Creation Vs. Evolution

Then I guess you can't blame high cholesterol only on meat. There are other factors involved. OH SNAP................

How do you figure that misshestermoffitt. Cholesterol comes from animal fat....period. Do you know of another source?

If vegetarians have high cholesterol then it can't just be blamed on eating meat. My own doctor told me he has vegetarians that have high numbers. If cholesterol only comes from meat, yet people who eat no meat have issues with their cholesterol being high, then it's got to be coming from somewhere.

Cholesterol is also a genetic thing, it's not only from animal fat.

awwww Me thinks Johnny is offended and since he doesn't eat meat his brain can't come up with a sharp reply.........

"Who's screaming? Although you are getting quire shrill in your faux indignation. BTW, I'd be a pretty sorry vegetarian if I did not know what gelatin is made from. LOL! JohnnyO"

So how about that glue or those leather shoes Johnny, what does your dog eat?

misshestermoffitt said:

awwww Me thinks Johnny is offended and since he doesn't eat meat his brain can't come up with a sharp reply.........

"Who's screaming? Although you are getting quire shrill in your faux indignation. BTW, I'd be a pretty sorry vegetarian if I did not know what gelatin is made from. LOL! JohnnyO"

So how about that glue or those leather shoes Johnny, what does your dog eat?

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Your recriminations betray a guilty conscience.

My dog and cat eat food designed for them. They have no choice with their pointed snouts and sharp teeth. They are predators. It is not for me to violate their evolutionary paths. In my dog's case, he could survive, but might be unfulfilled if I did not procure the odd bone for him once in awhile. And my cat would die without taurine.

And for your information, I don't eat leather or glue either. Sadly, we live in a culture permeated with death. Every time I turn around I am confronted with a product which is derived from a dead animal. Even when I seal an envelope (by moistening with a wet sponge thingy) I know the glue is probably from a dead horse. But I don't worry about things which are out of my control. I do worry about the things I do control, and my diet is one of them. The fact that my diet makes your pussy hurt is hilarious.

Now let's get to leather. Whenever possible, I avoid buying products made from cured animal hides. I cannot control purchases I made before before I decided to eschew meat. As such I still have my baseball equipment and other items made from leather. When it comes to leather I know one thing: The sacrifice the animal made was made for whatever item I own. That sacrifice is acknowledged by me, but what is also acknowledged by me is the fact that said sacrifice was made once rather than every time I wear a pair of old combat boots from my Army days.

Such ideological purity is a practical impossibility in our culture. To meet the rigid expectations many meat eaters have for vegetarians in this regard would necessitate our staying home all day, every day. This is why I prefer the term strict vegetarian to vegan.

I don't recall anyone telling anyone to stop eating meat. You want to eat meat, have at it. I'll never try to stop you, ever. I also know that my diet does not require any justification whatsoever. It is my diet, after all. But the days of the timid vegetarian are gone. That's change I can believe in. You might as well get used to it.

If your goal is to offend me, you need to do much better than your usual strategy of catty remarks, tangential arguments, and sophistry. You'll forgive me if I do not respond to every one of your posts on cue, or on a regular schedule for that matter. I do not expect someone with 5,300+ posts racked up since June to comprehend. Such prodigious word vomit indicates a propensity to do significantly more posting than reading.

Jonus said:

Humans have become meat eaters. The type of teeth we have and the layout of our digestive system suggests we spent the first 99% of our existance evolving as herbivores.

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I concur, but it was meat which gave us the burst of warp speed brain power. Second star to the left plz.



out.

Jonus said:

And if you stop for a sec and look at the links I posted, you will notice you posted the same one.

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I was trying to respond to longbaugh and somehow responded to your post without realizing what you linked to. I guess I shouldn't before posting

Good job on those links. That Stein fakumentory also had a nice scathing review in The New Scientist and Scientific American
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=ben-steins-expelled-review-john-rennie

High cholesterol levels have been tied much more closely to a diet high in refined carbohydrates (and often subsequently low in greens and other vegetables) than simply animal fats. Along with general genetic tendencies, specific genetic tendencies, etcetera, it's not just tied to the types of fats one consumes, or the amounts of those fats.

We need to reword this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol

Because according to all the scientific contributors in that wiki article, and a few pair review papers on the subject, they claim, it is solely derrived from animal fats. At least we should add in a, "Critiques of pair reviewed scientific findings" section that states that because misshestermoffitt's doctor says that vegetarians (who are not vegans therefore not strictly non-animal product eaters) can have high cholesterol, and people genetically predisposed to high cholesterol get their cholesterol from the void, then its not exclusively from animal fats.

Seamaiden said:

High cholesterol levels have been tied much more closely to a diet high in refined carbohydrates (and often subsequently low in greens and other vegetables) than simply animal fats. Along with general genetic tendencies, specific genetic tendencies, etcetera, it's not just tied to the types of fats one consumes, or the amounts of those fats.

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They are tied together in studies not because refined carbs contain cholesterol though seamaiden, as much as drinking and drink driving related deaths are also associated with cars, does not mean that alcohol comes from cars.

What an adult comment, I'm just amazed at your adult ability to debate without acting like a child. Your parents must be so proud of you !!!

So wearing animals is fine, as long as you don't eat the meat. I think in order to stand behind your convictions you should bury all of your baseball equipment in the cemetary and buy a headstone for it. Then you can get all new equipment made from plant fibers.

You better do it, or I'll send the Hypocritical Vegan police to get you........

Johnnyorganic said:

The fact that my diet makes your pussy hurt is hilarious.

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So should I call my doctor tomorrow and tell him he's wrong based on the fact that since you've never heard that before it can't be true? When did you obtain your medical license exactly and what school did you attend?

Jonus said:

We need to reword this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol

Because according to all the scientific contributors in that wiki article, and a few pair review papers on the subject, they claim, it is solely derrived from animal fats. At least we should add in a, "Critiques of pair reviewed scientific findings" section that states that because misshestermoffitt's doctor says that vegetarians (who are not vegans therefore not strictly non-animal product eaters) can have high cholesterol, and people genetically predisposed to high cholesterol get their cholesterol from the void, then its not exclusively from animal fats.

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Firstly you shouldn't mistake me for being either a vegan or a vegetarian. I eat meat, I luv the shit, already said that in an earlier post.

But that doesn't change the facts. You wanted to know how a vegetarian could have high cholesterol and I gave you an answer. A lot of vegetarians will not eat meat, but will eat cheese and eggs which are high in cholesterol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism

And I stand by the findings of scientists and nutritional specialists that cholesterol is animal originated, and so I ask you again, 'Do you know of another source of cholesterol?'

misshestermoffitt said:

So should I call my doctor tomorrow and tell him he's wrong based on the fact that since you've never heard that before it can't be true? When did you obtain your medical license exactly and what school did you attend?

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Nope, but you can call your doctor and fill him in on vegetarianism and just how easy it is for vegetarians to have high cholesterol without eating meat.

So what should I say, some stoner on the pot growing site wants to know what your definition of a vegitarian is? I live in the midwest where we eat cows for breakfast, anyone who doesn't eat meat is a vegitarian to us, there aren't different levels of it here, you either are or you aren't.

Sure I can understand that, it wasnt until I had a sit down meal with the first vegetarian I ever met that I learnt that they are not strick non-animal people like my assumption of them was, and like vegans are. The fact of the matter is, the non-meat eating vegetarians can often scoff down more eggs and cheese to compensate for their meatless diets, making things worse for them than if they just went ahead and ate meat.

I can't see how they can call themselves vegetarians if they eat chicken abortions (that's what eggs are). Fish should be off limits too, it has a face you know. Now other dairy products where the animal isn't killed like milk products I can almost see, but they aren't actually vegetables, so if they really want to say their vegetarian they should only eat food made of plants only.

whats responsibility? Why do we have it? What's it for?

Then a work with what you have philoshy should be used to deal with xreationism evolution and vegetarianism.

Utilitarianism hehe.

misshestermoffitt said:

I can't see how they can call themselves vegetarians if they eat chicken abortions (that's what eggs are). Fish should be off limits too, it has a face you know. Now other dairy products where the animal isn't killed like milk products I can almost see, but they aren't actually vegetables, so if they really want to say their vegetarian they should only eat food made of plants only.

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Sure, but I think their reasoning for not eating meat differs from the more politically motivated vegans who tend to oppose any animal products, some even oppose fake animal products...go figure, some vegetarians tend to just not eat meat because they don't like meat.

Most vegetarians I know wont eat fish or meat. But some will eat seafood. Its not cut and dried, and thats why its easy to make the assumption when it comes to cholesterol and saturated fats I guess.

The other point I wanted to make is that the body needs cholesterol and saturated fats, but there is a limit on daily intake because unlike most other minerals etc, these are not absorbed into the blood like iron and magnesium etc, so too much intake causes a build up. According to Wikipedia its 200 milligrams per day that the human body needs and can safetly use up.

Seamaiden said:

High cholesterol levels have been tied much more closely to a diet high in refined carbohydrates (and often subsequently low in greens and other vegetables) than simply animal fats. Along with general genetic tendencies, specific genetic tendencies, etcetera, it's not just tied to the types of fats one consumes, or the amounts of those fats.

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Jonus said:

They are tied together in studies not because refined carbs contain cholesterol though seamaiden, as much as drinking and drink driving related deaths are also associated with cars, does not mean that alcohol comes from cars.

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Re-read my statement. Nowhere do I say that cholesterol is derived from anything other than animal sources. I am speaking specifically to "high cholesterol levels", which assumes we're talking about human blood work. I don't quite see where the rest is extrapolated from.