Dont listen to this bullshit.. because thats exactly what it is.

doc111 · Apr 12, 2011

Who gives a fuck? Seedbanks and breeders are kinda like beer; everybody has their favorite brand and it's very difficult to convince someone that the Busch Light they are drinking isn't necessarily the best beer in the world. It may be the best for THEM for a number of reasons. Maybe they like the taste. Maybe it's the price that they like. Maybe the consistency of the product. Seriously! Why the fuck anybody would spend so much time trying to convince others that a particular breeder is "shit" is beyond me. We get it! You don't like Nirvana! Great! I know plenty of people who aren't fans of theirs. I also know people who aren't big fans of Shantibaba or Neville or Subcool. Doesn't mean any of them are crappy breeders. People develop brand loyalties, usually because they have a positive experience with a given product. I'm sure Nirvana isn't total garbage or they probably wouldn't be in business too long. I have personally never tried any of their gear and may never get to since I have about a million breeders and strains I'd like to try before I could possibly get around to purchasing their gear, which is why you won't see me bashing their genetics. They may be the "Wal-Mart" of genetics but as much as I despise Wal-Mart they do have very competitive pricing and a huge selection, and the quality of most of the products they carry isn't too bad. I bought a microwave at Wally World about 15 years ago and that fucker is still going strong. It still heats my food but it doesn't have all the bells and whistles a model at, say Sears, might have. Not everyone can afford Sub-Zero but most can afford Sharp. You get where I'm going with this? :joint:

Brick Top · Apr 12, 2011

doc111 said:
Who gives a fuck? Seedbanks and breeders are kinda like beer; everybody has their favorite brand and it's very difficult to convince someone that the Busch Light they are drinking isn't necessarily the best beer in the world.

That's sort of like saying that Hyundai and Mercedes are both car manufacturers and the only true difference between them is what people like and that quality does not enter into things at all and that there is no difference in quality between the two.

If someone likes some companies genetics then that is what they should grow. I have said that many times. But just because they like some low grade genetics breeder's gear does not mean they should tell people that it's the top of the pops. Someone should not misrepresent things just because they like them and use them. Tell it like it is, that they are mostly F2s and low grade knock offs that are dirt cheap, which is where a great deal of their appeal is found, and that they good enough for some people and just leave it at that.

It isn't right to mislead those who might not know the truth about breeders and genetics by attempting to make some White Castle 'slider' quality genetics sound like it is Kobe beef just because someone likes and only eats White Castle 'sliders.'

There is not only a difference in breeders and genetics, there is a very big difference in breeders and genetics. People should be told that.

Sure some people do not like Shantibaba and Neville's gear. No line is perfect for everyone. In their cases most cmoplaints I have ever read about them is they will not make the gimmick feminized beans or gimmick auto-flowering strains, and some people will just not deal with regular beans.

Other times it is the general makeup of a breeder's line. Sannie is quality but his line does not offer someone like myself a single strain of the type I like. I won't say he's a low grade breeder or his strains suck because of it. I just say he doesn't offer me anything that I like so I won't use him, but I have recommended some of his strains to people who were looking for quality and some atrain like he does provide.

When it come to Sub, well that's a horse of a totally different color.

Illumination · Apr 12, 2011

Brick Top said:
That's sort of like saying that Hyundai and Mercedes are both car manufacturers and the only true difference between them is what people like and that quality does not enter into things at all and that there is no difference in quality between the two.

If someone likes some companies genetics then that is what they should grow. I have said that many times. But just because they like some low grade genetics breeder's gear does not mean they should tell people that it's the top of the pops. Someone should not misrepresent things just because they like them and use them. Tell it like it is, that they are mostly F2s and low grade knock offs that are dirt cheap, which is where a great deal of their appeal is found, and that they good enough for some people and just leave it at that.

It isn't right to mislead those who might not know the truth about breeders and genetics by attempting to make some White Castle 'slider' quality genetics sound like it is Kobe beef just because someone likes and only eats White Castle 'sliders.'

There is not only a difference in breeders and genetics, there is a very big difference in breeders and genetics. People should be told that.

Sure some people do not like Shantibaba and Neville's gear. No line is perfect for everyone. In their cases most cmoplaints I have ever read about them is they will not make the gimmick feminized beans or gimmick auto-flowering strains, and some people will just not deal with regular beans.

Other times it is the general makeup of a breeder's line. Sannie is quality but his line does not offer someone like myself a single strain of the type I like. I won't say he's a low grade breeder or his strains suck because of it. I just say he doesn't offer me anything that I like so I won't use him, but I have recommended some of his strains to people who were looking for quality and some atrain like he does provide.

When it come to Sub, well that's a horse of a totally different color.

Now we getting somewhere...c'mon BT I am on the edge of my seat here....please do tell of this different colored horse... I have my suspicions and would like to see if they are accurate

Thanx

Namaste' :leaf:

doc111 · Apr 12, 2011

Brick Top said:
That's sort of like saying that Hyundai and Mercedes are both car manufacturers and the only true difference between them is what people like and that quality does not enter into things at all and that there is no difference in quality between the two.

If someone likes some companies genetics then that is what they should grow. I have said that many times. But just because they like some low grade genetics breeder's gear does not mean they should tell people that it's the top of the pops. Someone should not misrepresent things just because they like them and use them. Tell it like it is, that they are mostly F2s and low grade knock offs that are dirt cheap, which is where a great deal of their appeal is found, and that they good enough for some people and just leave it at that.

It isn't right to mislead those who might not know the truth about breeders and genetics by attempting to make some White Castle 'slider' quality genetics sound like it is Kobe beef just because someone likes and only eats White Castle 'sliders.'

There is not only a difference in breeders and genetics, there is a very big difference in breeders and genetics. People should be told that.

Sure some people do not like Shantibaba and Neville's gear. No line is perfect for everyone. In their cases most cmoplaints I have ever read about them is they will not make the gimmick feminized beans or gimmick auto-flowering strains, and some people will just not deal with regular beans.

Other times it is the general makeup of a breeder's line. Sannie is quality but his line does not offer someone like myself a single strain of the type I like. I won't say he's a low grade breeder or his strains suck because of it. I just say he doesn't offer me anything that I like so I won't use him, but I have recommended some of his strains to people who were looking for quality and some atrain like he does provide.

When it come to Sub, well that's a horse of a totally different color.

I'm just saying this argument is getting fucking old. Quality aside, someone may prefer a Hyundai to a Mercedes for a variety of reasons. Cost being the most obvious. Many people are perfectly happy with their Hyundais. Why bash them? I'm sure that people are aware that there are differences in genetics. I'm also aware of your feelings on subcool, however I am growing one of his strains right now and it is one of the dankest I've ever grown. I may not have 80 years of experience like you :roll:

, but I've been around the block a couple of times and I know the difference between shit and good genetics. I think the horse has been dead for a while now Brick. Why don't you just leave it be? We get what you're saying but you've taken it a bit far don't ya think? The part of your last post which I've highlighted kind of says it all IMO. We all have our own frame of reference and to some, Nirvana's genetics may be the "top of the pops" to them. I realize you are on some crusade to try and "warn" all the noobs about what YOU feel are crap genetics. Mission accomplished. :clap:

Brick Top · Apr 12, 2011

doc111 said:
I'm just saying this argument is getting fucking old. I think the horse has been dead for a while now Brick. Why don't you just leave it be it be? I realize you are on some crusade to try and "warn" all the noobs about what YOU feel are crap genetics. Mission accomplished.

Is it really; "mission accomplished" as long as others are bragging up the low grade genetics?

Should I now be expecting to see a message from you to those saying Nirvana's Wal-Mart-grade genetics are great to drop the subject too since they have gone on and on about it long enough? Or is it totally cool and the gang too you for them to keep misleading people who do not know the truth but who very well might appreciate a chance to learn the truth?

Brick Top · Apr 12, 2011

doc111 said:
doc111 said:

I may not have 80 years of experience like you

Click to expand...

Thank you for the BIG LAUGH! I just love it when someone is so lacking in ammunition that they are reduced to attempt to make fun of my age or multiple decades of experience by greatly over exaggerating them in hopes that it will somehow discredit what I say.

Just to keep the record straight, I am now into my 39th year of growing, not my 80th. I believe it would be impossible to pack 80 years of growing into 56 years of life. Wouldn't you?

The part of your last post which I've highlighted kind of says it all IMO.

Click to expand...

This line?

No line is perfect for everyone

Click to expand...

That was a statement about the selection of strains offered by breeders and only about the selection of strains offered by breeders and not in any way a comment about quality or a lack thereof.

doc111 · Apr 12, 2011

Brick Top said:
Is it really; "mission accomplished" as long as others are bragging up the low grade genetics?

Should I now be expecting to see a message from you to those saying Nirvana's Wal-Mart-grade genetics are great to drop the subject too since they have gone on and on about it long enough? Or is it totally cool and the gang too you for them to keep misleading people who do not know the truth but who very well might appreciate a chance to learn the truth?

Had you read my entire last 2 posts you'd have seen that I am neither defending nor bashing Nirvana or their genetics. I stated that I would do no such thing since I have never TRIED their genetics and probably would never try them. Thanks for trying to ASSume that you know what I will say next.

Brick Top said:
Thank you for the BIG LAUGH! I just love it when someone is so lacking in ammunition that they are reduced to attempt to make fun of my age or multiple decades of experience by greatly over exaggerating them in hopes that it will somehow discredit what I say. I just work with what you give me.

Just to keep the record straight, I am now into my 39th year of growing, not my 80th. I believe it would be impossible to pack 80 years of growing into 56 years of life. Wouldn't you? Yes Brick, we all know how long you've been growing.

This line? Yep, that's the one.

That was a statement about the selection of strains offered by breeders and only about the selection of strains offered by breeders and not in any way a comment about quality or a lack thereof. And my reply was talking about both selection and quality.

That is called hyperbole Brick. I was exaggerating your experience since you make it a point in nearly every thread you post in to mention how many years you've been at this. Quality is largely subjective. Sure there are things like stability, uniformity, potency, height, and flowering times which are all objective, but taste, the quality of the high, most of the important shit is subjective. Keep up the good work though! :clap:

sniffer · Apr 12, 2011

i wish i new about Nirvana before i spent over 150.00 with them ,
what a waste of my money and time

fabfun · Apr 13, 2011

Do tell why i mean your post offers no knowledge
unless u explain why u say that
and btw i never bought seeds except in bags of weed
but if one of u guys argueing about who is better why don't :-P

u guys order seeds for me from different companies and just to shut u up i will do i documented grow

sniffer said:
i wish i new about Nirvana before i spent over 150.00 with them ,
what a waste of my money and time

sniffer · Apr 13, 2011

not much to tell ,
grew out 4 of there strains and found nothing worth keeping

im sure i could of bought more packs and finaly found something ,
only 5 seeds per pack of each strain

imo all of these breeders/seed companys should give us more seeds per pack for the money

Feminiseed · Apr 13, 2011

growone said:
excellent post feminized, this has been my experience with Nirvana also
but this is some good corroboration of BT's comments of Nirvana, at least Nirvana of some years ago
i can understand hard feelings on events like those, though i doubt there was much real danger involved
just some idiot working in the seed business

Cheers Growone, I thought it was interesting myself that Alice would admit it. There's nothing she can do about it now but come clean. At least now we know it's never going to happen again.

Brick Top · Apr 13, 2011

Originally Posted by Brick Top
Is it really; "mission accomplished" as long as others are bragging up the low grade genetics?

Should I now be expecting to see a message from you to those saying Nirvana's Wal-Mart-grade genetics are great to drop the subject too since they have gone on and on about it long enough? Or is it totally cool and the gang too you for them to keep misleading people who do not know the truth but who very well might appreciate a chance to learn the truth?

doc111 said:
Had you read my entire last 2 posts you'd have seen that I am neither defending nor bashing Nirvana or their genetics. I stated that I would do no such thing since I have never TRIED their genetics and probably would never try them.

Where in what I said can you find me saying that you were either; "defending or bashing Nirvana or their genetics?" Was there a reason to attempt to make a point in response to something I did not say? Do you always rely on reading between the lines or putting words in someone else's mouth?

Thanks for trying to ASSume that you know what I will say next.

If that was in response to my ASKING if you would be saying something similar to those who keep saying Nirvana, Nirvana, Nirvana, Nirvana, well then I did not assume anything. I only asked you a question of would you be replying to them in the same manner as you did me, or not, or if you were cool and the gang with their continuing to preach daily sermons for Nirvana and only I should have restricted freedom of speech on the subject?

If there was any ASSuming taking place it was on your part. First, when you attempted to make a point by responding to something I did not say and second, when it appears you wrongly ASSumed that a pair of questions was an assumption. and your third ASSumption was when you wrongly ASSumed that I did not read your previous two messages fully.

doc111 · Apr 13, 2011

Brick Top said:
Where in what I said can you find me saying that you were either; "defending or bashing Nirvana or their genetics?" Was there a reason to attempt to make a point in response to something I did not say? Do you always rely on reading between the lines or putting words in someone else's mouth?

If that was in response to my ASKING if you would be saying something similar to those who keep saying Nirvana, Nirvana, Nirvana, Nirvana, well then I did not assume anything. I only asked you a question of would you be replying to them in the same manner as you did me, or not, or if you were cool and the gang with their continuing to preach daily sermons for Nirvana and only I should have restricted freedom of speech on the subject?

If there was any ASSuming taking place it was on your part. First, when you attempted to make a point by responding to something I did not say and second, when it appears you wrongly ASSumed that a pair of questions was an assumption. and your third ASSumption was when you wrongly ASSumed that I did not read your previous two messages fully.

You have completely lost it! lmfao!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can try to twist my words around all you want Brick. I can read and I can write VERY well, thank you. I will say it again since you aren't getting it. I am not defending nor am I bashing Nirvana or their genetics. I have never tried them so I will do no such thing. I was simply pointing out your hypocrisy and making a little fun of your holier than thou attitude. I would like to talk about lobster though. I've been fishing for over 40 years and in all my years of catching and eating seafood I hear an awful lot of complaints about lobster. A lot of my friends don't like it at all! I have personally never tried it but due to all the complaints I've read about it you would be better off with some crab legs or scallops. Lobster are nasty creatures and are closely related to cockroaches! Yuck! Stay away from lobster! It's bad, bad, bad! :fire:

Brick Top · Apr 13, 2011

doc111 said:
You have completely lost it! lmfao!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can try to twist my words around all you want Brick. I can read and I can write VERY well, thank you. I will say it again since you aren't getting it. I am not defending nor am I bashing Nirvana or their genetics. I have never tried them so I will do no such thing.

Possibly you can read and write well, but that did not stop you from twisting my words around. So would you prefer to be the pot or the kettle? I normally prefer being the pot because I just like the word better, but in this case I will have no problem with you picking which you would rather be.

I was simply pointing out your hypocrasy and making a little fun of your holier than thou attitude.

So, you write well? Maybe you just don't spell well since you spelled hypocrisy; "hypocrasy." But where is my; "hypocrasy" found? Possibly in another of your ASSumptions?

I would like to talk about lobster though. I've been fishing for over 40 years and in all my years of catching and eating seafood I hear an awful lot of complaints about lobster. A lot of my friends don't like it at all! I have personally never tried it but due to all the complaints I've read about it you would be better off with some crab legs or scallops. Lobster are nasty creatures and are closely related to cockroaches! Yuck! Stay away from lobster! It's bad, bad, bad!

Where is the relevancy between breeder skills, the genetics a breeder has in their breeding stables and lobsters? I am no lobster expert but I believe there are varieties in the oceans and that there may be some difference in how they taste. Regardless, they all grow wild and are creatures of evolution or creation, not creatures that were created by men, or women, crossing different varieties in hope of creating a better lobster and some of those men, or women, having more wild varieties to work with to make crosses or having a better understanding of the art and being more skilled at what they do.

doc111 · Apr 13, 2011

Brick Top said:
Possibly you can read and write well, but that did not stop you from twisting my words around. So would you prefer to be the pot or the kettle? I normally prefer being the pot because I just like the word better, but in this case I will have no problem with you picking which you would rather be.

So, you write well? Maybe you just don't spell well since you spelled hypocrisy; "hypocrasy." But where is my; "hypocrasy" found? Possibly in another of your ASSumptions?

Where is the relevancy between breeder skills, the genetics a breeder has in their breeding stables and lobsters? I am no lobster expert but I believe there are varieties in the oceans and that there may be some difference in how they taste. Regardless, they all grow wild and are creatures of evolution or creation, not creatures that were created by men, or women, crossing different varieties in hope of creating a better lobster and some of those men, or women, having more wild varieties to work with to make crosses or having a better understanding of the art and being more skilled at what they do.

You have the nerve to talk shit to me about making fun of your age, yet you are going to be the spelling police???? Bwahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was a typo Brick! You know, when you're typing real fast and you accidentally hit the wrong key, but I'll let you in on a little secret......I spell ok but I don't use spellcheck because I think it makes me lazy. I edited it for you since it seems to bother you so much. :roll:

You already used your little "pot/kettle" schtick in this thread already. Lame. Your hypocrisy (please note, I spelled it correctly :hump:

) has been pointed out by me and several others in this thread and numerous other threads as well. My "lobster" example was to prove a point. I thought you were smarter than that Brick. :-?

We can use whatever example you like though. How about dogs? Maybe horses? These are very similar examples since they are both creatures that have been bred in very similar manner to cannabis. I suppose now you'll try to strawman me or tell me my example wasn't a good one since they are mammals and not plants. Remove lobster and insert whatever example you'd like. I think I've made my point. Unlike you, I will not continue to beat a dead horse. You keep up the good work spreading the gospel according to Brick Top. Have a nice day! :weed:

Serapis · Apr 13, 2011

Which strains?

sniffer said:
not much to tell ,
grew out 4 of there strains and found nothing worth keeping

im sure i could of bought more packs and finaly found something ,
only 5 seeds per pack of each strain

imo all of these breeders/seed companys should give us more seeds per pack for the money

Serapis · Apr 13, 2011

BT pissed off another member? No way :roll:

Brick Top · Apr 13, 2011

doc111 said:
Your hypocrisy (please note, I spelled it correctly) has been pointed out by me and several others in this thread and numerous other threads as well.

And what red herring argument was it, that just because I have never spent my own money on Nirvana's crap genetics or personally grown them that I know absolutely nothing about them even though I do have friends who have grown a number of Nirvana strains and that I have personally smoked them? Is it the attempt to claim that since I did not spend my money and do the growing myself that when smoking them there is no way in the world that I could possibly ever judge the quality of what I smoked?

Or was it how I pointed out things like how I have never seen any breeder's gear be criticized as much over the many years I have spent on sites like this as Nirvana's, and then posted a list of complaints? Or was it something else that I said Nirvana has done over the years, like threaten to rat people out, and then someone else emailed Nirvana and asked if it ever happened and was told, yes, it did happen. Were my facts hypocrisies because some here would prefer to now know the truth about Nirvana?

My "lobster" example was to prove a point.

What point were you attempting to make, that you are terrible at picking something to use for an example that would at least in some small way be somewhat similar to breeding cannabis?

How about dogs? Maybe horses? These are very similar examples since they are both creatures that have been bred in very similar manner to cannabis. I suppose now you'll try to strawman me or tell me my example wasn't a good one since they are mammals and not plants.

No, dogs or horses would have worked better, had you thought to use one or the other rather than using lobsters. I would have preferred horses though since I almost ended up in the Arabian horse business.

I think I've made my point.

Your lobster thing fell far short, but mentioning things that are actually bred did make things more clear as to what you were attempting to say, even though you failed to give any actual examples that would in any way clarify your position or claims.

Unlike you, I will not continue to beat a dead horse.

Maybe you won't continue to beat a dead horse but you sure have attempted to beat me until I died. Will you be no longer be doing that too, or is asking you that question going to be spun by you into allegedly being an ASSumption?

You keep up the good work spreading the gospel according to Brick Top.

If that means that I should continue to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about Nirvana, well when the time is right I will continue to do precisely that. Thank you for being so supportive of my important and valued, by all but the propagandized, endeavor.

Serapis · Apr 13, 2011

This is REALLY getting old....

Brick Top · Apr 13, 2011

Serapis said:
BT pissed off another member? No way

So often thin skinned but hardheaded people really cannot handle the truth and they become upset when it is told to them. It is a sad fact of life.

Oddly though while it was going on the number of likes I received from the very messages that upset someone went up and more people sent friend's requests .... so maybe I upset one by being honest, but I made many more happy by doing so.

Dont listen to this bullshit.. because thats exactly what it is.

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