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bruce786

Well-Known Member
Interesting Church, so what id think a sensible solution would be is to maybe mix a diluted epsom salt mix of 5ppm Mg, and give them a foliar spray and see if that counters it.
 
dandyrandy

dandyrandy

Well-Known Member
I have a GG4 cross that I had trouble with right off the bat. The leaves looked the same. I use soil and go by the looks of the plant only. I uses Peters bloom fert and a little calmag plus as the bloom usually has enough mag etc. The GG4 I had to add a tsp of calmag per gal for each watering as well as half dose the GG4 each watering of ferts. The SLH, 3D, and lsd no problems. I also had some SourD the same way. It seams the extra light energy makes some phenos need lots of something. I just slowly bump up until the plant looks good. Then I remember the history. I have a picture of the GG4 if you like. I have 6 5gal buckets in a ~12sq ft area. 8 Vero 29s running 100w each. The hungry plants I water a gallon and a half every day. The others every other day. They are 3' or so. I keep the canopy around 12" from the cobs. Never had a bleaching problem except when I ran multi colored leds. Probably no help since I have a small grow.
 
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bruce786

Well-Known Member
dandyrandy said:
I have a GG4 cross that I had trouble with right off the bat. The leaves looked the same. I use soil and go by the looks of the plant only. I uses Peters bloom fert and a little calmag plus as the bloom usually has enough mag etc. The GG4 I had to add a tsp of calmag per gal for each watering as well as half dose the GG4 each watering of ferts. The SLH, 3D, and lsd no problems. I also had some SourD the same way. It seams the extra light energy makes some phenos need lots of something. I just slowly bump up until the plant looks good. Then I remember the history. I have a picture of the GG4 if you like. I have 6 5gal buckets in a ~12sq ft area. 8 Vero 29s running 100w each. The hungry plants I water a gallon and a half every day. The others every other day. They are 3' or so. I keep the canopy around 12" from the cobs. Never had a bleaching problem except when I ran multi colored leds. Probably no help since I have a small grow.
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Hey dandy thanks for the input- post some pics up by all means. Be great to look at, and atleast im finding its a trend amongst other growers. Really had me stumped as during veg the plants are usually fine. Bear in mind ive grown this exact same cut for quite a few cycles so its strange for us to see.
I really think what churchaze has said is important because the damage seems too quick for an immobile element like calcium. Therefore magnesium does seem to be the culprit. Ill try an epsom salt foliar and see where that leads me.
 
dandyrandy

dandyrandy

Well-Known Member
bruce786 said:
Hey dandy thanks for the input- post some pics up by all means. Be great to look at, and atleast im finding its a trend amongst other growers. Really had me stumped as during veg the plants are usually fine. Bear in mind ive grown this exact same cut for quite a few cycles so its strange for us to see.
I really think what churchaze has said is important because the damage seems too quick for an immobile element like calcium. Therefore magnesium does seem to be the culprit. Ill try an epsom salt foliar and see where that leads me.
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I think I still have a few leaves like that one. Way down in the canopy. It corrected quickly with the new growth. I'll get some pics. Just got back from the grandkids soccer game and now I have to mow. I just lurk here. I grow very good weed for myself. With RIU and Seed companies I'm set. Now after reading all of the new stuff with the cxb3590's out, this winter I will sneak out to my ham shack and build a couple Realstyles high efficiency 400 watt passive cooled hood vented lights. I will retire the 2 Vero 29 bars. So much info From Supra, Testiclese ? Hope I got that correct. Thanks to all. I'll continue lurking.
 
dandyrandy

dandyrandy

Well-Known Member
This is one of the few lower leaves that is left that has some deficiencies. The picture with the wall on the right is the plant. It still has some purple leaf stems. But the others no issue. That is about 3wks. I feed the others half what it takes to make it grow well. And it transpires water at almost 1.5 gal a day.
 

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dandyrandy

dandyrandy

Well-Known Member
Sorry for the wirenutz. I had reflectors on and pulled them off too see the spread. The mounting screws are still there. I like them off for my application.
 
OneHitDone

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
I can also say that I have slightly increased the amount of magnesium sulfate in my own mix and noticed a significant improvement in leaf color and health.

Unfortunately, there are no forms of calcium for hydro that don't also contain nitrogen. Calcium nitrate is the only viable candidate, and thus the best choice. That being said, adding calcium will only antagonize magnesium uptake so if you already have enough calcium, it's best to avoid adding more. If you do have a magnesium deficiency, it would be better to only add magnesium, or even reduce calcium.
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What about Calcium Chloride? I have read is is recommended to add calcium chloride at 1/4th the rate of your calcium nitrate application for source water with less than 60ppm calcium
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
OneHitDone said:
What about Calcium Chloride? I have read is is recommended to add calcium chloride at 1/4th the rate of your calcium nitrate application for source water with less than 60ppm calcium
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Exactly. It's the extra chlorine that's not welcome. Calcium chloride is for animals. (bonemeal and lime dissolved in stomach acid).

That much extra chloride will antagonize NO3- and KH2PO4-.

In general, an element that's used significantly more than needed is considered toxic. Plants need little to no chlorine, so replacing calcium nitrate (a macro salt) with calcium chloride is counter-intuitive.
 
OneHitDone

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
Exactly. It's the extra chlorine that's not welcome. Calcium chloride is for animals. (bonemeal and lime dissolved in stomach acid).

That much extra chloride will antagonize NO3- and KH2PO4-.

In general, an element that's used significantly more than needed is considered toxic. Plants need little to no chlorine, so replacing calcium nitrate (a macro salt) with calcium chloride is counter-intuitive.
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You lost me a bit with the dissolved stomach acid thing lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_chloride

It is not recommended to replace the calcium nitrate load but rather supplement with 1/4 as much calcium chloride for source water deficient in calcium.

Does the chlorine not dissipate?

Now - if calcium can push phosphorous out of solution, how can we know what the max levels of each are for keeping our solution together?
 
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PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
OneHitDone said:
You lost me a bit with the dissolved stomach acid thing lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_chloride

It is not recommended to replace the calcium nitrate load but rather supplement with 1/4 as much calcium chloride for source water deficient in calcium.

Does the chlorine not dissipate?

Now - if calcium can push phosphorous out of solution, how can we know what the max levels of each are for keeping our solution together?
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that's chloride as a basic salt not free chlorine just give it up don't use it.
 
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bruce786

Well-Known Member
So at the moment things are going okay with the plants - ppm has been upped to 1250 mainly because i have no other explanation as to why they would be defecient in any element. Im going to bank on the generally hungry and go from there.

The main thing being seen with the plants now is really light tip growth almost lime green on the shoots. Again this is something ive not seen with Metal halide/Hps lighting. The chlorosis of the leaves has definetly slowed down (if not ceased)

For sure there are different nutrient requirements when changing to Led lighting as ive never seen some of these symptoms before. I hope the yield and quality is as good as ive seen in other journals.

Thought i had some pics to put up... will do it later.
 
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bruce786

Well-Known Member
Hey church, appreciate it. For iron im running at about 5ppm in my nutrient mix - Just curious what ppm your running iron at. I must say Plant health seems to have improved since boosting the ppms. Just the light green tips to deal with now.

Thanks
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
bruce786 said:
Hey church, appreciate it. For iron im running at about 5ppm in my nutrient mix - Just curious what ppm your running iron at. I must say Plant health seems to have improved since boosting the ppms. Just the light green tips to deal with now.

Thanks
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You should just do what you're doing. You seem to be almost dialed in to your mix anyway. 5ppm of iron is on the high side so the only reason it could be blocked out is high pH or too much calcium. Either way, I don't think you have serious problems.

I also run my iron at 5ppm exactly. I've noticed good results by running "on the high side" of iron. A guy named atomizer says it's pointless to run over 1-2ppm, but I think there's noticable improvements taking it to 5ppm (the upper end of Hoagland solution's iron range)
 
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