cxb3070 3000k AD 800w draw 4x4 tent

Bueno Time

Bueno Time

Well-Known Member
Nice very efficient build. Ive been wanting to try the 730nm trick too for a while now but keep putting it off.
 
salmonetin

salmonetin

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
Wow very high intensity setup, nice work @Zheol ,much more light than a 1000W DE HPS in this canopy

@ttystikk

At full blast 1.4A
CXB3070 3K AD @ 1.4A = 49.8W @ 48% efficient = 23.9 PAR W
23.9 X 16 COBs = 382.5 PAR W
382.5 -10% losses to lens/reflector/scatter = 344.25 PAR W
344.25/16 ft² = 21.5 PAR W/ft²
21.5 X 4.66 umol/s/PAR W X 10.7 = 1072 PPFD.

Dimmed to .7A
CXB3070 3K AD @ .7A = 23.6W @ 55.4% efficient = 13.07 PAR W
13.07 X 16 COBs = 209.2 PAR W
209.2 -10% losses to lens/reflector/scatter = 188.3 PAR W
188.3/16 ft² = 11.77 PAR W/ft²
11.77 X 4.66 umol/s/PAR W X 10.7 = 587 PPFD.
Click to expand...
...pardon SupraSPL... need your help or other....i miss something... 10.7????... sqft corrected to m2?...

...thanks in advance...

saludos
 
Last edited:
salmonetin

salmonetin

Well-Known Member
...Thanks Supra... ...one question more...

Grow Area: 4’ x 4’ = 16 sq-ft = 1,49 M2
Grow Area: 4’ x 4’ = 16 sq-ft = 1,48644864 M2

Grow Area: 3’ x 3’ = 9 sq-ft = 0,84 M2
Grow Area: 3’ x 3’ = 9 sq-ft = 0,83612736 M2

Grow Area: 2’ x 2’ = 4 sq-ft = 0,37 M2
Grow Area: 2’ x 2’ = 4 sq-ft = 0,37161216 M2

At full blast 1,4 A
CXB3070 3K AD @ 1,4 A = 49.8 W @ 48 % Efficient = 23,9 PAR W
23,9 PAR W * 16 COBs = 382,5 PAR W
382,5 PAR W -10 % losses to lens / reflector / scatter = 344,25 PAR W
344,25 PAR W / 16 ft² = 21,5 PAR W / ft²
21,5 PAR W * 4,66 uMol / S * 10,7 = 1072 µMol M2 S (PPFD).

...my way in blue... ...its this correct ???...

344,25 PAR W / 1,49 M2 = 231,04 PAR W / M² ...............................??????

231,04 PAR W / M² * 4.66 uMol / S = 1076,65 µMol / M2 S (PPFD) .........??????

...other way from PPF to PPFD...

...from Gavita... (Lumens are for Human)...

Calculations made with 10 % reflector / wall losses:

a) - Philips GreenPower 400 W 230 V - PPF 725 µMol / S
400 W a) – 1 m x 1 m - 1 M2 at a PPFD of ~ 650 µMol / M2 S

b) - Philips GreenPower 600 W 230 V - PPF 1100 µMol / S
600 W b) - 1,2 m x 1,2 m - 1,44 M2 at a PPFD of ~ 690 µMol / M2 S

c) - Philips GreenPower 1000 W 400 V Electronic - PPF 2000 µMol
1000 W c) - 1,5 m x 1,5 m - 2,25 M2 at a PPFD of ~ 800 µMol / M2 S
.............................................................

...from Indagro...(Measuring Light: The important differences between PPF and PPFD)...
...I edited a bit...add more grow areas... ...usuals tent Americans... usual tent Europeans...

This is an Example of How you would Use the PPF to Get an Expected PPFD Value;

Lamp PPF Output : 1,100 µMol / S
Grow Losses off Canopy : 20 % ...then 80 % (,8) Efficiency Used
Light Actually Used : 1,100 x ,8 = 880 µMol / S

Grow Area : 4’ x 4’ = 16 sq-ft = 1,49 M2
Sample Average PPFD Formula: 880 µMol / S ÷ 1,49 M2 = 590,60 µMol / M2 S
Grow Area : 4’ x 4’ = 16 sq-ft = 1,48644864 M2
Sample Average PPFD Formula: 880 µMol / S÷ 1,486 M2 = 592,19 µMol / M2 S

Grow Area : 3’ x 3’ = 9 sq-ft = 0,84 M2
Sample Average PPFD Formula: 880 µMol / S ÷ 0,84 M2 = 1047,62 µMol / M2 S
Grow Area : 3’ x 3’ = 9 sq-ft = 0,83612736 M2
Sample Average PPFD Formula: 880 µMol / S ÷ 0,836 M2 = 1052,63 µMol / M2 S

Grow Area : 2’ x 2’ = 4 sq-ft = 0,37 M2
Sample Average PPFD Formula: 880 µMol / S ÷ 0,37 M2 = 2378,38 µMol / M2 S
Grow Area : 2’ x 2’ = 4 sq-ft = 0,37161216 M2
Sample Average PPFD Formula: 880 µMol / S ÷ 0,371 M2 = 2371,97 µMol / M2 S

Grow Area : 1,5 M x 1,5 M = 2,25 M2
Sample Average PPFD Formula: 880 µMol / S ÷ 2,25 M2 = 391,11 µMol / M2 S

Grow Area : 1,2 M x 1,2 M = 1,44 M2
Sample Average PPFD Formula: 880 µMol / S ÷ 1,44 M2 = 611,11 µMol / M2 S

Grow Area : 1 M x 1M = 1 M2
Sample Average PPFD Formula: 880 µMol / S ÷ 1 M2 = 880 µMol / M2 S

pd... ....upsss... ...for W PAR take the Watts Dissipated (Vf * If @ XXºC = Watts Dissipated @ XXºC) by the leds and multiply it by their Efficiency, and you will get PAR Watts.

...A good rule of thumb is to use 12 W / sqft PAR for 2 - 3 foot plants, 14 – 18 W / sqft PAR for taller.

So if you have a 400 W Dissipation lamp that is 50 % efficient, it will be 200 W of PAR.

400 (Vf * If = Watts Dissipated) * 0.5 Efficiency = 200 PAR Watts

Another 400 W Dissipation lamp that's 35 % Efficient would be 140 W of PAR

400 (Vf * If = Watts Dissipated) * 0.35 Efficiency = 140 PAR Watts


Saludos
 
Last edited:
salmonetin

salmonetin

Well-Known Member
....other answer in the wind... :wall:

...yesterday problems with interntet... ...i cant totally edit my last post...

....my last pd... was from ChurchHaze... thabs church...

...sorry Zehol and cia for hijack the thread a bit with my offtopic dudes...

...Wilson... time to infusion...back to the cavern... ...i use candles...

Saludos
 
tenthirty

tenthirty

Well-Known Member
Zheol said:
thanks for the suggestion 10:30 but im not going that direction I do plan to add 730nm once I figure out or find a timer that kicks on at lights off then I will run 730nm for 10-15min after lights out
Click to expand...
The typhoon has 4 timers in it. What I do is vary the start time on the 12/12 and the end time is 8:00am I set up the second timer it start at 7:58 am and stop at 8:10 am. I run the 12/12 to 13:45/10:15.

Hope that helps.
 
NapalmD

NapalmD

Well-Known Member
Zheol said:
ok sorry haha its 16 cree cxb3070 3000k AD bin's from KingBrite he is awesome btw he was out of holders so he refunded me $40 so I could get them from here in the states Ideal holders 4x 42" of 5.886" Heat sink from heatsinkUSA and 4 MeanWell hlg-185h-c1400b a 50k ohm pot and 2 5.6k ohm resistors for my limiter
Click to expand...
This is the exact setup I was dreaming up for a 4x4. This is gonna rock! Looking forward to the results!
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
salmonetin said:
...my way in blue... ...its this correct ???...

344,25 PAR W / 1,49 M2 = 231,04 PAR W / M² ...............................??????
231,04 PAR W / M² * 4.66 uMol / S = 1076,65 µMol / M2 S (PPFD) .........??????
Click to expand...
Yes you have this correct and this is CXB 3000K. To bring it to 1.56m² and match the examples below, we get 1028 PPFD from 400-700nm.


salmonetin said:
...other way from PPF to PPFD...
...from Gavita... (Lumens are for Human)...
Calculations made with 10 % reflector / wall losses:
Click to expand...
The HIDs are another story. They get a 20% reflector penalty plus another 10% if they use a glass cover and another ~5-10% wall/scatter loss after leaving the reflector. Other things to keep in mind, the PPFD will be less evenly spread and with a 20-40 CRi HPS, a poorer spectral distribution so the PPFD will be less effective. In order to improve spread they have to use a less efficient reflector, which is not good because of the heavy dependence on the reflector.


Philips GreenPower 1000 W 400 V Electronic
1000W * .408 efficiency = 408 PAR W
408 * .8 = 326 * .95 = 310 PAR W reaching canopy
310 * 4.63 umol/s/PAR W = 1436 umol/s reaching canopy (this is from 400-700nm)

in a 1.25m X 1.25m (1.56m²) area:
1436/1.56m² = 921 PPFD

in a 1.5mX1.5m area (2.25m²)
1436/2.25m² = 638 PPFD



Another way to look at it
Philips GreenPower 1000 W 400 V Electronic
380nm to 730nm range:
4.98 umol/s/radiometric W
2.07umol/s/dissipation W
2.07/4.98 = .415 efficiency

PAR range, 400-700nm
4.63 umol/s/PAR W
1.89umol/S/dissipation W
1.89/4.63 = .408 efficiency

1000 dissipation W * .408 efficiency = 408 PAR W
So 408 * 4.63 = 1889 umol/s emitted from bulb, 400-700nm
1889 * .8 = 1511 * .95 = 1435 umol/s reaching canopy

in a 1.25m X 1.25m (1.56m²) area:
1435/1.56m² = 920 PPFD (brand new bulb and reflector)

in a 1.5mX1.5m area (2.25m²)
1435/2.25m² = 638 PPFD

So in summary, the 1028 PPFD of the CXB setup will strongly outperform the 920 PPFD of the 1000W DE mostly because of the spread and to some extent because of the spectral distribution. As the HID reflector and bulb surfaces pick up dust/film and as the bulb ages, the HID output will decline significantly. On top of that the HID will emit 825nm infrared, raising canopy temp for better or worse.... The COB surface and lens will also pick up dust/film but can easily be cleaned.
 
Last edited:
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
The main advantage to bare bulb vertical growing indoors in regards to lighting is that reflector and glazing losses no longer apply. This would certainly raise these numbers somewhat.

Also, even though HPS does not put off a great spectrum, it does produce plenty of heat which still has to be taken into account. How?
 
VTMi'kmaq

VTMi'kmaq

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
NICE! Since I'm new to your setup, can you describe it in more detail? I'm also seriously contemplating the use of high efficiency COBs and drivers for a high wattage application.
Click to expand...
Can i get a link or some info about this cob set-ups? im an 600 hps kooltube slut but i enjoy watching tech progress and im intrigued.
 
VTMi'kmaq

VTMi'kmaq

Well-Known Member
Zheol said:
im running 120v but the drivers can take up to 305v input so 240v should be fine
Click to expand...
I have a question for ya? I have similar dimension tent myself.............what would you consider to be the shutoff max wattage wise for these size tents? I was gonna try to get away with 1500-1800, using hps and mh side by side, then use my other tent with this cob tech and grow out some classic seeds strawberry cough through them.
 
salmonetin

salmonetin

Well-Known Member
...thanks a lot supra...:hug:. ...i have some questions about your spreadsheets... but i ask to you in the spreadsheets thread...

...and thanks Zheol and cia...

saludos
 
Last edited:
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
Wow very high intensity setup, nice work @Zheol ,much more light than a 1000W DE HPS in this canopy

@ttystikk

At full blast 1.4A
CXB3070 3K AD @ 1.4A = 49.8W @ 48% efficient = 23.9 PAR W
23.9 X 16 COBs = 382.5 PAR W
382.5 -10% losses to lens/reflector/scatter = 344.25 PAR W
344.25/16 ft² = 21.5 PAR W/ft²
21.5 X 4.66 umol/s/PAR W X 10.7 = 1072 PPFD.

Dimmed to .7A
CXB3070 3K AD @ .7A = 23.6W @ 55.4% efficient = 13.07 PAR W
13.07 X 16 COBs = 209.2 PAR W
209.2 -10% losses to lens/reflector/scatter = 188.3 PAR W
188.3/16 ft² = 11.77 PAR W/ft²
11.77 X 4.66 umol/s/PAR W X 10.7 = 587 PPFD.
Click to expand...
Quick question for you supra, why did you multiply by 10.7 in the last line? Is that just a conversion factor?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top