Federal Appeals Court Blocks Gov. Jan Brewer's Anti-Immigrant Law

Carne Seca

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
Today the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a lower court's ruling that Arizona does not have the right to create its own laws on immigration.

The original law was enacted in April 2010 after Arizona officials argued that they needed their own immigration law to deal with the growing problem of unauthorized immigration from across the Mexican border. In general, the law establishes a variety of immigration-related actions as state offenses and defines what local and state officials can do to enforce the new law. The law immediately sparked boycotts and protests across the nation as immigration activists argued that Arizona was trying to usurp a federal prerogative to define immigration rules and had proposed unconstitutional actions, including profiling. The law also required police to check immigration status when enforcing other laws. The Obama administration's Justice Department sued to block the law from going into effect. It argued that the federal government had the responsibility for immigration law.
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Ernst

Ernst

Well-Known Member
Oh boy.. Bummer for the "Build it and Fill it" Prison industry.. They lost their funding program.

So who will the law enforcement industry target now to fill those prison cells? Liberals who defend Mexicans!

Look out.. Prison industry is looking for more prisoners in Arizona.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
oh boy, more activist judges disregarding the needs of the american people and forcing their own version of some quasi-marxist utopia down our collective throat. abolish borders, flood the market with cheap labor, create the worker's paradise of comfortable poverty and allow the ruling elite to command us all. what they seem to have conveniently ignored is that this legislation creates no new laws, it only enables more regional authorities to enforce the existing laws that the feds are unwilling to. while these petty bureaucrats are playing their little power games, the citizens of this country get to sit around as the mexican border creeps further and further northward.
 
mame

mame

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
oh boy, more activist judges disregarding the needs of the american people and forcing their own version of some quasi-marxist utopia down our collective throat. abolish borders, flood the market with cheap labor, create the worker's paradise of comfortable poverty and allow the ruling elite to command us all. what they seem to have conveniently ignored is that this legislation creates no new laws, it only enables more regional authorities to enforce the existing laws that the feds are unwilling to. while these petty bureaucrats are playing their little power games, the citizens of this country get to sit around as the mexican border creeps further and further northward.
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I've actually been giving this a lot of thought lately.

It seems - and my information is not complete on the subject - that the high number of low skilled workers entering the country illegally is contributing to the abysmal ~25% unemployment rate among young (16-24) workers. Jobs like non-union construction, fast food, retail, etc that traditionally have served as stepping stones for the young seemingly aren't there anymore.

This seems like it could be hurting the economy - and in some ways that can be very true. Without having any numbers I'd bet that luxery demand suffers as a result(due to less young people in the workforce in favor of illegals) but on the other hand these illegals do still contribute in the areas of food, housing(renting), etc... So really, it seems that the effects on demand may be negative but without numbers it's hard to tell. As far as the whole farm workers argument goes - sure, but how many illegals are working in the feilds compared to other, more desirable fields of work?

And then there is the issue that cheap immigrant labor creates downward pressure on wages (which is currently a problem, wages have barely kept up with inflation since the early 80's).

also, (warning, anecdotal) one of my first jobs during high school was at a KFC location ~2 blocks from my HS. There were maybe 18-20 employees and all but 2-3 were illegal immigrants. They were my friends (they even thought me more spanish than I ever learned in class) but I can't help but look back and think that if immigration wasn't such a prevelent "problem" (I'm not sure exactly if it is yet) that it could have just as easily been me and a bunch of kids from school working there as opposed to all of those illegals.

I guess it doesn't really matter till I get some numbers up but it is a fairly intriguing question our society will need to answer soon... Because it's not just a social issue but also an economic one.

Thoughts?
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
the mexican border creeps further and further northward.
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so, it is just mexicans? no guatemalans or other foreigners contribute to immigration?

or was that just an unintended slip that lets us all know what you REALLY object to?

damn mexicans!
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
mame said:
I've actually been giving this a lot of thought lately.

It seems - and my information is not complete on the subject - that the high number of low skilled workers entering the country illegally is contributing to the abysmal ~25% unemployment rate among young (16-24) workers. Jobs like non-union construction, fast food, retail, etc that traditionally have served as stepping stones for the young seemingly aren't there anymore.

This seems like it could be hurting the economy - and in some ways that can be very true. Without having any numbers I'd bet that luxery demand suffers as a result(due to less young people in the workforce in favor of illegals) but on the other hand these illegals do still contribute in the areas of food, housing(renting), etc... So really, it seems that the effects on demand may be negative but without numbers it's hard to tell. As far as the whole farm workers argument goes - sure, but how many illegals are working in the feilds compared to other, more desirable fields of work?

And then there is the issue that cheap immigrant labor creates downward pressure on wages (which is currently a problem, wages have barely kept up with inflation since the early 80's).

I guess it doesn't really matter till I get some numbers up but it is a fairly intriguing question our society will need to answer soon... Because it's not just a social issue but also an economic one.

Thoughts?
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you are correct. the amount of cheap labor drives down wages, but only for those that already take home a low wage and have to compete. the greatest effect is on people like myself. the type of jobs a person like me would fill have seen a dramatic decrease in wages.

that said, the most comprehensive study on the issue shows us that illegals contribute more than they receive. not to mention that they add A LOT to local economies.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undocumented/

This is the first time any state has done a comprehensive financial analysis of the impact of undocumented immigrants on a state's budget and economy, looking at gross state product, revenues generated, taxes paid and the cost of state services.
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The absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our gross state product of $17.7 billion. Undocumented immigrants produced $1.58 billion in state revenues, which exceeded the $1.16 billion in state services they received.
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mame

mame

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
you are correct. the amount of cheap labor drives down wages, but only for those that already take home a low wage and have to compete. the greatest effect is on people like myself. the type of jobs a person like me would fill have seen a dramatic decrease in wages.

that said, the most comprehensive study on the issue shows us that illegals contribute more than they receive. not to mention that they add A LOT to local economies.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undocumented/
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Pretty compelling evidence (the quotes, at least seemingly, single handedly answer my question). Thanks, I'll check the report out.

EXHIBIT 18
State Costs, Revenues and Economic Impact to Texas of Undocumented Immigrants
Fiscal Year 2005
(in millions)

Costs

Education -$967.8
Healthcare -$58.0
Incarceration -$130.6*
Total -$1,156.4

Revenues

State Revenue $999.0
School Property Tax $582.1
Total $1,581.1
Net Impact to State $424.7

Impact on the Economy

Gross State Product $17,700.0
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Pretty solid.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
mame said:
Pretty compelling evidence (the quotes, at least seemingly, single handedly answer my question). Thanks, I'll check the report out.
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i forget where i found the report/study that shows how illegal immigration drives down the earnings of low-wage workers the most, but it seems logical enough.

uti just has some sand in his vagina because his level of skill is not decent enough to be immune to this effect. we've talked about it before. he gets all butt hurt.
 
Ernst

Ernst

Well-Known Member
You guys are Tap Dancing all around that Land Mine of Illegal cheep labor.

We want to drive down wages and we want cheep labor that works 10 hours a day before they get over time.

So to point fingers at the people we love when they are picking crops for low wages 10-12 hours a day and hate when they have children who then go to school is a bit psychotic.

Again the problem is that we place public wealth into too few private wealth hands. Illegal immigration is a symptom of that disease.
 
Ernst

Ernst

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
uti just has some sand in his vagina because his level of skill is not decent enough to be immune to this effect. we've talked about it before. he gets all butt hurt.
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Your sexist comments and references to sexual conditions is unintelligent speak.
If you want more people to respect your point of view try not pandering to such a low dynamic.
It doesn't bode well with intellectual discussion.
 
R

redivider

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
oh boy, more activist judges disregarding the needs of the american people and forcing their own version of some quasi-marxist utopia down our collective throat. abolish borders, flood the market with cheap labor, create the worker's paradise of comfortable poverty and allow the ruling elite to command us all. what they seem to have conveniently ignored is that this legislation creates no new laws, it only enables more regional authorities to enforce the existing laws that the feds are unwilling to. while these petty bureaucrats are playing their little power games, the citizens of this country get to sit around as the mexican border creeps further and further northward.
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you really knocked it out of the park with this one.....

lol.... down our collective throat???? really??? the judge didn't even rule the law was unconstitutional, even though the constitution makes it pretty clear that matters of immigration are to be handled by FEDERAL authorities.

HOME RUN!!!!!
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
redivider said:
you really knocked it out of the park with this one.....

lol.... down our collective throat???? really??? the judge didn't even rule the law was unconstitutional, even though the constitution makes it pretty clear that matters of immigration are to be handled by FEDERAL authorities.

HOME RUN!!!!!
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Pick and choose what should be the responsibilities of the Federal government as it suits you, whydontcha?

Error.

There is no specific prohibition for the states to enforce immigration. It not like they are trying to print money over there. That IS specifically prohibited of the states.

Balk.

Bank robbery and kidnapping are Federal crimes. Are the states wrong to outlaw those offenses, too?

Passed ball.
 
R

redivider

Well-Known Member
Johnnyorganic said:
Pick and choose what should be the responsibilities of the Federal government as it suits you, whydontcha?

Error.

There is no specific prohibition for the states to enforce immigration. It not like they are trying to print money over there. That IS specifically prohibited of the states.

Balk.

Bank robbery and kidnapping are Federal crimes. Are the states wrong to outlaw those offenses, too?

Passed ball.
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actually since the constitution doesn't say much about the matter, courts get to decide.... they've sided with the idea that immigration and border enforcement duties fall with the federal government.....
 
R

redivider

Well-Known Member
negative. the jurisdictional can of worms could overwhelm the system.

maybe if ICE wasn't so busy fighting a loosing battle on drugs, we'd get better border enforcement.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Now there's an idea who's time has come. Let every state with an international border not only use it's already taxed enforcement arms to deal with all border issues but let them make their very own immigration laws, no two states exactly alike.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
newatit2010 said:
They need to let the fucking 9th court members support the illegal bastards.
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i believe most of the 'illegal bastards' do a fine job at supporting themselves, and often their families back home despite exploitative wages.

more than you can say for most of the legal residents of this country :o
 
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