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woodsmantoker

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
Here we have a few video links of Vertical Screening for comparison and review.

After reviewing the previous links and learning about tropisms, I thought it would benefit the community to compare and discuss with a new and educated perspective, how gravity plays a role in the Scrog Method.

Note how the plants in the following gardens respond to both phototropism and gravitropism. Though a plants response to phototropism is much more rapid, gravitropism has a greater role in determining the structure of the plant and how that structure will effect the overall production. Though taking into consideration other controls, also note the leaf to calyx ratio that could also be determined by lack of light penetration thus less fully developed flower.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX1B3gUimWQ&feature=related

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Vertical+Scrog&view=detail&mid=095FEFAF6BE4233EBA7B095FEFAF6BE4233EBA7B&first=0&FORM=LKVR14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlsNTSW0NOU
 
Robert Paulson

Robert Paulson

Active Member
I would think a flat screen would be preferred based on the reading. It seems that some of the flowers in vertical grows would be getting mighty confused; they would have phototropic and gravitropic responses pulling them in opposite directions when they are above the light (which we can see in the videos and it seems like gravity won, pointing the top nug into the lightless sky). And of course there is the issue with the auxins as well. Obviously vertical ScrOG's produce the traditional single "top nug" rather than a horizontal ScrOG where every nug can become a top nug.
 
LBH

LBH

Well-Known Member
Robert Paulson said:
I would think a flat screen would be preferred based on the reading. It seems that some of the flowers in vertical grows would be getting mighty confused; they would have phototropic and gravitropic responses pulling them in opposite directions when they are above the light (which we can see in the videos and it seems like gravity won, pointing the top nug into the lightless sky). And of course there is the issue with the auxins as well. Obviously vertical ScrOG's produce the traditional single "top nug" rather than a horizontal ScrOG where every nug can become a top nug.
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I'm right with you here. Does it work? sure,...the plant is amazing at adaptation, but the real question here is,..is it optimal? Although it seems correct in theory, with the reading above (thanks wood), iwe now know how it happens and what is going on within the plant. Granted, I don't absorb a lot of the chemical science behind it but I see the energy involved and thats enough for me. Energy is everything, I want to dump it where it's going to do me the most.

So yea, although there are some great looking screens out there, showcasing the method (including yours ice!!) , the science clearly states that it's not optimal and for me, that's the overall goal of indoor cultivation, optimal growing. Thanks for saving me the time wood.
 
BustedParaphernalia

BustedParaphernalia

Well-Known Member
In response to all this gravitropism stuff, my only question... what would happen if a plant was growing in a zero-g environment? I'm sure someone in the space station must have tested this at some point
 
Beansly

Beansly

RIU Bulldog
Call me crazy, but doesn't cannabis grow vertically naturally? And doesn't vertiscrog have more to do with light placement than anything else? If you grow the plant naturally, except pull the branches forward into a screen, what you have is a plant gowing straight up like nature intended with some slight training. I think that v-scrog may possibly be even more efficient than horizontal. Because 1) Light that bounces of the reflector and back into the bulb or even on the plants is wasted or diminished as compared to a bare bulb hanging vertically and 2) V-ScrOG doesn't require you to bend the branches at such an extreme angle as in horizontal which as you know, redirects auxins and messes with the plants hormones.
This is all just educated guesses though. What do you all think?
 
LBH

LBH

Well-Known Member
Beansly said:
Call me crazy, but doesn't cannabis grow vertically naturally? And doesn't vertiscrog have more to do with light placement than anything else? If you grow the plant naturally, except pull the branches forward into a screen, what you have is a plant gowing straight up like nature intended with some slight training. I think that v-scrog may possibly be even more efficient than horizontal. Because 1) Light that bounces of the reflector and back into the bulb or even on the plants is wasted or diminished as compared to a bare bulb hanging vertically and 2) V-ScrOG doesn't require you to bend the branches at such an extreme angle as in horizontal which as you know, redirects auxins and messes with the plants hormones.


This is all just educated guesses though. What do you all think?
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Yea, I see your point. In the one vid, the buds are gactually growing ABOVE the light but with a bare buldb you would eliminate that.

Let's flip the script, what kind of growth would you expect if we grew them upside down so gravity is an ASSIST. With light and gravity not fighting each other, I wonder how it would grow.......water gets to the buds faster, harder, etc,...any thoughts?
 
PakaloloHui

PakaloloHui

Active Member
LBH said:
Yea, I see your point. In the one vid, the buds are gactually growing ABOVE the light but with a bare buldb you would eliminate that.

Let's flip the script, what kind of growth would you expect if we grew them upside down so gravity is an ASSIST. With light and gravity not fighting each other, I wonder how it would grow.......water gets to the buds faster, harder, etc,...any thoughts?
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Upside down topsy turvy. Grow tomatoes upside down. People have tried this.
 
LBH

LBH

Well-Known Member
PakaloloHui said:
Upside down topsy turvy. Grow tomatoes upside down. People have tried this.
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No, they only turned the plant upside down, I'm talking about turning the environment upside down. Light on the floor pointed up, plants growing down from ceiling,...WITH gravity, towards the light.
 
LBH

LBH

Well-Known Member
What kind of results did they get Pakalolo? I'm wondering if stretch was an issue too....
 
PakaloloHui

PakaloloHui

Active Member
If my memory serves me correctly I do not think stretching was as big as rightside up. The plants can be kept closer to the lights with the upside down method. With proper fans, circulation, and the fact hot air rises, this kept the stretch to a minimum.

The hardest thing was watering. A slow pour, absorbant cloth tied around the stalk to keep runoff off the buds when in bloom is important.

Makes for an easy inspection for pests on your leaves though!!!

Didn't hear about the results.
 
woodsmantoker

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
I am having a hard time believing you guys are having this conversation and was poised to even comment after all the research information... What you missed was that gravitropism is a response that has developed over the course of evolution. The plant is DESIGNED to be in a vertical position in relation to gravity.

Cannabis will NOT grow upside down with ANY good results~
 
LBH

LBH

Well-Known Member
woodsmantoker said:
I am having a hard time believing you guys are having this conversation and was poised to even comment after all the research information... What you missed was that gravitropism is a response that has developed over the course of evolution. The plant is DESIGNED to be in a vertical position in relation to gravity.
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No, I understand this Woodsman, I know it is a design that is the best design for the conditions it's had over the eons, and was just throwing around what would happen if you flip the script so to say. My (admitted scientifically ignorant) opinion would be that it would either super flourish or super nosedive.

Wood, have you ever tried to dig up the journals regarding the work Nasa has done with zero gravity growing? I can undesrtand if you haven't, there's really no need at the moment,lol, just wondering.

Hope all our patients are having a good day out there, ....Grow em up!!
 
woodsmantoker

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
There is great need for understanding gravitational force and relationship with plant growth. Thus NASA's experiments.

Here is your link: http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/122510/growing_plants_in_zero_gravity/

"The researchers expected random, unorganized growth, as seen with every other type of plant flown in space."We don't know why moss grew non-randomly in space, but we found distinct spiral patterns," Sack said."

What is not mentioned in the link, is the role each mass in space could play on the "spiral growth". In that all mass has a gravitational force according to law, it would be my theory that the shape the moss has taken was not fluke or uncontrolled, but dictated by the attractive force that all masses in space posses regardless of the environment being labeled as "zero gravity". I would also suspect that the plants grown in space with "random" growth patterns would likely be a result of the inability to respond to lesser forces from distant masses after having been developed on earth under the force that its mass possesses. I would also conclude that if moss is more likely to respond to lesser forces of gravity by the distance of that mass, it could be possible that mosses and the like were originally formed (evolution) in an environment with less gravitational force such as under water.

Typically plants grow away from earth as that is their function. Roots however, respond with positive tropism while plants grow with negative tropism. Reversing the environment works against the function of the plants response to the greatest force known, and has been proven to be non-beneficial in cultivation of many plants. Tomato is a vine and its orientation is less dictated by where its root mass is in relationship to the plant. The idea behind "topsy turvy" has little to do with gravity and more to do with convenience and "wow upside down". The roots are still growing with positive tropism and the plant with negative, and nothing changed about that.

Here is another good read that I suggest you folks take some time to familiarize yourself with. I suppose if you folks are still unaware of these factors, either you have neglected to read up, or I am lacking at teaching skills....Ill take the blame, if you folks stop asking questions that you are obviously unwilling to read the answers to LOL. If you don't understand the articles or the language used, that is understandable...I can help.

LINK: http://plantphys.info/plant_physiology/gravitropism.html
 
woodsmantoker

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
You wanna really shake things up? Harvest the force of gravity (the strongest force known on earth) by converting it into usable energy. Not impossible, but probable. Then show me how so I can grow for free. Thanks!
 
LBH

LBH

Well-Known Member
Ya know, I was going to do that this weekend but when I thought about it, I figured the gov't and their oil chronies would never let me market it so I'll probably just go fishing. :P
 
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