and have that ready for the next round. thats just my 2¢ where you have a tight budget you looking at around 200 or more just on your lights then you have to get soil, nutes, containers, seeds..... ok let me finish reading above

#3: Co2 is proven to help, white sugar, warm water and yeast will create cheap Co2, you have to maintain it and it can get to be a pain in the ass but it will work, what also will work is proper ventilation, good fresh air from outside the closet blowing into the closet, you breath in the house all day every day, if you have pets they do to. there is plenty of Co2 in the air for your plants to grow just fine without adding additional but if you feel the need get the ingredients listed above, fill a 2 liter soda bottle 1/2 way with warm water, add 1 cup of sugar and a tbl spoon of yeast (or a package) drill a small hole in the top and set by moving air to circualte.

#4: yes for dry cure you can go as crazy as you want but as long as there is good cair circulation you will be fine. burping you jars is verry important you dont want mold all over you buds trust me, make sure you dry and cure them good. after the buds have dried for 2 weeks they are smokeable, hell i oven dry little bits at a time if i need to and its not the best but its decent. just remember 2 weeks for one guy is not 2 weeks for another, you have to use your best judgment on this and if they feel like its time at 9 days then you need to do what you think is best. overdried buds sucks!!!! moldy bud sucks!!! so this is something that will take you a few grows to perfect no one can tell you exactly how to dry and cure your bud because everyones harvest is not the same, obviously a cola the size of a 2 liter bottle is going to take more time to dry out and be more of a process than a bud the size of a lighter.

your going to make mistakes on your first grow and its may come out great you may fail miserably but you will learn and the second will be better, so on and so fourth. growing is a great hobby and a learning experience. there are guys that have been growing for 20 years that dont have all the answers. im going to give you a outline of what "I think" would be your best option on your budget

light: 6ft T8 from home depot 6ft T8 4 bulb fixture , get some 2700k bulbs to go in this probably looking at 100-150 bucks total, T5's are better yes but they are 2x the money

soil/nutes: get a bag of fox farm ocean forest its around 25 bucks, the fox farm trio nutrient line is around 60 bucks 1 bag of perilite is about 5 bucks (dont get miracle grow brand) and a small bag of pro-mix is around 7 bucks maybe less

get some 5 gallon nursery pots about 4-5 bucks each and some red solo cups.

were already up to around 200-225$ and thats just lights, medium and pots.

you really should order a 5 pack of fem beans even if they are cheap, only growing 3 plants you want all females, no room for males. this is going to be another 50 bucks at least, make sure you order from a reputable bank like attitude, you can probably get a decent 5 pack of seeds and a couple freebies for 50 bucks if you shop around.

and the plan. (assuming you have all your supplies)

1. paint the room flat white if you can its not the "best" people will say no no mylar mylar mylar but fuck em they must have money, flat white is about 85% reflective while mylar is about 97% not losing that much and you can improve later, paint is cheap.

2. mix up a 50/50 fox farm soil and pro mix, reson: the fox farm is a bit too hot for baby plants, we dont need any burns this early in the game. germinate your seeds and get them into thier solo cups or whatever your using for a container. make sure you have good drain holes so water can drain. watering is not as touchy as everyone seems to say it is as long as your soil is drained well and the roots arent sitting in mud your fine, no need to water them every day, and when you water bring them to the sink and water them well, let them drain good and you should be fine. you want to be extra carefull with watering during the first 2 weeks as the plant is still young and prone to damping off or drowning. after 2 weeks from first sign of leaves you should have nice roots and be ready for transplant. dont transplant untill the roots are growing around the bottom of the starting container and will hold all the soil together, borderline rootbound.

now that your ready for the transplant into final container you can mix the rest of the pro mix and fox farm together along with the bag of perilite and fill up your 5 gal pots, transplant them and water in. you shouldnt even be thinking about nutrients at this time unless the plants are looking yellowish, if they are nice and green leave them be.

around week 3-4 you should have around 4-5 sets of nodes, the plants should have all took to their new homes in the 5 gal pots and roots be reaching the bottom of the pot. now is time to start on 1/4 strenth of the recomended dosage of veg nutes, i think the fox farm one is called grow big..

now you just stick to your feeding schedule and let them grow, after they get sitated in the new pots they are going to grow really fast and by week 5 you will probably be ready to switch to veg if not sooner, it all depends.

a couple things you will want also. timer for lights, fan for airflow, you can put a small oscialting fan in the closet and put anpother small fan bringing in fresh air, FRESH AIR IS IMPORTANT DO NOT SHRUG IT OFF. and a humidity/temp meter, wal mart sells one for around 7 bucks and it works good.


im subbed up, update the thread as you go and i will try and answer to the best of my knowledge. some people may disagree with me so take both of our advice and do your own research to determine whats best for you and your situation. remember there is alot of mis information out there do good research.
 

TheWiseInfidel

Active Member
lol it IS alot reading. but your explanation beat mines. very VERY informative advice though definitely. i'm still doing my research and won't start the project until the beginning to middle of september.
 

miijade

Member
For my first grow I found some used T5's on craigslist. 4ft long and I have seven of them, two for veg and five for flower. Since then I have swapped the Flower ones for some hps, but I have to say....I was real impressed with how the T5's did for flowering. Of course they are great for Veg, but I was impressed with how big my buds got. So thats my two cents. Keep at it. Its good that your taking your time and thinking this through. I probably spent an extra $200 buying shit I didn't need or replacing stuff because I didn't do it right in the first place. Good luck.....
 

RetiredMatthebrute

Well-Known Member
yeah like i said above T5's are said to be better than the other flouro tube lights but T8's come in at a close second and have even seen some people on here say they like them better than the T5's. me personally i grew with CFL's for a while and they did just fine and when i got a few extra bucks i upgraded to a 600w HID light.

check out a close friend of mine Matthebrute he used to be a member on these boards and has a couple of journals that are really really similar to mine *wink*
 

hellnaugh

Member
I have 2 plants growing in starter plugs about 7 days old Im getting a brownish yellowish spots on plants was wondering if its because I need to transplant them to there 3 1/2 gallonpot. I took a look at the roots they are on outside edge of plug so Im guessing a transplant is in order. But all I have is happy frog organic soil , what I was wondering is will the soil burn them? And is it to early to transplant, hope someone can get back asap. And does it have to be tranplanted while in my 6 hours off time..?
 

RetiredMatthebrute

Well-Known Member
I have 2 plants growing in starter plugs about 7 days old Im getting a brownish yellowish spots on plants was wondering if its because I need to transplant them to there 3 1/2 gallonpot. I took a look at the roots they are on outside edge of plug so Im guessing a transplant is in order. But all I have is happy frog organic soil , what I was wondering is will the soil burn them? And is it to early to transplant, hope someone can get back asap. And does it have to be tranplanted while in my 6 hours off time..?
your soil should be fine, i suggest getting them into some soil ASAP and give a nice watering , then leave em alone and let them do there thing.
 

TheWiseInfidel

Active Member
i'm looking up the information for local distributers for the potting mixes n found a couple stores SORTA in my area probably 45 min away but if its worth the drive fuck it.....its worth the drive. now to my understanding advanced nutrients is created by a herb grower that makes nutrients specifically for herb growing so i'm guessing they wont sell that shit locally anywhere ANYWHERE. ANOTHER QUESTION about the lighting since i'm very fixated on getting some hps is you mentioned my width being a problem for the light to reach. what if i were to move the lights ever few hours manually. would that make a difference in distributing the light evenly for the light cycles.
 

TheWiseInfidel

Active Member
last question then i'm done. if i cant' measure the ppm of what i'[m putting in the plants right away, how do i know if i'm overfertilizing or underfertilizing my plants and wouldlnt' i be able to read the run off water the NEXT time i water the plant and see somewhat where the levels were from the last time i watered the plants
 

RetiredMatthebrute

Well-Known Member
i'm looking up the information for local distributers for the potting mixes n found a couple stores SORTA in my area probably 45 min away but if its worth the drive fuck it.....its worth the drive. now to my understanding advanced nutrients is created by a herb grower that makes nutrients specifically for herb growing so i'm guessing they wont sell that shit locally anywhere ANYWHERE. ANOTHER QUESTION about the lighting since i'm very fixated on getting some hps is you mentioned my width being a problem for the light to reach. what if i were to move the lights ever few hours manually. would that make a difference in distributing the light evenly for the light cycles.
i guess you could move the light manually but thats going to get old fast. i would look into a DIY light mover. i just dont think a 600w HPS is going to have a big enough footprint for 7 ft of grow space length. thats why i recomended the 6ft flouro setup, but if you can get a HID in there you will be much better off but thats going to run you more money and your going to need more equipment to keep the room cooled. with the flouro's they shouldnt heat up to the point where you need major heat exaust. again my 2¢ im definatly no pro on all subject matters. you have to remember i was basing my suggestions around a 300$ budget
 

RetiredMatthebrute

Well-Known Member
oh yeah i almost forgot.....it says that the nutrients n fertilizers are for hydroponic grows. does THAT matter
yes im pretty sure it does matter, you want to use nutes designed for soil. the Fox Farm nutes are pretty much designed with Mj in mind as well but to be honest fertilizer is fertilizer, nitrogen, potash and phosphorus are all the same no matter what package they come in. its the usability that your looking for. you want something simple designed for a soil Mj grow, Advanced is good as well if you prefer to order some of there products i say thats a great idea man. may have to order them offline and just wait for them in the mail
 

RetiredMatthebrute

Well-Known Member
last question then i'm done. if i cant' measure the ppm of what i'[m putting in the plants right away, how do i know if i'm overfertilizing or underfertilizing my plants and wouldlnt' i be able to read the run off water the NEXT time i water the plant and see somewhat where the levels were from the last time i watered the plants
from what i understand with a soil grow PPM isnt really that big of a deal opposed to a hydroponic system. some people like to measure the PPM some (like me) could care less. if you do want to measure the PPM your going to want to be measuring the water/nutrient solution you are watering with not the runoff. you can measure the runoff to get an idea of whats in the soil if you want but it probably is not necesary.

alot of people put way more than they need to into growing herb, all you need to do is provide the right conditions (water/medium/light/temp/humidity) and the plant will thrive, i take a verry basic approach to growing and i feel that all the bells and whistles ar enot really needed to end up with a good product/quantity in the end. its really up to you how much energy you want to spend on this project. me i start up a few fem seeds, toss em in some dirt and let them grow. if i see they are looking a bit light green/yellow i will feed them a little, if i notice some leaves are getting burned from ferts i flush and leave them alone. if you get that fox farm ocean forest or happy frog soil there is going to be a fair amount of nutrition in the soil and chances are you wont even need to put any fertilizers in untill flowering, remember the more fertilizer you add dosent mean the bigger your plants are going to grow, its the conditions i mentioned above that are going to make your plant grow better, good lights, temps, humidity and medium that is not saturated with fertilizer. the plant will only use what its going to use no more no less, you jst need to make sure that that nitrition is available for uptake when the plant demands it if not the plant will for sure tell you its hungry by the color of the leaves.
 

TheWiseInfidel

Active Member
incredibly informative.....and getting more specific as i keep going along. i found abundant information on soil and feeding info fox farm products ARE really the way to go and i found a store nearby that sells both fox farm soil/nutes AND pro-mix so i won't have to shell out another 20 bucks for the light warrior medium and just throw my newly germinated seeds in that. also i was originally going to go with 400watt hps after doing the research but considering the fact that i understand too well about the irregular lighting i was thinking about having 2 250w hps essentially putting out the same wattage or a little more. what i am interested in knowing is if there are digital ballasts that are designed for 250 or 150w lights OR if i would be able to use 250w lights on a 400w set up and save more money in the process. i'm considering using two lights for this reason and might even consider 2 75watt cfl but i would essentially like to have 1 cfl and one hps but i don't want to have a 250 magnetic ballast that will consume energy starting up.
 

TheWiseInfidel

Active Member
as a worse case scenario where i do decide to go with a fluorescent fixture i'm assuming a 4ft 4 bulb fixture should be long enough to illuminate all four plants according to what your saying to i wouldn't need supplementary lighting but i i can probably use that with a 75watt cfl as well for a CHEAP CHEAP alternative but let me get your opinion as to if the 2 150w-250w setup would be better if i can find digital ballast set up or if i should just say fuck it and go cheap. keep in mind that i'm TRYING to get a max yield of 5-6 bags BUT i'm very fixated on not getting less than 3 per plant which is why i am so concetrated on an hps set up to make my plants grow as high as they can go inside my closet(approx. 9 ft in height) i want my plants to grow about 6 ft maybe 7 max.
 

RetiredMatthebrute

Well-Known Member
your best bet would be 2x 600w HPS if you can go that route. im not really an expert in lighting (or anything really) but i would think that the 2x 250w would work better than a 4ft 4 tube flouro but are going to be much more expensive. im curious if you are still trying to work with the 250-300$ budget still? because it seems your spending more money than you have.

anyways, go with whatever works best for your wallet and space. for the price of the 2x 250w HPS lights you could gte 3x 4ft 4 bulb fllouro's and mount one on each wall and one above the plants and have plenty of light.

a 7ft tall plant is kinda a waste inside unless you have crazy lighting for the bottom parts of the plant as the bud sites wont get alot of light and just turn out popcorn. your better off to LST and keep the plants at about 3-4 ft and get them to bush out and have more tops, this way you can more evenly distribute the light to all the tops without having to go crazy with side lighting. then just lollypop the bottom branches that arent getting good light.
 

dkmf1

Member
Way too much reading from both of you....LOL. OP you need to take notes as you read though posts from our fellow growers. For your t5,,,,6500 is for veg and 2700 is for flowering...Get them close! And I'm a complete noobie also, but I would think a 600w hps would be plenty for 3 plants in your limited space. Not completely sure though on the hps.
 
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