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woodsmantoker

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
Vertical Screening Vs Horizontal.

When asked of most professional horticulturist the question: "Should I train my plants during flowering?" the answer is often unanimously similar and also answers the question of Vertical Vs Horizontal Scrog.

Most experienced cultivators agree that added stress during flowering takes away from the objective. If a plants available energy is being spent on response to stress, it is spending available energy not on flowering or cannabinoid development. Thus; Any method that leaves the colas to develop in a horizontal position in relation to the earths surface, is less effective in comparison to horizontal scrogs as more energy is being spent on structural support during the critical production cycle in a vertical scrog design.

If explanation is needed for how a vertically positioned cola is less stressed and at a greater advantage than the same cola at a horizontal position in relationship to gravitational pull, please do not hesitate to ask.

Consensus: Greater benefit is received from Horizontal vs Vertical Scrog.

Woodsman~
 
woodsmantoker

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
She'l Smoke:

Your plants seem a bit stressed *not in a good way per-say - Looks as simple as over water possibly but I am unable to get a good look from here and am not the doc. Plant Help threads might be a better option for gaining responses to plant health concerns.
I would ask however, how far that T-5 is from the canopy and how many lumen are you producing with it?

A great tool for the scrogger is an LIM or Light Intensity Meter. The LIM allows you to measure available light at various distances from the source. This then allows you to see where you are losing intensity and gives you the real ability to compensate and measure effectiveness of changes made.

Welcome to the craze!

Woodsman~
P.S. Thumbs up!
 
LBH

LBH

Well-Known Member
I see your point, something to ponder. How about if all the positioning is in place before flowering (lets be safe and say, "before the end of the stretch"). If all your nodes are through the screen and already aiming up, the bud would be growing naturally.
 
LBH

LBH

Well-Known Member
Wait a second, this produces another problem, your bud is only getting light from one side, similar to what some of the uter buds can experience in a horizontal.

Stadium though wood,.....not really a vert, just an arched horizontal. As long as the arch isn't way exaggerated, the buds are still horizontal. Kind of irrelevant, my pal with all the cool tubes switched them out for raptors (crazy imo) so I don't have one to borrow. I wouldn't bother with a standard hood
 
she'l smoke

she'l smoke

Member
woodsmantoker said:
She'l Smoke:

Your plants seem a bit stressed *not in a good way per-say - Looks as simple as over water possibly but I am unable to get a good look from here and am not the doc. Plant Help threads might be a better option for gaining responses to plant health concerns.
I would ask however, how far that T-5 is from the canopy and how many lumen are you producing with it?

The T-5 is pretty close its say 4inches, just enough to let air flow under it. The 432w 8tube produces 35600 lumens. i would go as far as to say i got more vigorous growth with my cfls so you can understand why this is disapoining. i have no pests or mold probs, humidity could b e higher if anything. Thanks woodsman im looking for another place to post bt havnt found the right thread yet
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robbye

robbye

Member
wow. That sounds like a pretty neat set-up. I'll have to do some more searching around. The reason I wanna try this is because I want to try and grow a sativa alongside an indica in a grow box. I think it'd be cool to have the sativa growing up and along the walls while the indica grows normally. Height might be an issue however because I can't find anything tall enough to make a decent box out of. I need to go the route of stealth and I'll likely end up building a pseudo-dresser style box. Thanks for the input LBH.

I was wondering about the colas in a vert screen compared with a horizontal, thanks for the info woodsman.

I'm not sure if I'm gonna try it yet but if I do I'll be sure to post a link and keep a thread for it! Now back to searching for my perfect box. lol

LBH said:
I have zero experience with vert screens but it is definitely do-able and they seem to pop up on the boards now and again, pretty interesting. There was one version I remember though that really struck me as "smart". It was the next level so to say where the grower wrapped the screen in a circle, about 5' in diameter and about 6' tall and had a cool tube hung vertically in the middle. The actual pots are located outside the circle. The cylinder screen was hinged in the rear so it opened in half and the 2? 3? plants growing in each half, moved with it. It's like 2 vert screens, arched to meet each other. Very ingenious and impressive but this cat obviously had a lot of trial, error and scrogging experience to get there. Just a thought, it looked like it was a yield monster for sure.

Specific training in veg will definitely be necessary. For example, my method would not work here unless you elevated the pots to the mid height of the screen, stretched the heck out of the seedling and aimed it sideways before (below) the first few nodes as I train to grow sideways as opposed to up. See, my issue at this location is height, something this method would require to be fruitful. If height is an issue at your place, I would recommend just using a standard screen.

I'd love to watch if you try and I'm sure everyone here would help with their input if you do decide to.

Back to trimming, happy and safe 4th to all you screenheads!
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woodsmantoker

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
LBH- "Stadium though wood,.....not really a vert"

As with Vertical, it is the objective that must be addressed. If the objective is to fit more plants into that given space, a curved line will accommodate more.

In baseball, what is the concept that makes a stadium superior to a flat area for onlookers. The obvious is that they gain a vantage point for viewing the game and less, the numbers of available positions of which have a vantage point increases however; There are still nose bleed seats, too close for comfort areas, and you get sun burnt on one side of you. Though less, the slight slope still creates some need for the plant to support the weight from a less than ideal position.

We can see that a plants structural design and function is in relationship to direction of light by noticing that the plants leaf will turn toward the light regardless of position. What we don't notice as easily however, is the evolutionarily designed stems and trunks of plants and trees that are specifically designed to support weight from a vertical position. Weight however, is a relative term considering that without gravity we weigh nothing. If you were to stand up, you would feel the weight of your head from a normal position and you can support that weight for an extended period of time and you could probably take an IQ test while standing. However, if you lean forward at an angle, you feel your upper body being pulled by gravity and it feels heavier. You are less likely to preform that test with the same results having done so while supporting that same weight from a slightly different position. The reason: You are designed to support your weight vertically. So too is the cannabis plant.


 
LBH

LBH

Well-Known Member
I'm talking about a slight bend to catch more of those lumens from the cool tube, support of the plant doesnt change. I see what you mean about leaning forward, great analogy but not every bud on a plant is perfectly vertical. Every bud other than the main (on a non topped plant) is growing at an angle, unless you change it physically, like we do with a scrog. Granted, it's not a complete change like in a true vert but it's not a direct up and down thing either.

Now if you top a plant, you are throwing even more weight out to the sides, off center.

I need to find a cool tube, I wanna play with this one because I totally see your point but I'm thinking theres a middle ground between flat and a slight bend but nothing drastic. Maybe a few inch difference in height from the center. Woodman, have you ever done one? I've found that a lot of my "thoughts" often make sense in theory and fall flat in application and vice versa, so I've kind of adopted a "you'll never know till you try" attitude.
 
woodsmantoker

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
LBH - I have not seen something online or in person that I have not attempted. I am retired from most of my own cultivation unfortunately as my greatest challenge is keeping healthy. I am healing this season in another medical state with better access but am directing my advocates in building a new facility. We will be trying a few "new" ideas involving high revolution rotating screens and I expect to see advanced results. Of course the community here will be updated appropriately.

The principle here is increased low stress during vegetative growth, with an emphasis on opportunity for available light to all parts flowering.
 
woodsmantoker

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
LBH - "I see what you mean about leaning forward, great analogy but not every bud on a plant is perfectly vertical."

That's right; Only the biggest, most well developed.
 
LBH

LBH

Well-Known Member
So essentially, if I keep the mains on the flatter section of the screen, it should grow about the same as a standard screen.
 
LBH

LBH

Well-Known Member
woodsmantoker said:
LBH - I have not seen something online or in person that I have not attempted.
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I don't know man, you haven't tried mine or we would have never butted heads back there. The 4way lst/scrog tutorials have been on icmag, grasscity, hydrocanna,thcFarmer (still there), weedfarmer, growkind and facebook You've never seen it? It went for over 400 pages on GC man, give a brother some love,lol I'll be honest with you, reading through some of your stuff, I would love to see what you did or could do with the techniques I employ, might take the method to a new level and it might make for some better pics for the tutorial.

Anyway, could I please see your results with the stadium attempt? I'd like to see the straight vertical also, as I'm debating which to do first although I think I'm swaying towards stadium but if I could see how your attempts went, it would give me something to shoot for.


woodsmantoker said:
LBH - ever consider why there are not threads with folks repeating stadium scrogs and the like?
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I'm thinking because only "x" amount of people ever get scrogging down and then "x" amount of them take it to that next level and then "x" amount of them are successful and then only "x" amount of them are online sharing their results

oooooooor

no one has built a tutorial to show them how to do it successfully.

photo drop

 
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