F2 Pheno Hunt Advice

Cannaclysmic Events

Well-Known Member
Hi. I'm thinking about looking for a keeper in a Mendo Breath F2 x Grateful Breath F2. Any suggestions on how many beans should be used vs an F1 hunt? "As many as possible" is the standard for F1 I believe, is there limited expressions in F2's like this would that throttle back the need for so many?
 

budolskie

Well-Known Member
Hi. I'm thinking about looking for a keeper in a Mendo Breath F2 x Grateful Breath F2. Any suggestions on how many beans should be used vs an F1 hunt? "As many as possible" is the standard for F1 I believe, is there limited expressions in F2's like this would that throttle back the need for so many?
Is a (mendo breath f2 x grateful breath f2)
not a f1 Generation of this cross or do u mean a f2 of this cross
 

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
Why wouldn't the first filial generation in a "polyhybrid" be termed F1 seed?
Personally, I believe technically it would be an F1. However, I've had people in recent years claim that isn't true. I really don't understand what they are thinking and what defines a "parent generation" to develop an F1 from the cross. As far as I know/believe, the results from any direct cross of two unrelated genetics would result in an F1 offspring.
 

Grojak

Well-Known Member
Personally, I believe technically it would be an F1. However, I've had people in recent years claim that isn't true. I really don't understand what they are thinking and what defines a "parent generation" to develop an F1 from the cross. As far as I know/believe, the results from any direct cross of two unrelated genetics would result in an F1 offspring.
F1 for sure, 2 strains bred together make an F1 generation.

Riddle me this: What would you call - Kush F2 x Kush F4 (same lineage) :)
 

conor c

Well-Known Member
Personally, I believe technically it would be an F1. However, I've had people in recent years claim that isn't true. I really don't understand what they are thinking and what defines a "parent generation" to develop an F1 from the cross. As far as I know/believe, the results from any direct cross of two unrelated genetics would result in an F1 offspring.
To be a true f1 means both parents originated far away from each other/ are untelated to ensure maximum hybrid vigour ie a true f1 most of these poly chucks are called f1 but they sure as hell dont have the vigour like a real one though
 

ALPHA.GanjaGuy

Well-Known Member
As far as I know/believe, the results from any direct cross of two unrelated genetics would result in an F1 offspring.
you would have to check by going all the way up the family tree.. usually you will find relatives not far up.. it's one reason you hear and see people trying to do preservation grows and open pollinations on some strains that are still somewhat not poly-ed up and why many people are starting to gravitate to heirlooms and land races when they want some vigor

Why wouldn't the first filial generation in a "polyhybrid" be termed F1 seed?
they (mendo breath and grateful breath) share a parent..

F1 for sure, 2 strains bred together make an F1 generation.
cannabis breeding is not this black and white

To be a true f1 means both parents originated far away from each other/ are untelated to ensure maximum hybrid vigour ie a true f1 most of these poly chucks are called f1 but they sure as hell dont have the vigour like a real one though
^^^
you can't make a true F1 with combining two poly's or two hybrids for the most part.. I'm not going to call myself an expert or a breeder but I have my goals..

A true F1 is made with two genetically stable and unrelated plants (all the way up the family tree). typically the entire point is to bring something to the table the other doesn't have and is stable in the plant with it so it passes onto the progeny. most people just think an F1 is any new strain created from crossing two strains but that would be the lazy mans understanding of it (no offense to anyone).. a random x is just a hybrid or poly-hybrid most of the time nowadays. true f1's typically come stable due to both parents being stable lines (ibl in some cases).. this is why breeders often have to take them to F2 to "open up" the gene pool when they are searching for specific traits for a line.. but I mean, who works lines anymore? so.. yea.. :cry:

when you find a true F1 and experience real hybrid vigor it's astonishing..

polyhybrid's are much less stable and predictable, as the "F1" does not have stable genetics usually. Polyhybrids are great for experimentation, as the genetic diversity is broad and they can exhibit unexpected and desirable traits.
 
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ALPHA.GanjaGuy

Well-Known Member
Id call it kush its just a bx1 by seed technically even tho its same seedstock cos its f2 x f4
a true BX would be F2 (3, 4, 5, 6, etc) crossed to one of the original parents, not original parent strain but original parent plants

back cross is another term being abused by the modern seed industry

I have seen some breeders use BX to mean one original parent with one progeny filial and BC (or Bc) to indicate progeny x any plant that was the same strain as the parents of it

I would probably use that, BC (a loosey goosey back cross of sorts)
 

MtRainDog

Well-Known Member
a true BX would be F2 (3, 4, 5, 6, etc) crossed to one of the original parents, not original parent strain but original parent plants

back cross is another term being abused by the modern seed industry

I have seen some breeders use BX to mean one original parent with one progeny filial and BC (or Bc) to indicate progeny x any plant that was the same strain as the parents of it

I would probably use that, BC (a loosey goosey back cross of sorts)
Yeah you see a lot of that tossed around loosely. Also IBL's and IX's.

From what I understand, anytime you cross the same line at different filial generations (i.e. f2 x f4), you genetically end up, roughly, at the earlier filial generation of the pair (i.e. f2 x f4 = f2). The resulting "f2" is going to differ somewhat from the f2 used in the cross.

Good f2's should express all the desirable traits you're looking for, but scattered across the phenotypes. I imagine color, height, plant structure, smells even are selected easily enough. Selecting males for potency has always been the tricky aspect.
 
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Grojak

Well-Known Member
you would have to check by going all the way up the family tree.. usually you will find relatives not far up.. it's one reason you hear and see people trying to do preservation grows and open pollinations on some strains that are still somewhat not poly-ed up and why many people are starting to gravitate to heirlooms and land races when they want some vigor


they (mendo breath and grateful breath) share a parent..


cannabis breeding is not this black and white


^^^
you can't make a true F1 with combining two poly's or two hybrids for the most part.. I'm not going to call myself an expert or a breeder but I have my goals..

A true F1 is made with two genetically stable and unrelated plants (all the way up the family tree). typically the entire point is to bring something to the table the other doesn't have and is stable in the plant with it so it passes onto the progeny. most people just think an F1 is any new strain created from crossing two strains but that would be the lazy mans understanding of it (no offense to anyone).. a random x is just a hybrid or poly-hybrid most of the time nowadays. true f1's typically come stable due to both parents being stable lines (ibl in some cases).. this is why breeders often have to take them to F2 to "open up" the gene pool when they are searching for specific traits for a line.. but I mean, who works lines anymore? so.. yea.. :cry:

when you find a true F1 and experience real hybrid vigor it's astonishing..

polyhybrid's are much less stable and predictable, as the "F1" does not have stable genetics usually. Polyhybrids are great for experimentation, as the genetic diversity is broad and they can exhibit unexpected and desirable traits.
The true F1 you refer to, I assume. are two strains that breed true. If we only called 2 true breeding strains F1’s then we would have 20? f1 strains maybe? Even strains that are stable and produce very similar pheno’s run after run may not breed true.

F1 works in a situation where you cross 2 strains, unless you’re crossing strain Y x (Strain Y x Strain Z), but I know you know.

What has almost been lost due to efforts by Arijan and the expansion of the west into remote societies are the P1’s, the untouched landraces.
 

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
The true F1 you refer to, I assume. are two strains that breed true. If we only called 2 true breeding strains F1’s then we would have 20? f1 strains maybe? Even strains that are stable and produce very similar pheno’s run after run may not breed true.

F1 works in a situation where you cross 2 strains, unless you’re crossing strain Y x (Strain Y x Strain Z), but I know you know.

What has almost been lost due to efforts by Arijan and the expansion of the west into remote societies are the P1’s, the untouched landraces.
What do you mean by “breed true?”
Sorry to hijack
 
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