Do You Believe In Ghosts?

bobbypyn

bobbypyn

Well-Known Member
I don't make the rules. and actually it's quite INconvenient to me at times such as these. You are sadly mistaken if you think I wouldn't LOVE to shut you fools up with some concrete evidence, but alas it is not to be. Only those who seek will find. and for the record, I have voluntarily subjected myself to two different psych evals since all this stuff started in my life. I passed both with flying colors and with a 186 and 172 on the intelligence quotient tests. My daughter is in her first year of her doctoral program for psychology and we spend lots of time together; i would know if i was insane.
 
guy incognito

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
So it's like invisible boy from mystery men. He can turn himself invisible, but only when no one is looking. As soon as someone looks they see him.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
bobbypyn said:
Heisy... you're kinda missing the point here; they do not want to provide us with proof of their existence, for it would negate the element of faith that is so crucial to facilitating contact with the other side, so the Million Dollar Prize will never be claimed. Metascience Foundation produced the closest thing to proof we will ever get and all they received was derision and mockery. I feel their frustration.... there are rules of engagement that prevent the "proof" you seek from manifesting. all i can do is offer to meet you in person and then i can show you, for it is all situation specific. I would offer to introduce you to some "dead" people, but your lack of faith prevents this. Pity... I'd like to see you try to explain my experiences with "cold reading" claims.
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This is known as special pleading, another common invalid debate tactic. You are saying that the subject of ghosts and ghostly communication should be exempt from the standards of evidence we apply to everything else. The only justification you give for this exemption is, ghosts want it that way. There is no plausibility or even a suggestion of a working mechanism that prevents non-believers from having the experience, yet you seem certain. Your argument boils down to, only those who believe are capable of believing. A situation which excludes doubt, and promotes ignorance. Since when does finding the truth require accepting ignorance?

I did not explain your situation with cold reading. What I did was offer pareidolia as an alternative and more reasonable explanation. Something you didn't even comment on. Have you even asked yourself, could this be pareidolia? Have you completely ruled out hoax? Wouldn't you want to explore all possibilities to be confident your conclusions are correct? If not,then you must admit some sort of bias or laziness. You must admit a willingness to believe without being convinced, which is no way to reach the truth.

Some of us choose to approach reality with a systematic way of carefully and thoroughly observing nature while using consistent logic to evaluate the results. Explain where the fault lies in that and motivates you to call us fools. Is it being systematic, being careful and thorough when observing, or using consistent logic? In any case, you are saying we are foolish to not accept faith as a reason to jump in conclusion from unexplained to explained by ghosts. If you want to site faith as your position, then you have to withdraw yourself from the argument, because you simply aren't capable of defending or even explaining your claims. The best you can say is, I believe this but I don't know why, and that isn't really any help to anyone at all. At best, it simply leaves your opinion without merit.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
bobbypyn said:
Heisy... you're kinda missing the point here; they do not want to provide us with proof of their existence, for it would negate the element of faith that is so crucial to facilitating contact with the other side, so the Million Dollar Prize will never be claimed. Metascience Foundation produced the closest thing to proof we will ever get and all they received was derision and mockery. I feel their frustration.... there are rules of engagement that prevent the "proof" you seek from manifesting. all i can do is offer to meet you in person and then i can show you, for it is all situation specific. I would offer to introduce you to some "dead" people, but your lack of faith prevents this. Pity... I'd like to see you try to explain my experiences with "cold reading" claims.
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It also occurs to me that you just figured out a legitimate way to win the million dollar prize yourself!! You say you can convince people one on one, unless of course they don't have faith, in which case it never works. You sit in a room and we separately send in (x) number of people. Some will be believers, some skeptics. If you can identify the skeptics with an accuracy greater than random chance, you win the prize.
 
GoldenGanja13

GoldenGanja13

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
So essentially what we have here is a genuine psychic who helps people. Hanging out in a chat giving free readings, and professing how much he/she enjoys helping out these desperate individuals and doing it for the most righteous reasons. This person is helping for the sake of helping and not angling to make a buck.

At the same time this person finds it too 'boring' to help provide insight and evidence into this psychic world, an action that would end up helping millions if it panned out. It seems even though providing proof would be keeping in step with the reported goal of helping people, it's still avoided. This person claims to be able to do something that will change everything we know about the Universe, something that could help more people than any other discovery we have made, and they want to keep it to themselves? That seems to be extraordinarily selfish, and in the context of someone who claims to want to help, hypocritical.
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What we have here is a lack of communications~
I AM A GENUINE PSYCHIC/MEDIUM, Correct. Hanging out and helping Desperate people? Who said that? No sir, I work more like this~ A spirit will come to me and say, "that is my wife and I would like to talk to her". So I I.M. the person in room and tell them there is a lady next to them and she says she is your wife, I describe the lady and the husband gets excited knowing that I described his wife and it's the real deal. You see when you hunt out desperate people, well you are in for a long chat and forever being sought out being you can communicate with there loved one. But done in a more natural way, works best for all. That shows the Medium is genuine being they brought 2 people together with out being asked or any information.
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The information and proof is spreader by TOP Psychics and Mediums (Sylvia Brown, just one) and still yet there are many dis believers, so why would I make a change in millions of minds?

At the end of your life journey, you will know more than you ever had, so just keep your mind closed for now, it seems to work for you.

I help many many people, in many ways. Keeping them from taking a left when they need to stay right to be safe,etc.

Selfish, far from. But it sure is easy to call one selfish, isn't it. bongsmilie

~Namaste
 
bobbypyn

bobbypyn

Well-Known Member
nothing exceeds the smugness of ignorance. ahhhh... to be mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence.
 
bobbypyn

bobbypyn

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
This is known as special pleading, another common invalid debate tactic. You are saying that the subject of ghosts and ghostly communication should be exempt from the standards of evidence we apply to everything else........ End quote.

ok then what does a spirit weigh? you're trying to apply the materialistic limitations of this dimension to what lies beyond. ever heard of John A. Wheeler? all that the mind can conceive, exists.
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guy incognito

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
Still special pleading. The spirit world lies beyond our worldly dimension and therefor cannot be measured by anything existing in this dimension. Except of course for your mind...
 
bobbypyn

bobbypyn

Well-Known Member
guy incognito said:
Still special pleading. The spirit world lies beyond our worldly dimension and therefor cannot be measured by anything existing in this dimension. Except of course for your mind...
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take it up with Wheeler; it's his theory, he just so happens to be correct.

and I call shenanigans on your claims of "special pleading" on the following grounds: ya'll are hypothetically presenting me with a mathematical problem that euclidian thought is incapable of expressing, so when I try to quantify the unknown variables in your equation, you scream "SPECIAL PLEADING!!!" ummm.... no. just more advanced mathematics than you know of; algebraic thought trying to be constrained within the frame of simple addition and subtraction.

counterpoint?
 
guy incognito

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
bobbypyn said:
take it up with Wheeler; it's his theory, he just so happens to be correct.

and I call shenanigans on your claims of "special pleading" on the following grounds: ya'll are hypothetically presenting me with a mathematical problem that euclidian thought is incapable of expressing, so when I try to quantify the unknown variables in your equation, you scream "SPECIAL PLEADING!!!" ummm.... no. just more advanced mathematics than you know of; algebraic thought trying to be constrained within the frame of simple addition and subtraction.

counterpoint?
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Now I just gotta call you out on being a liar.

You claimed:

bobbypyn said:
Heisy... you're kinda missing the point here; they do not want to provide us with proof of their existence, for it would negate the element of faith that is so crucial to facilitating contact with the other side, so the Million Dollar Prize will never be claimed. Metascience Foundation produced the closest thing to proof we will ever get and all they received was derision and mockery. I feel their frustration.... there are rules of engagement that prevent the "proof" you seek from manifesting. all i can do is offer to meet you in person and then i can show you, for it is all situation specific. I would offer to introduce you to some "dead" people, but your lack of faith prevents this. Pity... I'd like to see you try to explain my experiences with "cold reading" claims.
Click to expand...
You are not trying to quantify unknown variables as you claim. You are saying they are completely unmeasurable by any means, by definition. Any attempt to measure or quantify anything results in negation of the very thing you are trying to observe.
 
bobbypyn

bobbypyn

Well-Known Member
You're over-simplifying and exagerating what i say. do watch that... what i said was that the element of faith must be preserved. this is cold hard fact that you so dearly cling to, so when i present it as such, you cry foul. how would you care to quantify human experience? have they got the neural interface shit set up yet?
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
bobbypyn said:
ok then what does a spirit weigh? you're trying to apply the materialistic limitations of this dimension to what lies beyond. ever heard of John A. Wheeler? all that the mind can conceive, exists.
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Well at least you are trying to provide justification for your special pleading, instead of simply 'ghosts don't like it'. Can science learn about non materialistic things? Is gravity materialistic? How much have we learned about that? Is there anything to suggest that 'what lies beyond' is not subject to rules of this dimension, or is that another assumption? This characteristic you sight as justification for inconsistent reasoning, immateriality, is present in many things science understands well.

bobbypyn said:
take it up with Wheeler; it's his theory, he just so happens to be correct.

and I call shenanigans on your claims of "special pleading" on the following grounds: ya'll are hypothetically presenting me with a mathematical problem that euclidian thought is incapable of expressing, so when I try to quantify the unknown variables in your equation, you scream "SPECIAL PLEADING!!!" ummm.... no. just more advanced mathematics than you know of; algebraic thought trying to be constrained within the frame of simple addition and subtraction.

counterpoint?
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We are not presenting you with any sort of problem. You are presenting us with a claim. We are simply subjecting this claim to the same systematic process of doubt to which we subject every claim. You then decided to present a reason why your claim should be excused from this method. Without doubt we ask no questions, and without questions we get no answers, only ignorance. True claims tend to hold up to even the most rigorous efforts of doubt. False claims tend to eventually fall into predictable pitfalls, such as special pleading.
 
bobbypyn

bobbypyn

Well-Known Member
why am I doing this!?!? ya know what? I'm starting to hope you remain steadfast in your beliefs that consciousness ceases to exist at the moment the physical body expires (which is a clear violation of the fact that energy can be neither created nor destroyed, but I digress...) for whatever you perceive to be the truth is what you experience in the afterlife, so in actuality what your belief system will dictate is that you simply turn off like a light bulb for all eternity; you still exist, but you think you don't, so you don't. It's all very subjective. have fun, homey.
 
bobbypyn

bobbypyn

Well-Known Member
Heisy... my private offer still stands. if you choose not to accept it, that is more than ok, but I would ask that you refrain from further derision if you should choose not to accept my offer. I sympathize with your predicament in that I know how hard some things are to unlearn, but it is what it is. there is a world beyond our ability to conceive just on the other side of this tattered veil.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
GoldenGanja13 said:
What we have here is a lack of communications~
I AM A GENUINE PSYCHIC/MEDIUM, Correct. Hanging out and helping Desperate people? Who said that? No sir, I work more like this~ A spirit will come to me and say, "that is my wife and I would like to talk to her". So I I.M. the person in room and tell them there is a lady next to them and she says she is your wife, I describe the lady and the husband gets excited knowing that I described his wife and it's the real deal. You see when you hunt out desperate people, well you are in for a long chat and forever being sought out being you can communicate with there loved one. But done in a more natural way, works best for all. That shows the Medium is genuine being they brought 2 people together with out being asked or any information.
.
The information and proof is spreader by TOP Psychics and Mediums (Sylvia Brown, just one) and still yet there are many dis believers, so why would I make a change in millions of minds?

At the end of your life journey, you will know more than you ever had, so just keep your mind closed for now, it seems to work for you.

I help many many people, in many ways. Keeping them from taking a left when they need to stay right to be safe,etc.

Selfish, far from. But it sure is easy to call one selfish, isn't it. bongsmilie

~Namaste
Click to expand...
Sylvia has herself dodged taking the test many times; I think it was around the time she told Shawn Hornbeck's parents he was dead, and then again around the time Shawn Hornbeck was found alive. I think the real question should be, why haven't you yourself wondered these things about Sylvia? You seem to be dismissing the challenge with "ah, who would believe me anyway" yet you explained how easy it would be to demonstrate. The reason no one has payed attention to Sylvia or any psychic for that matter is, they all take the same position as you... non-interest in demonstrating the ability scientifically, despite the sheer ease of the task. I see you also like to use ad hominem attacks like Sylvia, pretending the desire for proof and having consistent standards for proof is a result of a closed mind.
 
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