East Coast Gen simple, cheap, No-Till Theory

@EastCoastGenetix

@EastCoastGenetix

Well-Known Member
kratos015 said:
40% perlite in the mix is definitely the best IMO. Unless we have EWC that is of the highest quality, we need 40% perlite because not only will the peat "brick up" on you as you pointed out but this same thing will happen with most composts you see on the market.

I love the Peat from hardware stores, $17 for 3.7cuft that expands to ~7.5cuft. Can't beat it. But are you sure that's where you're getting spider mites from? Spider mites feed off of foliage, so I don't see how they could sustain themselves in peat moss unless there is foliage/plant matter involved. Do you sterilize your grow/equipment after every run?

Amend your soil with Neem/Karanja Meal, and top dress with it weekly. For whatever pests that doesn't kill off, the habanero spray has been tried and true for me. Can be used up to the last 48 hours of flower, will not hurt your plants at all. Only down side is you need to apply it 1-2 times a day.

Dr. Earth is good shit, can't say enough good things about their product. I've only switched to something else because my hardware store has 12lb bags of G&M for $17 and the price can't be beat.

As far as I can tell, you're literally doing everything right and it shows.

Just something to consider about the "excess" nitrogen. This is only an issue if you don't have enough Phosphorus in your soil mix/top dresses.

Think of your soil as a pantry, and your plant as a person. The pantry is full of nitrogen, phosphorus, etc. Just because your pantry is full of nitrogen doesn't mean you'll always eat nitrogen. The nitrogen will be bonded to the peat moss via the cation exchange capacity, and will only be used when the microbes see fit. Unless your plant's roots signal to the microbes it needs nitrogen, it won't get nitrogen unless it is made readily available and not bonded to the peat moss itself.

Hope you keep posting. There aren't enough threads like this on here anymore and I feel like this will be helpful for a lot of people.




One must top dress religiously. Composting all of the green material will bring a plethora of life/microbes into the no-till, but it will not provide sufficient nutrition to the plants. Top dressing with amendments is something we must stay on top of consistently throughout every grow in a no-till, and on a weekly basis. You tailor the top dress amendments depending on whether the plant is in veg or flower, but one most stay on top of the top dress or there will be no food in the soil to feed the microbes that populate it.





Add OSF to the mix and you'll see even greater results. Worms have gizzards, and as such need grit in order to actually process food. By blending the food up, you eliminate the need for the worms to require grit to actually eat the food. If you do all of what you said above, and then sprinkle Oyster Shell Flour on top of everything that you blend up you'll experience even greater results. Especially if you add Neem/Karanja Meal to the equation. Worms love that shit.
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I have been collecting egg shells from work for that reason. I'm trying to reduce my carbon footprint by composting almost all good waste. I even changed my diet so that my food scraps will be in line with what the worms will compost. No-Till has been helping me make better decisions for myself and the soil. I still top dress and will continue for a little bit longer. I'm heading towards Natural farming, I want to be able to feed my plants with only stuff I grow or can get from a grocery store.
With the spider mites I do think I get it from the peat. It stored outside when I buy it and it's the only regular new source in my garden besides fertilizer. I don't trade anymore and I spray either green cleaner or plant therapy weekly when veg and month in flower. The only new thing I use is peat when I transplant. I spray my mother's weekly and as I'm taking cutting. I also dunk them as their coming out of the EZ CLONER going into pots to veg. So I maybe wrong but I'm pretty sure that the source.
 
@EastCoastGenetix

@EastCoastGenetix

Well-Known Member
insomnia65 said:
I read what you said about lights but can you break down what you have in each tent.
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3x3 beds in 3x3 tents. Each bed is 67 gallons. (2) 6in clip on fans in each tent, 6in exhaust and filter, intake is passive (leave tent mesh flaps open at the bottom), 60/40 peat perlite, cover crop, and weekly sometimes bi-weekly watering.
 
@EastCoastGenetix

@EastCoastGenetix

Well-Known Member
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I'm running a batch of reg autos I made a few months ago. I'm going to make fems to run in the spring. I dabble with breeding and autos. TBH, I'm still in the learning curve with autos. So since there to expensive to keep messing up and started making my own to ease the pain on my pocket getting through the curve with them. So just a little something to look for if anyone likes autos.

But back to the regs., It's time for the watering lol or soak rather. It's just easier this way for me. If their on the SIP planter I only do this when i refill the reservoir (2-3 weeks). These babies are the perfect height to flip! I probably will drop these into the beds this weekend. I'll give them a few days to get settled in and flip Tuesday or Wednesday. IMG_20201114_120434.jpg
Here are some of the sad clones that's taking a little time to pick up steam but they'll get reset with a top dress and boom. Set it and forget it. The clones above are from the same mom's, taken on the same day, clones the same way. But I need new suction cup for my pump in the cloner. It tip and depending on position some rooted faster and stronger than others. It's the sample things that tend to set me back.
IMG_20201114_120513.jpg
 
N

Northwood

Well-Known Member
kratos015 said:
One must top dress religiously. Composting all of the green material will bring a plethora of life/microbes into the no-till, but it will not provide sufficient nutrition to the plants. Top dressing with amendments is something we must stay on top of consistently throughout every grow in a no-till, and on a weekly basis.
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Well I haven't provided "amendments" to my soil in the last 6 grow cycles so far.

I'm scared of gradually adding more nutrients than my plants can utilize each cycle, causing an eventual buildup and imbalance, with lockouts and toxicity happening in some future cycle. So all I do is depend on green/brown material since first creating the soil recipe for cycle #1. And most of that is just recycled biomass from my previous grow. I've found that sometimes less is more with this grow-style.
 
@EastCoastGenetix

@EastCoastGenetix

Well-Known Member
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So these clones are about the right size I like when planting dense. I have a total of 29 clones, 19 of which are Slurrucane IX(Dan kizzay cut), the other 10 is a combo of JMO and Hazmat OG (both ATG cut) and Sour D Wilson (Masonic cut).
 

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@EastCoastGenetix

@EastCoastGenetix

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So I was thinking about running a tent with 19 and a tent with 10 but I settled on 15 Slurricane IX in one and 14 in the other. Right now I have autos going in Tent #1 until the rest of the clones catches up. They'll be 3-4 weeks behind and probably stay that way. I want to dig into my vault and get something new going. Im waiting to see if the keepers from my last pheno will reveg so far I haven't been successful but it's life. I'll just have to take cuts earlier and plan for a place to hold them until I make my selection. So let's get them dug in!
 
kratos015

kratos015

Well-Known Member
Northwood said:
Well I haven't provided "amendments" to my soil in the last 6 grow cycles so far.

I'm scared of gradually adding more nutrients than my plants can utilize each cycle, causing an eventual buildup and imbalance, with lockouts and toxicity happening in some future cycle. So all I do is depend on green/brown material since first creating the soil recipe for cycle #1. And most of that is just recycled biomass from my previous grow. I've found that sometimes less is more with this grow-style.
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110%.

While the idea of nutrients causing buildup does make sense in theory, this actually isn't as frightnening of a prospect as one would think. Nutrients are either soluable, or insoluable; in other words they are capable of being bonded to the substrate (peat or coco) via the CEC or they will simply wash out of your soil in the form of run off. Most nutrients will bond to the peat/coco and also the minerals that are within your soil, the ones that do not bond to either of these inputs will be susceptible to runoff.

agfuse.com

Nutrient Stratification Not a Problem in No-Till

A common concern growers may have when they move to a no-till system is nutrient stratification.Without tillage to mix fertilizer into the soil, no-tillers may wonder whether the nutrients applied to
agfuse.com agfuse.com

Nutrient stratification in no-till is not a major concern - Top Crop Manager

While immobile nutrients can become concentrated near the soil surface, nutrient uptake is not affected.
www.topcropmanager.com www.topcropmanager.com

"While higher concentrations of P and K can be found near the soil surface under no-till compared to conventional tillage, research in both Saskatchewan and Alberta have found that there is no difference in nutrient uptake by the plants."


The only possible way you can get buildup is in the form of salt buildup. Otherwise build up is effectively impossible, as peat/coco/minerals can only hold so much nutrients. The only way we can suffer from salt build up is by using things like epsom salts, langbeinite, or if our water happens to have "salts" of some sort. Take Calcium Carbonate for instance, this is technically a salt.



I'd also like to take this opportunity to emphasize that I not only use lighter amendments, but I also do it in smaller more consistent doses as opposed to larger doses.

Only amendments I use in veg now are Neem and Kelp Meals, watering in and foliar feeding with epsom salts and TM7 as needed. In flower, I replace Neem with Karanja and I use a 4-6-4 blend from my local hardware store. Super light, will not cause burn, and the worst thing that will happen with me overdoing it is experiencing diminshing returns due to the fact that the soil can only "hold" so much. Anything excess will wash out because it has nothing to bond with, and since most organic inputs don't tend to be soluable salts they will easily wash out.
 
N

Northwood

Well-Known Member
kratos015 said:
I'd also like to take this opportunity to emphasize that I not only use lighter amendments, but I also do it in smaller more consistent doses as opposed to larger doses.
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So then, technically what's the difference between lighter amendments (without any available nutrients) and just throwing available organic material in your pot?

Obviously not all these "amendments" aren't equal, but I guess research papers like this gave me second thought about using commercially available amendments: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11356-018-3928-4

And it's an overabundant buildup of phosphorus I'm most concerned about: https://www.gardenmyths.com/compost-is-it-poisoning-your-garden/

Yes I know that you're using plant-based amendments, however the same issue can easily still occur with excesses. A phosphorus issue might not happen in the first few cycles if even if you're adding way too much, but chances are that adding more phosphorus than your plants can consume in a single cycle will cause a slow buildup in your soil causing an issue down the road.

I guess I'd rather not have to "guess" how much my plants need, and forgo even the chance of having future headaches. Being a dummy, I need something dummy-proof :P
 
@EastCoastGenetix

@EastCoastGenetix

Well-Known Member
Tent #3 has 14 mixed strains. 2 rows of 3 and 2 rows of 4.

Clones were taken from neglected mom's, and also taken very short(2"-3" tall). They had a 4 week Veg (3 wks on the SIP planter, and one off the planter). They were planted in the No-Till Beds on (11/15/20). They will have 3 full days to get settled in. So I will flip Wednesday(11/18/20).

Strains:
1x Unlabeled Seed plant
1x Sour D Wilson (Masonic cut)
3x JMO(A.T.G cut)
4x Slurricane IX (Dan Kizzay cut)
5x Hazmat OG (A.T.G cut)
IMG_20201115_144141.jpgIMG_20201115_144150.jpgIMG_20201115_144231.jpg
 

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@EastCoastGenetix

@EastCoastGenetix

Well-Known Member
Tent #2 has 15 clones. This tent has only one strain. There in 5 rows of 3.

Clones were taken from neglected a mom, and also taken very short(2"-3" tall). They had a 4 week Veg (3 wks on the SIP planter, and one off the planter). They were planted in the No-Till Beds on (11/15/20). They will have 3 full days to get settled in. So I will flip Wednesday(11/18/20).

Strain:
15x Slurricane IX (Dan Kizzay cut)

IMG_20201115_144326.jpgIMG_20201115_144335.jpgIMG_20201115_144344.jpg
 
@EastCoastGenetix

@EastCoastGenetix

Well-Known Member
On (11/14/20) before planting in the beds I did add the red wigglers and released the predator mites. I did also dust the beds with some flower girl before I wet down the beds. Wednesday I will start with the bio-stimulants and Bloom microbes weekly until 1 weeks after the stretch stops.
 
kratos015

kratos015

Well-Known Member
Northwood said:
So then, technically what's the difference between lighter amendments (without any available nutrients) and just throwing available organic material in your pot?

Obviously not all these "amendments" aren't equal, but I guess research papers like this gave me second thought about using commercially available amendments: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11356-018-3928-4

And it's an overabundant buildup of phosphorus I'm most concerned about: https://www.gardenmyths.com/compost-is-it-poisoning-your-garden/

Yes I know that you're using plant-based amendments, however the same issue can easily still occur with excesses. A phosphorus issue might not happen in the first few cycles if even if you're adding way too much, but chances are that adding more phosphorus than your plants can consume in a single cycle will cause a slow buildup in your soil causing an issue down the road.

I guess I'd rather not have to "guess" how much my plants need, and forgo even the chance of having future headaches. Being a dummy, I need something dummy-proof :P
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Oh definitely. People way overestimate how much P their plants need. Couldn't believe it when I saw a 0-50-0 powder, there's no way that isn't fucking up people's plants.

Fortunately, since switching to Coot's recipe I've never experienced issues with adding too much of anything. I ran 25g pots indoors a little over 4 years ago, they didn't get retired (dumped and recycled) until the beginning of this year. Wife and I used them for veggies for about 3 years before we had to dump them. And to think there was a time when I started with new soil after each harvest -_-

You're totally right about being fearful with phosphorus, my fault for not elaborating further on my particular situation and why I top dress the way I do. Indoors, with plants <20g pots I top dress with my 4-6-4 blends once every two weeks @ 1tbsp per 5g of soil right as pistils begin to form. Everything else is weekly. My outdoor plants are a different story. In flower I'll find myself top dressing weekly. Of course there's a huge difference between indoor and outdoor plants, so please forgive me for not emphasizing that..

In my humble opinion, anyone that says they're an "expert" with living soil/microbes/etc is delusional and has effectively limited themselves. We know about as much about microbes in living soil as we do the ocean, next to nothing at all.

I've always tried to take the approach that I know absolutely nothing, keeping the potential for learning infinite.

I agree with you, I too love living soil because I'm also a dummy. Literally every and anything I grow now is successful because I'm not in charge, the soil/microbes are. I just facilitate it's needs and nothing more.
 
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