Cost-Breakdown of COB-Based Fixtures

AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
BM9AGS said:
Lol sigh....
CXB 3070 AD bin 3500k (PLC) is roughly 5% more efficient than CXB 3070 AB 3000k (GGL) including the lumen jump for higher temp
Both @ 300 watts to 6 cobs not including drivers.
They are dissipating same wattage.

At RIU price GGL is roughly 10% less expensive than PLC

That leaves GGL still 5% lower on $/dissipated watt
How are you working your numbers out?

Your math is still showing PLC roughly 10% higher at $/par w

How is this logical?


Now we all know PLC is best because of better name brand MW drivers for the extra money. And you can dial their drivers down to even more efficency and for cloning/germinating.

I'm just wanting to see the "long hand" that you used to make your conclusions. I know on the thread you linked a lot of the COBs were not shown as rated exactly at the wattage these lights are running. GGL should be 5% better but you're showing still 10% worse. So there's fudging involved but by math in my head you're 15% off. But it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong.

*what date will your C10 xl be available?
Click to expand...
PLC website shows they're using the best available CXB 3070 3500K chips, BB-bin (link). Additionally they aren't being ran at the same current, with the CX300 running ~1.4A+ per COB and the GGL 300 at 1.33A, as stated on their site. This means the GGL is dissipating ~282W, not 300W.

Quality COBS make a difference. So do drivers. I've said it before and I'll state it again, a COB is only as good as it's driver.

I don't mind showing my work and will make it easier for anyone to follow along with my math by displaying this in the coming day(s). Warning, it's not rocket science!

For any inquires about anything else not relating to this thread, please find an alternative destination to send those questions.
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
Quality COBS make a difference. So do drivers. I've said it before and I'll state it again, a COB is only as good as it's driver.
Click to expand...
So why do you use MeanWell instead of say,

Hatch: http://www.hatchlighting.com/ (Nice guys too!),



or have XP Power make you custom ones for HBs, (They make a shit ton of different power supplies for all industries),
http://www.xppower.com/EN/g100004/AC-DC-Power-Supplies-LED-Drivers



or use Philips, who make some fine drivers. Xitanium CC Xtreme anyone?
http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lighting-electronics/led-electronic-drivers
http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lighting-electronics/led-electronic-drivers/xitanium-constant-current-xtreme


or even CREEs?
http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-and-Modules/Products/Accessories/drivers/LMD300




You guys use MeanWell because they are cheap and good enough for our thing, don't fool yourselves. Has anyone here seen an independent testing of MeanWells efficiency ratings? You talk to those guys at Hatch and you'll realize no one on this board really knows their shit about drivers. But that's cool, it's why people need each other.

Edit: OK on second thought SDS and Guod might know there shit about drivers.
 
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JimmyIndica

JimmyIndica

Well-Known Member
Not every fixture is built to same quality and potential users should never buy a fixture based on price.
Sorry but I would pay more to buy the PLC over the gogreen if those were my two choices.
BTW. PLC uses Meanwell HLG, GoGreen Chingchong ,Just the drivers(used) would make me pay for the PLC over the GG.

Coverage area vs watts used /Build quality/Components used is more important than price.
I am pretty sure the 24in x 24in PLC covers a 3x3 too!
How can a 12x12 GG cover same 3x3 area at 16inches? Replace a 400watt HID? Not a chance.
Ive been told angled lenses but there are 4 COBs and if ya angle out? what happens to center areas?
I need help understanding this?
I had to come back and edit this after I did some research on the 450watt gogreen
17.5in x 17.5 in fixture that replaces a 1000watt HID over a 4 x 4 at 16in??
That's a joke right?
Its a spiderman with 3070s too me!
Its like putting a LS1 in a chevy chevetteo_O
Smoke and Mirrors marketing strategy is bad for everyone involved. Its part of the problem taking this tech mainstream.IMO
IMG_0627.JPG
 
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AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
@JimmyIndica

What was the point of posting a photo of an unknown fixture in your post? :confused:
Do you have any numbers for that fixture that I can crunch out on the spreadsheets?

@FranJan

Is your point that MeanWell drivers, in your opinion, are overrated? Well, from my many recordings and calculations, there is a minor discrepancy to the efficiency rating they post on their sheets and what really transpires from the wall, typically with the former being higher than the latter by a full percent or two. Mean Well gets a good rep here on this forum and for good reason. I believe we are now at a point in the DIY world where we can branch out in terms of using various branded drivers that aren't fully evaluated by the public, such as the ones you mentioned. Furthermore, I think you would serve as the best candidate for that position and hope you make a thread soon on the evaluation of LED drivers besides Mean Well.
 
JimmyIndica

JimmyIndica

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
@JimmyIndica

What was the point of posting a photo of an unknown fixture in your post? :confused:
Do you have any numbers for that fixture that I can crunch out on the spreadsheets?

@FranJan

Is your point that MeanWell drivers, in your opinion, are overrated? Well, from my many recordings and calculations, there is a minor discrepancy to the efficiency rating they post on their sheets and what really transpires from the wall, typically with the former being higher than the latter by a full percent or two. Mean Well gets a good rep here on this forum and for good reason. I believe we are now at a point in the DIY world where we can branch out in terms of using various branded drivers that aren't fully evaluated by the public, such as the ones you mentioned. Furthermore, I think you would serve as the best candidate for that position and hope you make a thread soon on the evaluation of LED drivers besides Mean Well.
Click to expand...
Cree CXB3590 CB 30G 72volt, Meanwell HLG-185h-1400b, Coolstrate CSL-8070SQ
 
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AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
HiloReign said:
Seemed like "So why do you use MeanWell instead of say..." was his point?....

My question is why would you intentionally leave your company out of this comparison?
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There was obviously a condescending point behind their question (and pictures of random drivers).

To answer your question, I figured including the price breakdown for a company that I'm associated with would bring out the trolls rather than bring forth those who are both new and familiar to LED/COBs. The whole point of me presenting this chart in the first place was to demonstrate to anyone interested in jumping into the thread the real costs behind today's COB-based fixtures. I have no problems throwing up a chart for Heaven Bright but wanted the initial chart to be modest on my end.
 
BM9AGS

BM9AGS

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
There was obviously a condescending point behind their question (and pictures of random drivers).

To answer your question, I figured including the price breakdown for a company that I'm associated with would bring out the trolls rather than bring forth those who are both new and familiar to LED/COBs. The whole point of me presenting this chart in the first place was to demonstrate to anyone interested in jumping into the thread the real costs behind today's COB-based fixtures. I have no problems throwing up a chart for Heaven Bright but wanted the initial chart to be modest on my end.
Click to expand...
I'd like to see your fixtures included. You're one of the light makers so be proud of your fixtures.
 
HiloReign

HiloReign

Well-Known Member
You avoided the question, that's all I meant.

Well, I'm sure you don't have a problem doing it lol. I was just curious why you're excluding it when you know it's going to be asked for anyway. If the comparison is fair and the competitors are also getting exposure, it's relevant to anyone who's interested in the thread title... Trolls or not.
 
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
FranJan said:
So why do you use MeanWell instead of say,

Hatch: http://www.hatchlighting.com/ (Nice guys too!),



or have XP Power make you custom ones for HBs, (They make a shit ton of different power supplies for all industries),
http://www.xppower.com/EN/g100004/AC-DC-Power-Supplies-LED-Drivers



or use Philips, who make some fine drivers. Xitanium CC Xtreme anyone?
http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lighting-electronics/led-electronic-drivers
http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lighting-electronics/led-electronic-drivers/xitanium-constant-current-xtreme


or even CREEs?
http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-and-Modules/Products/Accessories/drivers/LMD300




You guys use MeanWell because they are cheap and good enough for our thing, don't fool yourselves. Has anyone here seen an independent testing of MeanWells efficiency ratings? You talk to those guys at Hatch and you'll realize no one on this board really knows their shit about drivers. But that's cool, it's why people need each other.

Edit: OK on second thought SDS and Guod might know there shit about drivers.
Click to expand...
For the DIY builder on a budget, philips xitanium drivers are awesome. You can score some pretty good deals on ebay on occasion for packages of 3 or 5.
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
There was obviously a condescending point behind their question (and pictures of random drivers)..
Click to expand...
Nothing random bout those drivers.
See, while I love your spirit of entrepreneurship, I despise your lack of knowledge. I always get the feeling your posts are about getting someone else to do your homework for you for some reason. You use MeanWell because Supra uses them not because you know something about drivers. Nothing wrong with that btw but when you say that horseshit about "a COB being as only .....", it begs the question "what the fuck does AP know about drivers?". And I am in no way qualified to be testing drivers, that's your gig. I'm just a poor closet grower.

Will I be seeing you at LEDucation 10 this year? They had to move it to the Sheraton because they needed more room I believe.
http://ecmweb.com/leducation10
 
BM9AGS

BM9AGS

Well-Known Member
FranJan said:
Nothing random bout those drivers.
See, while I love your spirit of entrepreneurship, I despise your lack of knowledge. I always get the feeling your posts are about getting someone else to do your homework for you for some reason. You use MeanWell because Supra uses them not because you know something about drivers. Nothing wrong with that btw but when you say that horseshit about "a COB being as only .....", it begs the question "what the fuck does AP know about drivers?". And I am in no way qualified to be testing drivers, that's your gig. I'm just a poor closet grower.

Will I be seeing you at LEDucation 10 this year? They had to move it to the Sheraton because they needed more room I believe.
http://ecmweb.com/leducation10
Click to expand...
Yep I don't buy the cob being as good as the driver crap. cheap Chinese or gold layered PCB you're providing a constant power to a constant draw led. Any driver will do just the cheap ones may not last as long.
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
HiloReign said:
You avoided the question, that's all I meant.

Well, I'm sure you don't have a problem doing it lol. I was just curious why you're excluding it when you know it's going to be asked for anyway. If the comparison is fair and the competitors are also getting exposure, it's relevant to anyone who's interested in the thread title... Trolls or not.
Click to expand...
True and good point.

BM9AGS said:
I'd like to see your fixtures included. You're one of the light makers so be proud of your fixtures.
Click to expand...
It's not a matter of being proud but more so trying to avoid trolls; they will find any excuse to crucify me and my position here on RIU and will simmer on any justification to back their motives.

@FranJan

FranJan said:
Nothing random bout those drivers.
See, while I love your spirit of entrepreneurship, I despise your lack of knowledge. I always get the feeling your posts are about getting someone else to do your homework for you for some reason. You use MeanWell because Supra uses them not because you know something about drivers. Nothing wrong with that btw but when you say that horseshit about "a COB being as only .....", it begs the question "what the fuck does AP know about drivers?". And I am in no way qualified to be testing drivers, that's your gig. I'm just a poor closet grower.

Will I be seeing you at LEDucation 10 this year? They had to move it to the Sheraton because they needed more room I believe.
http://ecmweb.com/leducation10
Click to expand...
Why do I always feel like I have to defend myself with you and your condescending comments? Who again are you to hang me upside down on the wall, only to pick at me with your uneducated thoughts on where my knowledge lays? There's a lot more behind the scenes that you can't see, buddyboi.

I've said it before and I'll state it again, assumptions can be very misleading.
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
BM9AGS said:
Yep I don't buy the cob being as good as the driver crap. cheap Chinese or gold layered PCB you're providing a constant power to a constant draw led. Any driver will do just the cheap ones may not last as long.
Click to expand...
No, no there's more knowledgeable companies making better drivers than others. You tell XP Power or Hatch you need a certain ripple or phase and they can do that but that's a different ballgame than what we want or need, as far as know :). I run all kinds of drivers, some shit, but how much is that 85% really costing me compared to a 91% efficient driver costing me in electricity? In grams? Maybe for the big boys they need to know that but I'm in a 4'x2'+ so I need a driver that works so MeanWell is great but I'd take that Hatch any day. I use my A series Meanwell to tweak my temps but I'd rather slap in an ILOC 900 to 700 mA key than get out the screwdriver and multi-meter.
 
BM9AGS

BM9AGS

Well-Known Member
FranJan said:
No, no there's more knowledgeable companies making better drivers than others. You tell XP Power or Hatch you need a certain ripple or phase and they can do that but that's a different ballgame than what we want or need, as far as know :). I run all kinds of drivers, some shit, but how much is that 85% really costing me compared to a 91% efficient driver costing me in electricity? In grams? Maybe for the big boys they need to know that but I'm in a 4'x2'+ so I need a driver that works so MeanWell is great but I'd take that Hatch any day. I use my A series Meanwell to tweak my temps but I'd rather slap in an ILOC 900 to 700 mA key than get out the screwdriver and multi-meter.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you can get technical and to some people the details may matter. I remember some guy in computer over clocking trying to sell an electrical cord for $1500 saying it cleaned and perfected the electricity. Just lots of BS. I'm happy with the Chinese ones that come in the GGL lights. I support cheap child labor products imported in my country for my Benifit.
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
@FranJan

Monster Inc.!!! What a classic animation!

What numbers are you after? Hypocrisy? How so playa?

@BM9AGS

I've tested a few different generic, no/small name drivers from China and while they've always worked for me in my small scale experiments, I've noted some oddities between using them and Mean Well's, like irregular buzzing noises, COB after glow, flickering, slow power on, etc. Also I fancy the data sheets that Mean Well provides the public; I'm a bit of a number nerd if you can't tell already.

I'm all for trying new branded drivers but it's like one of those things where when something works for you repeatedly over time, there's got to be a direct incentive besides curiosity to get you to take a chance with something new.
 
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