Examples of GOP Leadership

Highway61 said:

I hope you are right but I'm not confident about that. Justice Gorsuch gave a speech in 2022 in which he referred to the "so called" separation of church and state. He was signaling his agreement with the religious right that he did not believe in that idea consistent with the Federalist Society which is the organization picking right wing federal judges for right wing presidents. Separation of Church and State may not get the same kind of treatment as in the past with right wing religious conservatives now making up a 6-3 majority. This is the moment the Federalist Society has been working toward since 1982. I'm not optimistic about their intentions to keep religion out of public schools.

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If the democrats win enough majorities in the congress, they will attack the magat justices and Thomas is top of the list for an impeachment inquiry. Garland should indict Thomas he is a government employee in the end and failed to report income and there are other issues as well and more could be uncovered by the FBI.

You say, but it will only end up in court, and I say great, because a jury will convict Thomas and if it gets to the SCOTUS, the other justices get to pass judgement on him, or he and they are above the law. At the same time there would be an impeachment investigation and congressional subpoenas issued. If the republican justices refuse, then summon them for an impeachment trial in the senate after a vote in the house for defying their subpoena, play hard ball and use the bat on them too.

DIY-HP-LED said:

If the democrats win enough majorities in the congress, they will attack the magat justices and Thomas is top of the list for an impeachment inquiry. Garland should indict Thomas he is a government employee in the end and failed to report income and there are other issues as well and more could be uncovered by the FBI.

You say, but it will only end up in court, and I say great, because a jury will convict Thomas and if it gets to the SCOTUS, the other justices get to pass judgement on him, or he and they are above the law. At the same time there would be an impeachment investigation and congressional subpoenas issued. If the republican justices refuse, then summon them for an impeachment trial in the senate after a vote in the house for defying their subpoena, play hard ball and use the bat on them too.

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Impeachment is not as effective as James Madison thought it would be when he wrote the Constitution. And the Supreme Court already legalized bribery with the Citizens United case so unless more comes out about Thomas, his financial relationships with right wing supporters will probably be a source of outrage but little else. I want to believe that the Supreme Court can be saved but I think it more likely that we are stuck with it for a long time. McConnell packed the court with younger, hard right wing nuts who will put their stamp of idiocy on the federal judiciary for a couple of decades.

What was once the greatest judicial system in the world is now led by a partisan circle jerk of religious fanaticism. Clarence Thomas was the beginning of the Supremes' downfall. He was never qualified for that position. He was never even a Judge. He was a legislative assistant for John Danforth and worked in the US Dept. of Education before his nomination to the Supremes. At least he knew his limitations and kept his mouth shut for decades. But he now has the chance to repay his benefactors and he will - carefully packaged to pass whatever ethics rules Roberts tries to impose.

This is not what James Madison intended but it is what we have. So long as the GOP appoints partisans and politicians to the Federal Judiciary, they will control public policy without having to win elections. The claw back will likely take decades.

Highway61 said:

Impeachment is not as effective as James Madison thought it would be when he wrote the Constitution. And the Supreme Court already legalized bribery with the Citizens United case so unless more comes out about Thomas, his financial relationships with right wing supporters will probably be a source of outrage but little else. I want to believe that the Supreme Court can be saved but I think it more likely that we are stuck with it for a long time. McConnell packed the court with younger, hard right wing nuts who will put their stamp of idiocy on the federal judiciary for a couple of decades.

What was once the greatest judicial system in the world is now led by a partisan circle jerk of religious fanaticism. Clarence Thomas was the beginning of the Supremes' downfall. He was never qualified for that position. He was never even a Judge. He was a legislative assistant for John Danforth and worked in the US Dept. of Education before his nomination to the Supremes. At least he knew his limitations and kept his mouth shut for decades. But he now has the chance to repay his benefactors and he will - carefully packaged to pass whatever ethics rules Roberts tries to impose.

This is not what James Madison intended but it is what we have. So long as the GOP appoints partisans and politicians to the Federal Judiciary, they will control public policy without having to win elections. The claw back will likely take decades.

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If the democrats win in 24 they can have impeachment investigations for 4 of them, Thomas, Alito, Kavanagh and conehead. They either lied at their confirmations or were not vetted properly and could be impeached. Failure to appear for a congressional subpoena would be grounds for impeachment. There is no statute of limitations on this shit and impeachment is a political act not a legal one. Go for the low hanging fruit first with Thomas and have an impeachment trial, a real one, in the senate with witnesses and evidence. As for the rest, they might not even make it to an impeachment vote in the house, but will be under oath again in public this time. They can always resign and Thomas can retire, but if they start violating fundamental rights and overturning precedent, play hardball, if you have the majorities in congress. Even if you can't get a conviction at trial, they will be on notice that if you do end up with 66 seats in the senate they are as good as gone even if it takes a decade and several impeachment trials to get there.

If the republicans lose this time the democrats will not fuck around if they win, foxnews will be gone, HR1 and voting rights passed along with media reform, gun control, measures, abortion rights and anti-domestic terrorism laws and a domestic terrorist list. It looks like a perfect storm for the GOP in 24 and if they lose big enough the democrats will exterminate them as a constitutional duty, they are it's enemy and have made that clear enough so that doing them is the constitutional duty of every patriot. You don't need to convince everybody, just enough to win and the public is ready for change and to move ahead. Keep them out of power for a couple of election cycles and generational and demographic change will do the rest along with getting rid of foxnews and any replacements. The republicans get billions in free advertising and are in an illegal conspiracy with the GOP and is its defacto propaganda wing 24/7. The republicans are completely dependent on culture wars and false narratives spread by foxnews, get rid of them and you will cut the republican party off at the knees.

DIY-HP-LED said:

If the democrats win enough majorities in the congress, they will attack the magat justices and Thomas is top of the list for an impeachment inquiry. Garland should indict Thomas he is a government employee in the end and failed to report income and there are other issues as well and more could be uncovered by the FBI.

You say, but it will only end up in court, and I say great, because a jury will convict Thomas and if it gets to the SCOTUS, the other justices get to pass judgement on him, or he and they are above the law. At the same time there would be an impeachment investigation and congressional subpoenas issued. If the republican justices refuse, then summon them for an impeachment trial in the senate after a vote in the house for defying their subpoena, play hard ball and use the bat on them too.

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It takes a 2/3rds majority in the senate to impeach either a supreme court justice, or a president.
The last time democrats held a 2/3rds majority was in 1967....Of course the republicans have never held a 2/3rds majority, so we are ahead of them, statistically, but statistics don't help right now.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/jun/25/control-house-and-senate-1900/
Unless and until the democrats can make some preliminary changes, nothing major is going to happen in 24, it will take the whole electoral cycle, and probably the next one as well, to set up the dominoes, and the republicans will be doing their best to kick them over the whole time.
The only potentially earth shattering changes you might reasonably expect in 24 are indictments from Georgia coming down, and potentially federal indictments coming down...IF they EVER finish the investigation...

Roger A. Shrubber said:

It takes a 2/3rds majority in the senate to impeach either a supreme court justice, or a president.
The last time democrats held a 2/3rds majority was in 1967....Of course the republicans have never held a 2/3rds majority, so we are ahead of them, statistically, but statistics don't help right now.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/jun/25/control-house-and-senate-1900/
Unless and until the democrats can make some preliminary changes, nothing major is going to happen in 24, it will take the whole electoral cycle, and probably the next one as well, to set up the dominoes, and the republicans will be doing their best to kick them over the whole time.
The only potentially earth shattering changes you might reasonably expect in 24 are indictments from Georgia coming down, and potentially federal indictments coming down...IF they EVER finish the investigation...

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I know you won't be able to find Thomas guilty in the senate, but chuck runs the place, and you could have a real trial with evidence this time. I think Garland should indict him if he committed a crime, any other civil servant would have been fired on the spot, he is a government employee, start treating him like one and not above the law. What if Clarence decides to shoot someone on 5th avenue? Does the DOJ guidance make them immune from prosecution for life? A president gets it for his term only. These people are either above the law or under it and the way to find out is to prosecute Thomas. It will work its way through the appeal process until it gets to all 9 justices, because Thomas won't recuse himself from his own case. Then if convicted send him to prison, justice or not, then let him come back to the SCOTUS as a convicted felon who would then be impeached. Because the fucking clown will not resign or retire. Don't be afraid to lose in court or in the senate, do the right thing anyway.

DIY-HP-LED said:

I know you won't be able to find Thomas guilty in the senate, but chuck runs the place, and you could have a real trial with evidence this time. I think Garland should indict him if he committed a crime, any other civil servant would have been fired on the spot, he is a government employee, start treating him like one and not above the law. What if Clarence decides to shoot someone on 5th avenue? Does the DOJ guidance make them immune from prosecution for life? A president gets it for his term only. These people are either above the law or under it and the way to find out is to prosecute Thomas. It will work its way through the appeal process until it gets to all 9 justices, because Thomas won't recuse himself from his own case. Then if convicted send him to prison, justice or not, then let him come back to the SCOTUS as a convicted felon who would then be impeached. Because the fucking clown will not resign or retire. Don't be afraid to lose in court or in the senate, do the right thing anyway.

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i could give a flying fuck at a rolling rat's hemorrhoidal asshole if thomas goes to prison, i want the fucker off of the bench. If they put him in prison, and don't remove him from the bench, then he can't be replaced until the democrats actually get a 2/3rds majority. The shameless garbage republicans will leave him on the bench until they get in power again so they can hand pick his successor...even without thomases vote, they still have a majority...There are 6 of them, and 3 liberal justices...without thomas it's still 5 to 3...We need to not only remove thomas and one of the others, we need to do it at a time when we can control who replaces them, and that ain't at the moment.

DIY-HP-LED said:

I know you won't be able to find Thomas guilty in the senate, but chuck runs the place, and you could have a real trial with evidence this time. I think Garland should indict him if he committed a crime, any other civil servant would have been fired on the spot, he is a government employee, start treating him like one and not above the law. What if Clarence decides to shoot someone on 5th avenue? Does the DOJ guidance make them immune from prosecution for life? A president gets it for his term only. These people are either above the law or under it and the way to find out is to prosecute Thomas. It will work its way through the appeal process until it gets to all 9 justices, because Thomas won't recuse himself from his own case. Then if convicted send him to prison, justice or not, then let him come back to the SCOTUS as a convicted felon who would then be impeached. Because the fucking clown will not resign or retire. Don't be afraid to lose in court or in the senate, do the right thing anyway.

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Impeachment without conviction is likely to energize GOP voters.

What James Madison got wrong about impeachment was that he did not expect that political parties would come to dominate American elections and that political parties would not allow their members to vote for conviction of another member of that party. Madison even argued in favor of ratification of the Constitution because it would tend to undercut political parties which he considered to be inconsistent with good representative government. He was half right on that. Factions are not good for America. And factionalism has turned impeachment into a political weapon that backfires.

Highway61 said:

Impeachment without conviction is likely to energize GOP voters.

What James Madison got wrong about impeachment was that he did not expect that political parties would come to dominate American elections and that political parties would not allow their members to vote for conviction of another member of that party. Madison even argued in favor of ratification of the Constitution because it would tend to undercut political parties which he considered to be inconsistent with good representative government. He was half right on that. Factions are not good for America. And factionalism has turned impeachment into a political weapon that backfires.

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i'm not sure that he didn't expect parties to dominate politics, i think he didn't expect it to only be two parties...Both guilty of suppressing competition, purposely limiting the field for their own advantage...I used to think Europeans were weird and dumb, with 15 political parties per country, but now i see the danger of a two party system, It's so easy for one party to subvert the system, to gain unfair advantage, to exploit wealthy donors, who are in turn exploiting the recipients of their donations...

Roger A. Shrubber said:

i could give a flying fuck at a rolling rat's hemorrhoidal asshole if thomas goes to prison, i want the fucker off of the bench. If they put him in prison, and don't remove him from the bench, then he can't be replaced until the democrats actually get a 2/3rds majority. The shameless garbage republicans will leave him on the bench until they get in power again so they can hand pick his successor...even without thomases vote, they still have a majority...There are 6 of them, and 3 liberal justices...without thomas it's still 5 to 3...We need to not only remove thomas and one of the others, we need to do it at a time when we can control who replaces them, and that ain't at the moment.

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Nothing happens, except perhaps indictment for crimes, unless the democrats win a majority in the house and a real one in the senate. If he's doing time in a cell, he won't be working on any cases. Impeaching him would be easier if he were a convicted felon and an excon. If these pricks wanna carry the bastard, then make him a very heavy burden to bear. They might only need 12 or so republicans to convict him in the senate after a long humiliating trial of an excon justice! Fuck them, and this is how. If he committed crimes then treat him like any other government official who did the same, there have been plenty of judges busted and sent to prison. There is no fucking halo around these clowns Trump or Thomas, they are not too big to fail or sent to jail. Make them defend the indefensible, but never ever make it easy for them, make it dangerous.

Highway61 said:

Impeachment without conviction is likely to energize GOP voters.

What James Madison got wrong about impeachment was that he did not expect that political parties would come to dominate American elections and that political parties would not allow their members to vote for conviction of another member of that party. Madison even argued in favor of ratification of the Constitution because it would tend to undercut political parties which he considered to be inconsistent with good representative government. He was half right on that. Factions are not good for America. And factionalism has turned impeachment into a political weapon that backfires.

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Did he write that supreme court justices are above the law? That they can't be indicted and convicted by a jury. So, what if the appeal goes to the SCOTUS, it will put them on the spot, are they above the law or not? A convicted felon is easier to impeach when you get the house back.

DIY-HP-LED said:

Nothing happens, except perhaps indictment for crimes, unless the democrats win a majority in the house and a real one in the senate. If he's doing time in a cell, he won't be working on any cases. Impeaching him would be easier if he were a convicted felon and an excon. If these pricks wanna carry the bastard, then make him a very heavy burden to bear. They might only need 12 or so republicans to convict him in the senate after a long humiliating trial of an excon justice! Fuck them, and this is how. If he committed crimes then treat him like any other government official who did the same, there have been plenty of judges busted and sent to prison. There is no fucking halo around these clowns Trump or Thomas, they are not too big to fail or sent to jail. Make them defend the indefensible, but never ever make it easy for them, make it dangerous.

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right now it's 49 republicans, 48 democrats, and 3 independents that caucus with the democrats...they would need to get 15 republicans to vote with them, IF the entire party votes the same way....and i have VERY little faith in manchin.
I'm not saying don't send him to jail, But i am saying it won't make any difference politically. The conservatives still have a 2 person majority, one of them can abstain and they still win...putting him in jail is small beans, getting him off the bench while we control who goes onto it is a much bigger deal, and that ain't gonna happen.
Lock him up, but it's just symbolism, he can refuse to give up his seat, until the republicans can pick his replacement...because 15 republicans are NEVER going to cross that aisle.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

right now it's 49 republicans, 48 democrats, and 3 independents that caucus with the democrats...they would need to get 15 republicans to vote with them, IF the entire party votes the same way....and i have VERY little faith in manchin.
I'm not saying don't send him to jail, But i am saying it won't make any difference politically. The conservatives still have a 2 person majority, one of them can abstain and they still win...putting him in jail is small beans, getting him off the bench while we control who goes onto it is a much bigger deal, and that ain't gonna happen.
Lock him up, but it's just symbolism, he can refuse to give up his seat, until the republicans can pick his replacement...because 15 republicans are NEVER going to cross that aisle.

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We will see what happens after 24, I have a feeling the republicans are gonna take an ass pounding in the election, there seems to be a perfect storm brewing for them and internally they are in disarray and the shit has yet to hit the fan over J6. Abortion and guns will probably drive the most turnout, the women have lots of time to organize and get out the vote this time. Before then there could be a few republican senators caught up in J6, anybody that Jack indicts for conspiracy is as guilty as Trump and that should terrify almost all of them. If they have anything to sell for deal, it will be a senator or congress person. Once the indictments drop, there will be a traffic jam at Jack's office door, first in with the most to sell gets the best deal. If Jack scoops up a large number of them and indicts them for conspiracy, the prison sentences would terrify them. Round two is where he nails Gym and others in congress, some wanted pardons for a reason, and we only know about a few, there are probably more.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

right now it's 49 republicans, 48 democrats, and 3 independents that caucus with the democrats...they would need to get 15 republicans to vote with them, IF the entire party votes the same way....and i have VERY little faith in manchin.
I'm not saying don't send him to jail, But i am saying it won't make any difference politically. The conservatives still have a 2 person majority, one of them can abstain and they still win...putting him in jail is small beans, getting him off the bench while we control who goes onto it is a much bigger deal, and that ain't gonna happen.
Lock him up, but it's just symbolism, he can refuse to give up his seat, until the republicans can pick his replacement...because 15 republicans are NEVER going to cross that aisle.

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Look at what Mark Meadows is facing when Jack indicts him over J6 along with Trump and others for conspiracy of something or another, they are all as guilty as Trump and all subject to the same long prison sentences. That is when the squeeze starts, then, there is Georgia and Mark would need a deal there too, because that is yet another conspiracy case that carries heavy time. Mark would have to plead in Georgia and DC and testify in both trials, while spilling his guts in debriefings that might take weeks or months. They don't need him to convict Trump over J6 or the docs and the only people he could sell out are senators and congress people, the more he coughs up the more time he gets off and his lawyer would be cutting the deals for him. He was conspiracy central and knows where all the bodies are buried.

DIY-HP-LED said:

We will see what happens after 24, I have a feeling the republicans are gonna take an ass pounding in the election, there seems to be a perfect storm brewing for them and internally they are in disarray and the shit has yet to hit the fan over J6. Abortion and guns will probably drive the most turnout, the women have lots of time to organize and get out the vote this time. Before then there could be a few republican senators caught up in J6, anybody that Jack indicts for conspiracy is as guilty as Trump and that should terrify almost all of them. If they have anything to sell for deal, it will be a senator or congress person. Once the indictments drop, there will be a traffic jam at Jack's office door, first in with the most to sell gets the best deal. If Jack scoops up a large number of them and indicts them for conspiracy, the prison sentences would terrify them. Round two is where he nails Gym and others in congress, some wanted pardons for a reason, and we only know about a few, there are probably more.

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and last time around, there was a red wave brewing that never reached shore...After 57 years living in this country, the one thing i can reliably predict is that no one knows what will happen in an American election...we're talking about a race between a 78 year old and an 80 year old...either one of them could have a heart attack or a stroke, or just drop dead...they're both under a lot of stress. Someone very attractive to independents could declare and skew the entire field...I would be VERY surprised if any federal indictments come down before the election, at the rate they seem to be making progress.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

and last time around, there was a red wave brewing that never reached shore...After 57 years living in this country, the one thing i can reliably predict is that no one knows what will happen in an American election...we're talking about a race between a 78 year old and an 80 year old...either one of them could have a heart attack or a stroke, or just drop dead...they're both under a lot of stress. Someone very attractive to independents could declare and skew the entire field...I would be VERY surprised if any federal indictments come down before the election, at the rate they seem to be making progress.

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Well, Georgia just announced a time frame for conspiracy indictments, July11 to Sept 1st. I think she wants to scare up some more rats, because conspiracy or racketeering are serious crimes, more serious than just election interference, we are talking the rest of their lives for most.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

right now it's 49 republicans, 48 democrats, and 3 independents that caucus with the democrats...they would need to get 15 republicans to vote with them, IF the entire party votes the same way....and i have VERY little faith in manchin.
I'm not saying don't send him to jail, But i am saying it won't make any difference politically. The conservatives still have a 2 person majority, one of them can abstain and they still win...putting him in jail is small beans, getting him off the bench while we control who goes onto it is a much bigger deal, and that ain't gonna happen.
Lock him up, but it's just symbolism, he can refuse to give up his seat, until the republicans can pick his replacement...because 15 republicans are NEVER going to cross that aisle.

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If the Republicans effectively block any restraints on Thomas, that gives the Biden administration a motive and a long lever to expand the bench.

cannabineer said:

If the Republicans effectively block any restraints on Thomas, that gives the Biden administration a motive and a long lever to expand the bench.

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Actually, the more trouble over Thomas and even a criminal indictment would help that a lot, he is a government employee, who draws a government salary, treat him like any other government employee who did this kind of shit, he is in an appointed office, not an elected one and they bust elected officials all the time and there have been many judges convicted of crimes while serving on the bench, some are currently in prison. It is easier to impeach a convicted felon, even if he only gets a fine.

DIY-HP-LED said:

Actually, the more trouble over Thomas and even a criminal indictment would help that a lot, he is a government employee, who draws a government salary, treat him like any other government employee who did this kind of shit, he is in an appointed office, not an elected one and they bust elected officials all the time and there have been many judges convicted of crimes while serving on the bench, some are currently in prison. It is easier to impeach a convicted felon, even if he only gets a fine.

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I do not think this is realistic.

cannabineer said:

If the Republicans effectively block any restraints on Thomas, that gives the Biden administration a motive and a long lever to expand the bench.

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And the next time the republican are in power, they do the same...We all know they don't need excuses, they just commit the crimes and then ignore them.

cannabineer said:

I do not think this is realistic.

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Did he break criminal law? Can Garland make the case in court before a grand jury and then a jury? It is a grand jury that indicts him, and another jury would convict him, it's not even up to a judge in a lower court, it's the jury's call and the Judge applies the sentence according to the guidelines. If he broke the law and if can be proven, then it is up to Garland to indict him, and he has a great deal of latitude and was a senor federal judge himself. Thomas brings the justice system ill repute and undermines the faith in the justice system. But it is easier to impeach a convict, even if you don't have 66 democrats, make the republicans defend him after a TV trial in the senate where all the evidence used to convict him will be presented again. If it was good enough for 12 citizens... You don't make omelets without breaking eggs.