Do any LED fixtures produce an HPS-like color?
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Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
Who's going to pay us to do it? You?
You're not very good at defining things, so I'm guessing you don't actually know which HPS spectrum we should be trying to copy, right? There are quite a few of them out there . . . so which one is the Holy Grail?
You see the problem with this argument? You can't define a standard LED spectrum. You can't define a standard HPS spectrum. And you sure as hell can't define what makes HPS buds better than LED buds!
Because if you could, you would. But you haven't.
grotbags
Well-Known Member
on which page of the 6 (or 5) are you reading that? i cant see anyone saying current led spectrums are all they should want?.
you make it sound like the op asked a question and everyone rounded on him and tried to shut him down?, no one did anything of the sort.
hps does grow great cannabis. leds do have better output. and they certainly grow slightly differently under hps v's normal leds (some cultivars more than others).
until you nail down what you mean by style/quality of cannabis its hard to comment but to me its clear you are infering that led bud is not as good as hps bud. i know you say later that you didnt state it was better or worse just different but its obvious what you meant, afterall whey would "they" be ditching led and going back to hps? to get a worse product?.
while you could generally match B:G:R:FR ratios or kelvin you will not match the spd with leds available today.
no one has said that in this thread.
i agree with you that a lot of the current off the shelf led spectrums are not the best for flowering cannabis, and i can see why some people would prefer the results from under hps over some of the led spectrums offered.
maybe "they" should have educated themselves before fitting out entire operations with poor lighting, its like filling your flowering facility with only metal halide lights then crying about the results.
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
<<< confused... Wondering why the suns spectrum wouldnt be the goal.
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
Because sunlight is dynamic. It changes from hour-to-hour, season-to-season, latitude-to-latitude, altitude-to-altitude, and weather event to weather event.
So first you need to define which "sunlight" spectrum is best and why.
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
There's kinda this well known respected cat in the Humboldt / Cali Cannabis Scene named Kevin Jodrey, in a discussion on lighting technologies where he discussed even being a test facility for major LED companies - at the end of the day the Led weed looked like The second coming of Christ but doesn't hit the mouth the same as HPS Flower.
I would link the clip but the video is currently down on the youtube channel where the interview was hosted.
This coming from someone who is very involved in cannabis from all aspects - Cup judge, commercial Cultivator, old school educator with a hand in many Humboldt County cannabis businesses and currently the Gajier
HippieDudeRon
Well-Known Member
Dude, you really can't accept that some people like HPS buds better. and you can't read a single thing you try and complain about. Its been quoyted twice now to you and you still cry as if it hasn't been...read it dude....
The size, the smells(terps), the structure, the growth rates, the color expressions. Many prefer HPS for all those. That is their opinion...you don't get a say in their opinion.
It's not one person, so there is not one definition.
You Are sacred to attempt so are trying to deflect with needing down to the nm precision or its a worthless idea.
And who asked you to do it...no one. They asked for an HPS like spectrum form an LED. You don't have it...so move along.
grotbags
Well-Known Member
dude! i can totally accept some people like hps buds better, good luck to them!.
dude!! what does that even mean?.
dude!!! people are free to prefer what they want i dont want a say in their opinion, if they like bluple weed best have it, why would that bother me?.
but i can certainly have say "on" their opinion and they aint shit you can do about it.
dude!!!! i actually have a flower light made from 2000k nichia white diodes with added 660nm and 730nm, what have you done? bought an off the shelf 5000k cheap led and cried about the results, hahahahahahaha.
dude!!!!! they asked why they werent more hps like spectrums or if there was any that they had missed, i answered both questions honestly and without bias.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
For the same reason that field soil is not necessarily the ideal medium. Because we can sometimes improve upon the natural habitat.
Or 1500 ppm co2 rather than fresh air.
HippieDudeRon
Well-Known Member
SO many many assumptions and biased bullshit in your tone. Hilarious you have to make things up about me and what I use to deflect from the lack of confronting the issue of LEDs short comings against LED. You are so far off I can't believe you think this shit.
Looks real bad on you, and bad on the dude who can't accept people liking HPS bud better. Stick to the facts...so far you have presented ZERO.
Grow Lights Australia
Well-Known Member
I found an interesting article from another lighting manufacturer Valoya which partly addresses the HPS vs LED argument. It refers to a scientific study in 2017. I know there are questions around the study but it is one of the few resources we have.
www.valoya.com
There was another company that was producing LED lights they claimed were based on the HPS spectrum but I can't find a reference to them now. I will keep looking as I'm sure I saw it somewhere. It would not be too hard to make a HPS like spectrum and a basic solution might be to start with a 2700K CRI70 diode if you can find one. The lower CRI diodes have phosphors that push more light into the yellow and green compared to higher CRI phosphors and it would need to be at least a 2700K diode to reduce the amount of blue which HPS does not have a lot of. I'm not sure what you would do about the infrared spikes as we have never really looked into 800nm LEDs. As far as I know IR increases leaf temperatures so maybe you don't need IR diodes and can just warm the room up until both plants have the same leaf temperatures. I think that's what @Prawn Connery was saying. IR is just heat. It seems to me that's the biggest difference between HPS and LED.
HPS vs. LED for Cannabis Cultivation
Cannabis cultivators find themselves in a dilemma called HPS (high pressure sodium) lighting versus LED (light emitting diode) lighting. On the one hand, HPS has been around in agriculture for …
www.valoya.com
There was another company that was producing LED lights they claimed were based on the HPS spectrum but I can't find a reference to them now. I will keep looking as I'm sure I saw it somewhere. It would not be too hard to make a HPS like spectrum and a basic solution might be to start with a 2700K CRI70 diode if you can find one. The lower CRI diodes have phosphors that push more light into the yellow and green compared to higher CRI phosphors and it would need to be at least a 2700K diode to reduce the amount of blue which HPS does not have a lot of. I'm not sure what you would do about the infrared spikes as we have never really looked into 800nm LEDs. As far as I know IR increases leaf temperatures so maybe you don't need IR diodes and can just warm the room up until both plants have the same leaf temperatures. I think that's what @Prawn Connery was saying. IR is just heat. It seems to me that's the biggest difference between HPS and LED.
Grow Lights Australia
Well-Known Member
Maybe it was Migro I was thinking of. Their LED spectrum is close but LEDs are almost always going to have more blue than HPS because white phosphor LEDs use a blue pump at 450nm to generate light that is absorbed by the phosphor and converted to green and red light. If there was some way to remove the blue from this Migro I think it would be pretty close. I could be wrong but the Migro looks like it uses CRI70 3000K diodes. The HPS is a single end bulb and there are other HPS spectra out there so I'm not sure which one you would use to compare. Maybe you could compare a HPS with more blue in it but I'm not sure what the OP means by a HPS like color unless he is referring to traditional single end HPS bulbs in the 2100-2200K range. We have seen trade offs between red and blue light in LED so I'm sure the low amount of blue light in the HPS is one of the reasons they yield so well.
coreywebster
Well-Known Member
Is there evidence to show a larger population want HPS buds over buds grown under any other form of light?
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
Sorry, never heard of him. I'm still trying to work out what "hit the mouth" means. Does it mean it's not as tasty? Not as potent? It makes him cough? What, exactly, does it mean?There's kinda this well known respected cat in the Humboldt / Cali Cannabis Scene named Kevin Jodrey, in a discussion on lighting technologies where he discussed even being a test facility for major LED companies - at the end of the day the Led weed looked like The second coming of Christ but doesn't hit the mouth the same as HPS Flower.
I would link the clip but the video is currently down on the youtube channel where the interview was hosted.
This coming from someone who is very involved in cannabis from all aspects - Cup judge, commercial Cultivator, old school educator with a hand in many Humboldt County cannabis businesses and currently the Gajier
I wouldn't have a problem with anyone who preferred HPS bud over LED bud, but so far in this thread not one single person has been able to explain why.
Regardless of who these people are (thanks for at least naming someone – unlike @HippieDudeRon who keeps referring to the HPS Illuminati, whoever the fuck they are), there are lots of old-skool growers out there like myself who have made the switch to LED after decades of growing under HPS. Some of the tastiest and most potent weed I've smoked in 40 years has been grow under LED. I liked it so much, I started designing lights.
I won't hold it against anyone who points out the fact that I design and build LED fixtures means I have a vested interest – yes I do – but that still doesn't explain all the people who have made the switch and haven't gone back. Some of the growers I know have been growing the same clones for 10-15 years or more, so the differences they are seeing are not strain related.
I've been involved with this grow since I designed and helped build the room and supplied the clones and other expertise eight years ago. The strain in this photo from about five years ago is the same as the one in the following photos. Almost nothing has changed in this room except the lights, and this room has gone through two different types of LED fixture that I've designed and built (original High Light spectrum and the High Light 420 Gen2).
In fact, I've just realised that on the left-hand side of this photo are a couple of HLG Quantum Board fixtures using QB304 panels with Nichia diodes that I assembled for the grower to trial LEDs. So that's actually three different types of LED we've used in this room and we've never gone back.
After the Quantum Boards, in went the original High Light UV boards – my first design.
Same strain under my next design – High Light 420 with more UV and Far Red.
Same strain under yet another type of LED – I guess that makes it four different LEDs. Sometimes I lose count! But all designed and built by me.
The point is, we've been growing the same strains under lots of different lights over more than 10 years – so you think we would know what we like best. Besides that, none of the people who buy this weed have ever complained about it since the switch to LED. On the contrary, many have complimented the grower on his improved product over the years. And yet it's the same strain grown under the same conditions with the same nutrients – go figure!
Does that make me better than Kevin Jodrey – whoever he is? No. But I can guarantee that, like your bro Kevin, I have been growing weed before many people on this board were even born. I even travelled throughout Southeast Asia in the late 80s/early 90s, so I know what landrace Thai, Lao, Cambodian, Vietnamese, Indian, Sri Lankan and Philippine weed is. Plus I've smoked hash from the early days of Lebanese Blonde, Nepalese, Indian, Pakistani and Afghani even before indicas became common in the west (up till then, most of the grass everyone smoked was sativa).
I'm sorry if this has turned into a pissing contest, but at least I can quantify my position as having been derived from actual experience.
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
BTW, you know that vertical bare bulb growing you've been doing? I was doing that 20 years ago. I helped pioneer the technique. Google it – people have been copying my vertical HPS techniques for years. I know HPS intimately.There's kinda this well known respected cat in the Humboldt / Cali Cannabis Scene named Kevin Jodrey, in a discussion on lighting technologies where he discussed even being a test facility for major LED companies - at the end of the day the Led weed looked like The second coming of Christ but doesn't hit the mouth the same as HPS Flower.
I would link the clip but the video is currently down on the youtube channel where the interview was hosted.
This coming from someone who is very involved in cannabis from all aspects - Cup judge, commercial Cultivator, old school educator with a hand in many Humboldt County cannabis businesses and currently the Gajier
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grotbags
Well-Known Member
ok...time out, lets reset. do you honestly want to have good faith conversation on the bennefits and downsides of hps vs led spectrum?.
if you do please explain a bit more about the differences you see/taste/feel in the size, the smells(terps), the structure, the growth rates, the color expressions that you think makes hps bud grown better?.
and do you have any thoughts on what exactly in the spectrums is causing these expression changes, what is present in the hps spectrum that you think is benificial that is missing from leds?, or is it something in the leds spectrum that is not present in hps that you feel is detrimental?.
Drop That Sound
Well-Known Member
What does it really matter anyway?
In 20 years or so, the corporations will probably be growing gmo cannabis in underground stadiums, with mini artificial nuclear powered suns that outperform the actual sun.
I been saying that for years now, lol. Here's the latest news too: https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/worlds-biggest-artificial-sun-marks-new-breakthrough-as-china-completes-work-on-key-component-3556950
Meanwhile, we debate over what light is better, when the weeds really don't care all that much, and will grow under many different spectrum variations. All while they build nuclear suns, and also tell us the sun is destroying the planet at the same time.
Anyway, the smart meters will be so advanced in the future, that they'll know each and every different device plugged in, and linked to your carbon credit footprint scores. You'll pay big time to use kw hours, even for leds.
In 20 years or so, the corporations will probably be growing gmo cannabis in underground stadiums, with mini artificial nuclear powered suns that outperform the actual sun.
I been saying that for years now, lol. Here's the latest news too: https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/worlds-biggest-artificial-sun-marks-new-breakthrough-as-china-completes-work-on-key-component-3556950
Meanwhile, we debate over what light is better, when the weeds really don't care all that much, and will grow under many different spectrum variations. All while they build nuclear suns, and also tell us the sun is destroying the planet at the same time.
Anyway, the smart meters will be so advanced in the future, that they'll know each and every different device plugged in, and linked to your carbon credit footprint scores. You'll pay big time to use kw hours, even for leds.