Creation Vs. Evolution

ThatGuyOverThere said:

yeah ive seen other movies about those worms. I was also watching some vids on youtube.

This one is (although long and can get somewhat nerdish) is pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bRvt0InhYk&feature=related

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Interesting video. However, their claim that the speed of light has always been constant is probably true but not necessarily so. One of the ways to get around the Horizon Problem is to show that c was faster in the past during the rapid expansion after the Big Bang. The physicist, João Magueijo doesn't believe in cosmic inflation theory (the most widely accepted theory that gets around the horizon problem), so he offers up an alternate explanation to inflation, which states that light used to travel faster than it does currently.

Of course none of this still supports the creationist argument even thought they would love to latch on to it, but it is interesting science nonetheless. If you are a science geek like me, it is worth reading one of his books or try to find one of his lectures on YouTube. He makes some quite compelling arguments.

i don't think the speed of light is constant. It's based on the permeability and permitivity of free space. Both of those things would have changed in the past ... assuming an inflationary universe.

I believe that evolution is absolutely valid science. However, I'm worried that too many scientists are getting narrow-minded in their paradigm. Knowledge has to be proven, but a lot of these guys just believe it if it's published in their favorite science periodical. Just as bad as fundamentalist religion, if you ask me.

I don't think that's true at all. Peer review is a BRUTAL process, and review their own peers they do, ruthlessly. I've known too many published authors who've experienced peer review to think otherwise. They seriously scrutinize each others' work, and when it holds water, then it becomes paradigm, dogmatic.

mindphuk said:

Interesting video. However, their claim that the speed of light has always been constant is probably true but not necessarily so. One of the ways to get around the Horizon Problem is to show that c was faster in the past during the rapid expansion after the Big Bang. The physicist, João Magueijo doesn't believe in cosmic inflation theory (the most widely accepted theory that gets around the horizon problem), so he offers up an alternate explanation to inflation, which states that light used to travel faster than it does currently.

Of course none of this still supports the creationist argument even thought they would love to latch on to it, but it is interesting science nonetheless. If you are a science geek like me, it is worth reading one of his books or try to find one of his lectures on YouTube. He makes some quite compelling arguments.

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Maueijo is indeed a very controversial fellow. You picked a fine one to throw into all this, didn't you? And then there's Dawkins.

evolution ,why haven't the coelacanths evolved?

Evolution is about changing to survive, maybe the coelacanths didn't need to change to survive, maybe they had everything they needed.

I believe we evolved, I believed we evolved as meat eaters, we are a predatory species for sure. We are just the product of the right circumstances.

im totally trippin out

Evolution.

no proof of god has ever been seen/documented.
I questioned an islamic friend about if they think god created the world, he said yes, i said prove it, he said i cant prove it, and asked if i could prove evolution, i said look at the link between monkeys and humans ect and i then said god doesnt exist, he said prove it, and i was like how can i prove that something isnt there, lol, and then i said well can you prove that there is no such thing as an elephant with green skin and a 20ft trunk that is blue.
then he shut up.(laughed it off later tho,were good mates)

robert 14617 said:

evolution ,why haven't the coelacanths evolved?

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For the same reasons crocodilians, sharks, skates, rays, dragonflies, ants, bees, and thousands upon thousands of other creatures have not evolved (past a certain point). No need. No pressure, no need.


Then we have animals such as fancy goldfish and pugs and miniature horses, and people wonder how evolution can occur when man's hand alone has made such changes. That's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it!

mindphuk said:

Interesting video. However, their claim that the speed of light has always been constant is probably true but not necessarily so. One of the ways to get around the Horizon Problem is to show that c was faster in the past during the rapid expansion after the Big Bang.

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I'm going to look into this a bit more has me somewhat intrested. The 3rd or 4th part of the video talks about c and how it isnt possible (atleast in relation to YECs)

ThatGuyOverThere said:

Good to see open minded people :]

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Ok I know that wasn't an open minded reply. I just spent my whole life hearing about it. Heavenly father this, Jesus that and then I lived in an evangelical christian area so even though my family believed almost exactly the same thing we were still going to hell for being Mormons.

Like Joseph Smith finding the golden plates and translating them is any less believable than the rest of the Bible.

NomadicSky said:

Like Joseph Smith finding the golden plates and translating them is any less believable than the rest of the Bible.

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Mormons ... Gold Plates? Can I ask you a question? I've always wondered this. Please don't think I'm being a skeptic. Now, these gold plates are in Salt Lake City, at the big temple, right? So does anybody ever get to see them? Is there any way that someone can radio-carbon date them?

Anybody see that Ben Stein movie, Expelled? I watched some parts of it and while it's obviously in favor of Intelligent Design, it certainly raises some interesting points about how the Intelligent Design community is being snuffed.

I think evolution is how it happened, mostly. You certainly have to admit that there's a few holes. Scientists need to be less defensive. Science is suppose to be attacked. That's the whole point.

why is it always creation OR evolution?
i believe we were created somehow. but i also know for a fact that as a planet everything evolves. somethings evolve slowly like global warming and different species. other things evolve fast like technology"cellphones".

i've got another questionwe all know that weed had changed it keeps getting better with selective breeding but is it evolving or are we creating it?

ElBarto said:

"Creation" is a myth.

"Evolution" is a scientific theory.

"Creation or evolution?" is like asking chocolate or the Dallas Cowboys?

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As far as CrackerJax (<--- that's me) sees it, El Barto hit the nail on the head in post #7.....


Of course my SIG may give one pause as to my neutrality.



out.

longbaugh said:

Mormons ... Gold Plates? Can I ask you a question? I've always wondered this. Please don't think I'm being a skeptic. Now, these gold plates are in Salt Lake City, at the big temple, right? So does anybody ever get to see them? Is there any way that someone can radio-carbon date them?

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If it's all true then no else in he 19th century ever saw them aside from Joseph Smith. He couldn't show them to anyone, and then when he was finished with the translation the angel Moroni came and took them and the artifacts that Smith had used to translate them (seer stone) back to heaven.

I don't believe it, none of it. The Mormon faith is crazy, then again so is the run of the mill Christian faith.

But I don't believe they ever existed.

The book of Mormon teaches that a group of Hebrews escape the Babylonian captivity and cross the Mediteranian and the Atlantic to land somewhere in the Americas and became the Native Americans.

I try telling my family there's no genetic evidence for this and my mom cried and told me I was wrong that I didn't understand God.

I've learned not to push it with my family. They believe it, it makes them happy. Who am I to challenge that?

Actually that episode of South Park with Joseph Smith actually did show their churches belief system rater well.

The amazing design of all natural things in the universe. The complexity of the human body. The individuality of the human brain. The personal soul. I would never claim to speak for anyone else but I have a soul. I know from personal spiritual experiences that there is one true God but proving things that are not of this world to people would negate the need for Faith. For the longest time I thought believing in God was theory. When I gave it a chance it truly changed me for the better in more ways than I have time to list. It is not about carbon dating or cosmic radiation its about who you really are aside from what this world has indoctrinated us with. I would never point fingers at anyone and say its my way or the highway. Everyone is on their own journey. Peace and love my grass burnin brothers.

Wait, I'm getting my Mormon education here and I'm freaking out. Their religion is based on some guy claiming to have translated gold plates that an angel whisked away to heaven? OMG that's a riot. People buy into this shit? Aren't the mormons the ones that can have more than one wife?


Organized religion is such a sham, I can't believe people of this day and age still fall for that shit.

misshestermoffitt said:

Wait, I'm getting my Mormon education here and I'm freaking out. Their religion is based on some guy claiming to have translated gold plates that an angel whisked away to heaven? OMG that's a riot.

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Yes, that's exactly it. Although, you've got to admit, it's no more far fetched than the Ten Commandments or the Burning Bush.

People buy into this shit?

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Absolutely. I've got an igloo to sell, too.

Aren't the mormons the ones that can have more than one wife?

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Past tense, were, the church no longer advocates polygamy. However, there was a very real, human incentive for that directive, just as with the Catholics, to reproduce as many of their kind as they could.

They're also the ones who sponsor Native Americans to help them get a better education. They'll feed you if you're broke, house you if you're poor, and they run Nordstrom. If I could still afford to shop at Nordstrom, and there was one within a decent proximity and I had places to go wearing Nordstrom-type clothes, I would.

Organized religion is such a sham, I can't believe people of this day and age still fall for that shit.

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They need to. Simple as that.

What about Buddhism? That's an organized religion, and if you go down by my folks' place in SoCal you'll find a very large monastery. It's just chock FULL of Buddhist monks!

What about practitioners of other, not so popular religions that still have their own dogma and rule sets and belief sets?

I don't think we'll get away from religion, not with our brains wired the way they are (which, naturally, brings me to wonder about the "religious experience" of other organisms we share the earth with), ever. That's alright, because if we did we'd find other reasons to kill each other.

misshestermoffitt said:

Wait, I'm getting my Mormon education here and I'm freaking out. Their religion is based on some guy claiming to have translated gold plates that an angel whisked away to heaven? OMG that's a riot. People buy into this shit? Aren't the mormons the ones that can have more than one wife?

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Heh! Wait 'til you find out about the magic underwear.

I am an evolutionary creationist... I blieve "god" made the everything and on earth he created life and set everthing in motion in their place in the infinate loop of time.

The bible said god made man, he didn;t say how... why could he not choose evolution. Especialy if you look at all the beauty and progression it brings us.

Bear in mind the bible describes things mostly in a way you would explain something complex like a divorce to a 3 year old... becasue that is all the majority can handle.
Normally the story is way off, but the truth is in there somewhere.