BongerChonger
Well-Known Member
I don't know how to feel about Arijan and the Strain Hunter crew. I don't think they ruined any Landraces, so to speak, though. I think those truly untouched plants are long gone.
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F2 Pheno Hunt Advice
- Thread starter Cannaclysmic Events
- Start date
Grojak
Well-Known Member
quoting from the website below:
True Breeding Strains: Plants that have offspring of only one phenotype when mated. In true breeding strains, both alleles are the same for a gene. Since there is only one kind of allele present, mating two plants from the same strain will produce offspring that have the same phenotype and genotype as their parents. Plants or animals with two identical alleles for a gene are said to be homozygous.
Punnett Squares | Ask A Biologist
Punnett SquaresPunnett squares are a useful tool for predicting what the offspring will look like when mating plants or animals. Reginald Crundall Punnett, a mathematician, came up with these in 1905, long after Mendel's experiments. Let's take a look at how Punnet squares work using the yellow...
For further reading ou could do a deep dive into Mendels Law but it goes way deeper than most people care to know.
ALPHA.GanjaGuy
Well-Known Member
Yes, so you understand the sad sad truth about cannabis genetics and where they are right now and why so many older heads, especially breeders are scared.. soon all you'll have are cookies crappy ultra-poly's..
and, no, most really real 'breeders' do not call their releases F1's unless they are, you will notice more often now you just get a strain name instead of a strain name and "F" number
Grojak
Well-Known Member
How long have you been in the game? Denoting the F generation is a relatively new concept in weed. SSSC never stated the generation, Sensi, Serious, Greenhouse, Amsterdam in general never stated the generation. We just bought their seeds because A. We could and had no where else to go and B.. We saw pics and articles in magazines. Those days are long gone.
Denoting the F generation is a selling point for breeders and seed growers alike (hype will also sell a lot of seeds). It shows the work the breeder did, you’re putting you trust in that breeder to make good selections and put out a quality strain.
By F3/F4 iyou can call a cross a strain. If it was a BX4 it’s be ~93% the original mom. I currently have a cross at F2 I’m taking deeper, I already have a name for it but the F1, F2 don’ get that name.
How would you propose breeders label their crosses they’re working, what would work for you?
ALPHA.GanjaGuy
Well-Known Member
most of them were selling F1's and/or less interested in the science of it and more interested in the money from it..
when you sell an F1 it's kind of redundant to call it an F1 as most people just call them whatever the cross is; 'nl x white widow' for example rather than give them a unique strain name in case nothing great comes from it. If something great is found, is often when that strain was named then became a line to be worked over time. Really only F2 and above would need a filial label right? So someone can look back at it's lineage to see?
many growers do the same thing now, buy based on the pic that looked "fire" (sadly), I see many not even curious what was used to create the cross..
denoting the generation matters to probably less than half of people growing. it is a selling point to those of us that it matters to and that understand what it means and breeders, etc. many current growers don't even know what it means and could care less.
I have seen great strains come from F1 and some garbage come from higher filial generations, just because you can keep a line going does not mean it is making it better or should be done.
if that works for you, go for it, I am not here to tell anyone what to do, I am only pointing out the facts that most home growers are using these terms incorrectly.. it happens in other fields to besides cannabis.. it is what it is.
as far as I can see the term F1 (2,3,4,etc) for plants has been used since the late 1400's? cannabis is not special when it comes to filial terms
Yes it can be a selling point but more so when you are talking about higher generations which most of today's modern 'breeders' don't bother with sadly..
BX would also be assuming you are back crossing with the original mother plant, not just the a female of the same strain.
As I have said already, I am not telling anyone how to name or talk about anything. Just sharing that most of us have been using the terms wrong. If anything I would prefer breeders just use the terms properly but I'm not holding my breath lol
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It's feeling like you are thinking I am arguing with you or that I came up with all this myself. I am not and I did not. This is science and the terms and rules were laid out before either of us ever popped our first seeds. Below is a link to the wiki regarding filial generations and all that, I'm sure some googling and you can find much more about the topic.
F1 hybrid - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
ALPHA.GanjaGuy
Well-Known Member
on a side note, any updates on your projects? I have seen Blue Satellite Redux and Simon’s Quest mentioned on other forums, are you still working these lines?
Only some places are so luckily they didnt get to all the good places they certainly messed with malana valley and bits of south africa and also Jamaica to a certain extent now they in thailand too give it time there but there is still some pure smaller pockets even in India and the like but there few and far between and becoming rarer by the day India and nepal are especially getting hit bad with hybrids these days jamaica been so for years already as well and south africa is full of greenhouse cheese s1s i dont agree with there ethics at all personally not saying all there stuffs bad just there morals/business model there assholes who pollute countrys of source so others cant have it pure pretty much imo they deny it yet continue to do it so take what you want from that
ALPHA.GanjaGuy
Well-Known Member
give us all your landrace, heirlooms and otherwise pure seeds, here's some cookies..
Sady yes and u cant blame the farmers so much they dont all realise what they got till its lost there just trying to provide for there family and such its no hobby to these guys they get a higher price for hybrid weed in India and nepal etc vs there own traditional stuff so its hard for many to resist to me companies like ghs have a touch of colonialism about themgive us all your landrace, heirlooms and otherwise pure seeds, here's some cookies..
BongerChonger
Well-Known Member
I'll reserve how I feel about the Strain Hunter crew. I have my own gripes too.
Yes.
But...they're not Landrace, really, they're just groups of farmers, growing the same seed, year to year.
Obviously still lots of trade that happens and probably has for thousands of years.
I just mean, in that sense, nothing's really changed.
The Church project for instance helped the farmers improve their yield and disease resistance.
Benefited the farmers and the crops.
The local seed will eventually take over again, after a while.
Would take a lot more than that for Church to take over. It's hundreds, thousands of years, vs a very small fraction of time.
To me, it's the farming practices the locals are doing right for inbred seed, often without meaning to.
They're just sprouting seeds and growing a crop, year to year.
But, it's the large fields of plants in those local environments, seeding itself each year.
Whether or not intentional on the growers part, it's better breeding, if what you want is inbred seed.
Modern Cannabis, there's too much reliance on finding 1 nice female, 1 nice male, crossing them and calling it "F1 Bubble Pop" or whatever.
Or using 1 good male to hit a whole room of different female cultivars.
It's not good for the genetics and probably much of what you guys are on about? (I think)
But that's from a breeding stand-point, not necessarily a commercial one.
In many ways it's good those same breeders get to hold onto their favourite cuts and seeds, without having to share.
It's a relatively simple way of getting much the same resulting seed each time too.
Saves on money and time.
And, growers who enjoyed F1 Bubble Pop, will come back to grow some again, because the F2s won't be the same.
Yeah, but...you're asking for more of the same problem if everyone in the world starts getting all these rare seeds.give us all your landrace, heirlooms and otherwise pure seeds, here's some cookies..
It's the commercial weed industry that's mostly the problem. Every consumer wants the new cookie flavour.
Blame the consumer.
It's availability not scarcity that's the problem.
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Grojak
Well-Known Member
BSR is being worked and in 2nd generation,I’m doing all the testing myself (despite giving testers out to 6 other people who promised to grow). Running my mother for the 2nd year OD, she proved to be pest and mold resistant last year (the SQ flowers way tooong for outdoor here, though I tried last year. SQ is on hold but I’m currently 30 days into a pollination run.
Whats not exactly landrace ? Well it wont be now if ghs has polluted it obviously also they may do some charity they call it lol but no wonder the amount of money they make off the backs of these farmers kinda least they can do
Cannaclysmic Events
Well-Known Member
It's from UFO Genetics, called Breakthrough (mendo breath f2 x grateful breath f2).
It's on sale for $40
Cannaclysmic Events
Well-Known Member
Indeed
Cannaclysmic Events
Well-Known Member
For $40 a pack I figure I could afford a decent head count and get lucky. I have smoked both parents and grown one, both produce exquisite bud with common lineage so it should be a nice pairing, right?
Cannaclysmic Events
Well-Known Member
I did something similar with Chron Don's Fire Berries (blueberry x xxx)xFire Alien Kush. Caught them on sale for around $20 a pack. Hunted five packs and found some amazing plants.
HenryTheEighth
Well-Known Member
As far as advice goes:
I would say you are not on an f2 pheno hunt.
You are poly hybrid pheno hunting.
It’s all the same game anyway.
If you are running poly’s or f-gen or Bx1,2,3 or landrace it’s ALL about the 10% rule.
The best plants are in the 10% no matter what you run.
You sound like you are already killing it if you run up to five packs to find the few amazing plants.
Way i see it every seed pack should have at least one keeper in it however unicorn level type plants that are on a whole other level/league of there own those are way rarer unless you get lucky of course those usually take lots of numbers to find
HenryTheEighth
Well-Known Member
Indeed sir. You know these breeders selling five packs of regs have me ready to call bullshit on that practice because as you say a pack should hold the promise of ‘one keeper’.
I have yet to see any breeders say how many packs you need to find the unicorns. They just want people to think they will get one in a five pack or ten pack.
I mean CSI has an S1 Triangle kush cut they call 5150. So was that plant number 5150? So over 5000 got run to find a better version of the parent?? That’s hardcore if that’s the case.
ALPHA.GanjaGuy
Well-Known Member
5150 has many other meanings from being a van halen album to emergency 72-hour hold for mental illness and much more, I doubt it refers to which plant they used, also never trust a breeders number, some inflate their numbers by starting counting at higher numbers, for example, starting at 300 and each plant after being 301, 302, etc instead of just saying 1, 2, 3.. this (the last I read) was being done to make people believe they went through far more plants to make their selection to make it seem like more work was done in the line..
on average I hear breeders say unicorns are found in about 100 seeds or 10, 10-packs with usually at least a decent keeper found in a pack