Copper deficiency?

Nutty sKunK · Dec 2, 2019

Hey guys!

I have 3 autos going atm which are a month old but one in particular is throwing a wobbly.

They all exhibit the same symptoms just to a lesser extent. White tips on new growth anda bluish hue to the leaves. Unlike nute burn the tips are not browning - just staying yellow and are curling.

They are in lightmix/batmix 30:70 and have been fed of rain water with the odd dose of calmag.

I thought it was light burn at first but it’s even occurring on the new growth that’s really far away from the light.

At first I’m thinking pH but it dawned on me there’s no copper in the soil mix/water.

Any suggestions on how to add copper? I’m thinking some copper coins in water overnight?

curious2garden · Dec 2, 2019

Nutty sKunK said:
Hey guys!

I have 3 autos going atm which are a month old but one in particular is throwing a wobbly.

They all exhibit the same symptoms just to a lesser extent. White tips on new growth anda bluish hue to the leaves. Unlike nute burn the tips are not browning - just staying yellow and are curling.

They are in lightmix/batmix 30:70 and have been fed of rain water with the odd dose of calmag.

I thought it was light burn at first but it’s even occurring on the new growth that’s really far away from the light.

At first I’m thinking pH but it dawned on me there’s no copper in the soil mix/water.

Any suggestions on how to add copper? I’m thinking some copper coins in water overnight?

View attachment 4430402 View attachment 4430404 View attachment 4430405 View attachment 4430407

It looks like nutrient burn to me. What did you change? Did you repot etc...?

This is why I don't think it's Cu problems

danielbae · Dec 2, 2019

nute burn

Nutty sKunK · Dec 2, 2019

curious2garden said:
It looks like nutrient burn to me. What did you change? Did you repot etc...?

This is why I don't think it's Cu problems
View attachment 4430440

I’m aware of Jose’s plant guide but two sites here are showing yellow tips without burning as symptoms.

The dark green margins marry up with Jose’s findings and other sources. So that leads me to believe it is indeed a copper deficiency.

Check out these two sources;

How to fix Cannabis Copper Deficiency (Cu) Pics & Symptoms

Cannabis leaf edges and tips turning yellow? Copper deficiency can cause dark, shiny leaves with purple or blue undertones. Learn how to spot and treat it!

www.growweedeasy.com

https://www.royalqueenseeds. blog com/blog-copper-deficiency-in-cannabis-symptoms-and-treatment-n828

Both of them state yellowing tips. Also the wilting that Jose’s chart suggest is also true.

Nutty sKunK · Dec 2, 2019

danielbae said:
nute burn

The tips aren’t dying. Read the two sources I posted above

Ryante55 · Dec 2, 2019

Looks like there's alot wrong hopefully that will finish for you. Get another plant started

Nutty sKunK · Dec 2, 2019

Ryante55 said:
Looks like there's alot wrong hopefully that will finish for you. Get another plant started

I have my doubts with it too but you never know. These plants are hardy as fuck. And will do anything to bud.

was old ass soil so wondering if that’s the problem - got a new different brand waiting. Just hoping these are pull through and they can as MJ is pretty resilient.

I have a window to rectify it - but ultimately is closing rapidly :/

curious2garden · Dec 2, 2019

Nutty sKunK said:
I’m aware of Jose’s plant guide but two sites here are showing yellow tips without burning as symptoms.

The dark green margins marry up with Jose’s findings and other sources. So that leads me to believe it is indeed a copper deficiency.

Check out these two sources;

How to fix Cannabis Copper Deficiency (Cu) Pics & Symptoms

Cannabis leaf edges and tips turning yellow? Copper deficiency can cause dark, shiny leaves with purple or blue undertones. Learn how to spot and treat it!

www.growweedeasy.com

https://www.royalqueenseeds. blog com/blog-copper-deficiency-in-cannabis-symptoms-and-treatment-n828

Both of them state yellowing tips. Also the wilting that Jose’s chart suggest is also true.

You aren't showing interveinal chlorosis which is what those pics are showing. You don't have a Cu deficiency

curious2garden · Dec 2, 2019

Nutty sKunK said:
The tips aren’t dying. Read the two sources I posted above

They don't have to die to be burnt. Anyway when did you move them to that soil mix. Good luck, I hope you figure it out.

Nutty sKunK · Dec 2, 2019

curious2garden said:
You aren't showing interveinal chlorosis which is what those pics are showing. You don't have a Cu deficiency

I believe that’s a more extreme case those pictures.

The leaves are intensely blue and shiny in that photo - mine are greener so copper is there just either not enough or its being antagonised...

I moved into the soil on the 21st but they were already showing signs of white tips before the transplant.

Nutty sKunK · Dec 2, 2019

This is them the day of the transplant. She is the top right - the one with the bright white tips.
It’s got really bad during this stretching period as she needed her copper chops.

curious2garden · Dec 2, 2019

Nutty sKunK said:
This is them the day of the transplant. She is the top right - the one with the bright white tips.
It’s got really bad during this stretching period as she needed her copper chops.

View attachment 4430632

Still no interveinal chlorosis which is hallmark Cu. Anyway I wish you luck, in the end they are your plants and your call. Report back what you find, thanks.

PS @cannabineer can you tell him how to add Cu?

DustyDuke · Dec 2, 2019

She looks like she’s had a few issues. It’s an auto I can’t see it bouncing back well. I would say nute burn but you’ve got your heart set on copper.
Hope she turns around for you

TessaMaria · Dec 2, 2019

Nutty sKunK said:
Hey guys!

I have 3 autos going atm which are a month old but one in particular is throwing a wobbly.

They all exhibit the same symptoms just to a lesser extent. White tips on new growth anda bluish hue to the leaves. Unlike nute burn the tips are not browning - just staying yellow and are curling.

They are in lightmix/batmix 30:70 and have been fed of rain water with the odd dose of calmag.

I thought it was light burn at first but it’s even occurring on the new growth that’s really far away from the light.

At first I’m thinking pH but it dawned on me there’s no copper in the soil mix/water.

Any suggestions on how to add copper? I’m thinking some copper coins in water overnight?

View attachment 4430402 View attachment 4430404 View attachment 4430405 View attachment 4430407

I have a THC auto bomb that got that light tip and curling at the tips. I finally got a PH meter from the Grow Biz by then my plant was already 8 weeks old and the soil slurry test PH was 7.5-8.1. I had a really hard time getting it down, it took over a month to bring it down to 7. I changed 1/2 of the soil with (2 parts FFOF soil amended with 1 part perlite) I flushed with water at 6.1. Added bone meal and started watering with 6.1 water. I also added a lot of microbe life and am using citric acid to bring the tap water (that sets out overnight) down. I have been foliar spraying with worm casting tea that I ph down to 6.5-7.
My plant still looks very different and it’s way past the seed banks timeline..... But I also have it outdoor and it’s not getting enough sunlight.

I am positive that the deficiencies showed up when the PH was out of control. Because once the PH started getting better(after soil change). The new growth looked way better. But it’s and auto flower and it only has so much time to veg, I think mine re-vegged. It can happen....

Nutty sKunK · Dec 3, 2019

TessaMaria said:
I have a THC auto bomb that got that light tip and curling at the tips. I finally got a PH meter from the Grow Biz by then my plant was already 8 weeks old and the soil slurry test PH was 7.5-8.1. I had a really hard time getting it down, it took over a month to bring it down to 7. I changed 1/2 of the soil with (2 parts FFOF soil amended with 1 part perlite) I flushed with water at 6.1. Added bone meal and started watering with 6.1 water. I also added a lot of microbe life and am using citric acid to bring the tap water (that sets out overnight) down. I have been foliar spraying with worm casting tea that I ph down to 6.5-7.
My plant still looks very different and it’s way past the seed banks timeline..... But I also have it outdoor and it’s not getting enough sunlight.

I am positive that the deficiencies showed up when the PH was out of control. Because once the PH started getting better(after soil change). The new growth looked way better. But it’s and auto flower and it only has so much time to veg, I think mine re-vegged. It can happen....

Interesting you say that regarding pH. My last batch got fucked up by a too high a pH. But that was me adding a bit of lime to it.

So I just went plain old soil and worm castings this time and still not 100% happy. Guess my soil is fucked or something.

Ach well. Will try feeding at a lower pH to offset it. That’s how I managed to save a couple from
The first batch.

TessaMaria · Dec 3, 2019

I would check the soil PH to make sure it’s high because I think the symptoms can be the similar if the soil PH is too low as well.

Feeding foliar helped my plant and I know there are organic formulas with micro nutrients in them.

I know people don’t like to spray stuff on their flowers but I grow outside and I always wash my flowers before I dry them and they taste great and smoke smooth. But the unwashed flowers are very very harsh and taste like crap. The washing process is easy but you have to be gentle when going through the wash and the rinses are very important!!!

Nutty sKunK · Dec 3, 2019

DustyDuke said:
She looks like she’s had a few issues. It’s an auto I can’t see it bouncing back well. I would say nute burn but you’ve got your heart set on copper.
Hope she turns around for you

The reason I’m disregarding nute burn Is because I haven’t fed them and they were showing no signs of burn for the first 2-3 weeks - then these white tips started appearing.

@TessaMaria

Well I’m fairly confident it’s high pH as copper is available even in acidic mediums - also as I said the other batch where fucked from a high pH. The small amount of dolomite lime pushed Them over the edge.

Just fed them now at 4.7 1/2 strength nutes. See how she fairs

cannabineer · Dec 3, 2019

curious2garden said:
Still no interveinal chlorosis which is hallmark Cu. Anyway I wish you luck, in the end they are your plants and your call. Report back what you find, thanks.

PS @cannabineer can you tell him how to add Cu?

Nutty sKunK said:
Hey guys!

I have 3 autos going atm which are a month old but one in particular is throwing a wobbly.

They all exhibit the same symptoms just to a lesser extent. White tips on new growth anda bluish hue to the leaves. Unlike nute burn the tips are not browning - just staying yellow and are curling.

They are in lightmix/batmix 30:70 and have been fed of rain water with the odd dose of calmag.

I thought it was light burn at first but it’s even occurring on the new growth that’s really far away from the light.

At first I’m thinking pH but it dawned on me there’s no copper in the soil mix/water.

Any suggestions on how to add copper? I’m thinking some copper coins in water overnight?

View attachment 4430402 View attachment 4430404 View attachment 4430405 View attachment 4430407

@Nutty sKunK
You have to be very careful with copper ions. The toxic range is just above the effective nutrient concentration. You can kill a plant fast with a very small amount. Copper in hydro is usually held to 0.04 to 0.2 ppm.
if you want to add copper, I’d make a 0.05 ppm solution of copper sulfate pentahydrate (blue crystals, available as drain root killer) then drench the soil with it.

To make that solution, I would use a serial dilution strategy as follows. 0.05 ppm copper is 0.2 ppm copper sulfate pentahydrate.

1) Make a 20.0% solution by dissolving 20.0 grams copper sulfate in pure water to make 100.0 ml solution.
2) Measure out 10.0 ml of that blue solution and add pure water to 1000. ml; this is now a 0.20% solution which is 2000 ppm copper sulfate.
3) Take 10.0 ml of the2000 ppm solution and dilute to 1000 ml. This is a 20 ppm solution.
4) Take 100 ml of the 20 ppm solution and mix it with 9.9 liters water to make a 0.2 ppm copper sulfate (0.05 ppm copper) solution. Drench the soil.

That said, I doubt copper is your issue. I recommend fixing that rather than risk a copper overdose. While your soil doesn’t list a copper content, all soil contains some.

Nutty sKunK · Dec 3, 2019

cannabineer said:
@Nutty sKunK
You have to be very careful with copper ions. The toxic range is just above the effective nutrient concentration. You can kill a plant fast with a very small amount. Copper in hydro is usually held to 0.04 to 0.2 ppm.
if you want to add copper, I’d make a 0.05 ppm solution of copper sulfate pentahydrate (blue crystals, available as drain root killer) then drench the soil with it.

To make that solution, I would use a serial dilution strategy as follows. 0.05 ppm copper is 0.2 ppm copper sulfate pentahydrate.

1) Make a 20.0% solution by dissolving 20.0 grams copper sulfate in pure water to make 100.0 ml solution.
2) Measure out 10.0 ml of that blue solution and add pure water to 1000. ml; this is now a 0.20% solution which is 2000 ppm copper sulfate.
3) Take 10.0 ml of the2000 ppm solution and dilute to 1000 ml. This is a 20 ppm solution.
4) Take 100 ml of the 20 ppm solution and mix it with 9.9 liters water to make a 0.2 ppm copper sulfate (0.05 ppm copper) solution. Drench the soil.

That said, I doubt copper is your issue. I recommend fixing that rather than risk a copper overdose. While your soil doesn’t list a copper content, all soil contains some.

Saving this - valuable information buddy, thanks for sharing.

Other than nute burn/pH not sure what else it could be.

I’m working on the pH side of things but tempted to start again and out these to one side and ride out.

Once problems like these start cropping up it’s usually a sign of what’s to come.

curious2garden · Dec 3, 2019

Nutty sKunK said:
Saving this - valuable information buddy, thanks for sharing.

Other than nute burn/pH not sure what else it could be.

I’m working on the pH side of things but tempted to start again and out these to one side and ride out.

Once problems like these start cropping up it’s usually a sign of what’s to come.

I doubt it's pH since you're in soil and your microbes should take care of you. My understanding is bat guano can be pretty hot. One way to sort this and learn is repot one, dose another with Cu and leave the third as a control.

My guess is you'll save one.
Good luck

Copper deficiency?

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