Elite Clone S1's, why do people hate on breeders for offering?

It seems that breeders only offer Elite S1's for a short time. They seem to get attacked for offering the Elite genetics in S1 form.

I'm wondering if it's a conspiracy or if you guys really don't like S1's?

I have to say, one of my favorite plants is the OG Raskals the white S1. I love the flavor, if yield were a bit higher it would be a rockstar.

I have to say if someone started a "Elite S1 seeds" company that I would be buying a bunch from them. Sounds like easy money for anyone with access to Elite clones. I don't understand why it's not being done extensively.

Cannaventure has a few of these: Pure Animal, Irene, Ghost OG and Raspberry Kush all S1. Those would be worth checking out if that's what you like.

I think most of Dr Greenthumbs strains are S1s. I haven't tried any though, his prices are a bit high.

TubeAndJar said:

Cannaventure has a few of these: Pure Animal, Irene, Ghost OG and Raspberry Kush all S1. Those would be worth checking out if that's what you like.

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Thanks, those did a good job hiding "pure" vs "S1".

Looking, mostly out of stock. In stock anywhere?

I think the 'fly by night' breeders offering S1's get lots of crap because the strains are generally released without being tested. All the solid breeders offering S1's usually test them out first.

OG Raskal has The White S1 SVOC might still have some left

I'm glad they do.

I think it's cause s1s carry a flea market knock off vibe that make both the seller and the buyer look thirsty. The buyer is looking for a close to (but not quite) representation of something they heard was hot rather than putting in work to find something good in regular packs, and the seller comes off like someone trying to cash in quickly on the hype and recognition of someone elses work.

Im not saying thats totally true or either party is bad in that scenario but if you aggregate most of what negativity there is concerning s1s it would be summed up that way.

BustinScales510 said:

I think it's cause s1s carry a flea market knock off vibe that make both the seller and the buyer look thirsty. The buyer is looking for a close to (but not quite) representation of something they heard was hot rather than putting in work to find something good in regular packs, and the seller comes off like someone trying to cash in quickly on the hype and recognition of someone elses work.

Im not saying thats totally true or either party is bad in that scenario but if you aggregate most of what negativity there is concerning s1s it would be summed up that way.

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If you have access to both the knockoff and the original, then sure that's a valid argument. But the copy/knockoff is still better than 99.9% of other seed form strains available. I would buy that knockoff, lol.

I've gone through about 300 seeds to this point. IMHO, the single seed I bought of the White S1 is the 2nd best of them all. I either got lucky or S1's of elite clones are kickass compared to even top quality seeds.

Because they will never be like the clone only so you are better off looking for elite elsewhere and when people on the street shoot off elite names with b grade bud they look like a fool. I don't hate that people sell S1's of clone onlys for an absurd amount of money I may inform you can find better for much less money and who knows maybe the next Sour Diesel. After all 100% of these clone onlys come from seeds and at least 90% not from the S1's.

Plus I would give away the pure clone onlys have so to a few friends and come spring I will be getting more just too cold to mail cuttings this time of year.

Might be a good market for the Dutch folk but we are getting ahold of west coast clone onlys in New England.

bluntmassa1 said:

Because they will never be like the clone only so you are better off looking for elite elsewhere and when people on the street shoot off elite names with b grade bud they look like a fool. I don't hate that people sell S1's of clone onlys for an absurd amount of money I may inform you can find better for much less money and who knows maybe the next Sour Diesel. After all 100% of these clone onlys come from seeds and at least 90% not from the S1's.

Plus I would give away the pure clone onlys have so to a few friends and come spring I will be getting more just too cold to mail cuttings this time of year.

Might be a good market for the Dutch folk but we are getting ahold of west coast clone onlys in New England.

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A lot of clones do come from S1, most actually come from S1 and F2. I haven't seen or tried The White from a clone, but from the description, my S1 plant actually appears to be better than the clone. The flavor of the clone is described as not being especially flavorful, it's also described as a low yielder, mine is medium yielding and quite flavorful.

The ease of making S1's should make them the cheapest seeds, I do agree the price on S1's is a bit high at $15-20 a seed.

I would love some clones, but it's hard to find someone I'm willing to trust who is also willing to send them. For all of us who do not have access to clones, I urge breeders to release more S1s.

I'm going to pickup the S1's from CannaVenture. If they are nearly as good as the White then I'm sold on S1's. I really want S1's to pick breeding partners for my normal keepers.

As far as selling under the same name, easy enough to call it Nomo's White, White S1 or whatever.

I'm currently pheno hunting c99 and Fire99 for keepers. Next up I have the Tangie pheno hunt, the StarBud pheno hunt, and a couple of production OG pheno hunts. I'm sick of pheno hunts with large groups of plant. I'm sick of having to figure out what to do with the crap plants and the mediocre plants. Unfortunately I'm also addicted to trying new stuff out. So I'm looking for a better way to get new stuff without going through so many junk plants.

I want to finish my hunting and start more work breeding, so at least the next hunting for a pheno will be hunting for my best creations.

The Fire99 strain from High Rise has so many pretty, frosty, potent plants that are just missing a bit of a boost to flavor. I want to breed it with the White S1, Tangie, FireOG, and a higher production OG, then hunt for the best pheno's and work them until I have made at least one new OG leaning strain and one new c99/Tangie/sativa/fruit leaning strain.

Everything that that hits that Fire OG clone seems to be fire.

nomofatum said:

Thanks, those did a good job hiding "pure" vs "S1".

Looking, mostly out of stock. In stock anywhere?

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thedankteam has 3/4 of them in stock atm.

TubeAndJar said:

thedankteam has 3/4 of them in stock atm.

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I was going to mention that after I bought some, lol. Waiting for the 15% off sale this weekend.

I kept searching after asking and eventually found thedankteam, aka NGR2.0.

I always get lucky with raskals seeds, too. Have you tried his other strains? I like regular seeds that are hybrids of the elites, but sometimes I will get a back cross, another alternative to selfing. S 1 strains are feminized and come with that reputation. Subcool doesn't self pollinate but chooses to back cross a few of his strains.

nomofatum said:

If you have access to both the knockoff and the original, then sure that's a valid argument. But the copy/knockoff is still better than 99.9% of other seed form strains available. I would buy that knockoff, lol.

I've gone through about 300 seeds to this point. IMHO, the single seed I bought of the White S1 is the 2nd best of them all. I either got lucky or S1's of elite clones are kickass compared to even top quality seeds.

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Better plants are found in S1's than the parent as well. It's not common, but it happens. Tom Hill replaced his Katsu Bubba with an S1 from it. Some pretty remarkable plants have been found in other S1's as well.


As far as breeders just not wanting to take the time to put these plants into regular seed form... well, that's 100% guaranteed way to NOT get a pure version of what you're looking for. S1's will produce near clones (not necessarily consistently, or even with any great frequency - it depends on the line) and the seeds have not been touched with other genetics. There is value in that, quite a lot of value IMO.

OGEvilgenius said:

and the seeds have not been touched with other genetics.

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Exactly!
Lets say you don't have access to elite clones in your area and you grow in a closet. Well, obviously you're not going to be doing a good pheno hunt on a couple packs of seeds to find that awesome representation of that strain. You can probably only grow 2-3 plants at a time and can't waste it all on bunk seeds. Here come S1s' to save the day (or 4 months)! Now, you're going to get a female AND it has a greater chance of giving you something close to what you want. Yeah, I would pay extra for that even if there was some kind of moral dilemma.

shorelineOG said:

I always get lucky with raskals seeds, too. Have you tried his other strains? I like regular seeds that are hybrids of the elites, but sometimes I will get a back cross, another alternative to selfing. S 1 strains are feminized and come with that reputation. Subcool doesn't self pollinate but chooses to back cross a few of his strains.

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Only other OG raskal I tried so far was the Fire BX, it's pretty damn good, but not a match for the clone from what I've tried. I ordered one pack (white S1) and a pick and mix of the rest of their stuff still in stock at choice. I'm curious what's up with OGR, doesnt' look like there has been a seed drop in a while.

Two more S1's:

Moxie Grape Kush S1
Sweet Seeds S.A.D S1