Coots vs subs

Will make both and test but

I basiclt asked about subs and was told to do coots.as sub was dated.
Spent the whole time thinking it needs this n tht extra. And then i lool at subs after seing som other home made recipies that appealed.

Then i notice subs is basicly what's in my head from years researching... Lol.

Has any 1 done a side by side?
I find less coots diarys than subs and same vidos.
But see more doing coots on writeups. very few diarys tho i seen alot small ones.. And a few big grows

Subs i seen alot more big grows n less writeups n followers.
Cant be the only 1 thinking it?

Ive got 2 freaking awsome castings so im tryin coots but cooking a sub and cooking a custom

After this coots. Il swap 1 livingcoot into my subscook. And put that coot in my other grow room with the custom as worms wil have preped it clackmas ewc style by then

Then ill amend as i see results by my 3rd notill

Found a few guys am following now.
Any instas worth lookin at?

Start of a good thread me thinks

I actually have experience using both Sub's soil and Coots'/Cornell University's soil mix.

I used Sub's supersoil from 2011 to 2015 until I moved out of California. I had intended on running supersoil again but stumbled across the living soil thread on Grasscity and was sold on Coots' mix.

I've been running Coots' mix since 2015, having made some adjustments to it the past couple of years due to my personal situation with using well water and no longer having a good source of compost.

Since last year, my mix has been Coots' "style" but not exactly his mix. I run 40% peat/40% perlite/20% compost. I use the same amounts of Neem and Kelp Meals that he does. I substitute Crab Meal in favor of a local 4-6-4 blend of amendments due to the Ca content in the Crab Meal, causing me to have to substitute it. This is only because of how heavily calcified my well water is, and is a very niche situation. I top dress with the above amendments every 2-4 weeks, then cover with compost.


Before I continue, let me emphasize that I have a large amount of respect for Subcool. His approach, and attitude/personality, he's a very down to earth and humble guy that isn't patronizing in the slightest. The flavor of his strains are phenomenal. Having said all of that, Subcool has said himself "I do not know why my soil works, I'm not an organic expert, I just know it works for me and may work for you".


I loved Sub's soil when I used it, and it was what inspired me to make the switch to living organics because of the flavor it is capable of producing. Having run both Subs and Coots mix, I prefer Coots mix for a variety of reasons.

1) Coots mix can be used instantly, Subs mix needs to be cooked for 4-8 weeks.

2) You can start seedlings/clones in Coots mix, Subs mix cannot be used until late veg/flower. As I'm sure you know, Sub layers his pots, Supersoil on bottom, supersoil/base soil in the middle, and base soil on top. So, you're at the mercy of your base soil for 4-6 weeks until the roots start to reach the supersoil. If the supersoil is still too hot for your roots, it will delay growth until the roots/plant get acclimated.

3) Cost. Subs soil uses tons of ingredients, Coots a handful. I can make 2-3x the soil using Coots recipe instead of Subs, and for half the price. Buying 8 bags of retail soil for $15 a pop adds up quick, that's like $120 just in retail soil alone. Or $10/cuft soil. Coots 1:1:1 ratio is much cheaper, 4cuft perlite ($20) and 4cuft peat ($20), and 4cuft compost ($free-$40) results in $40-$80 for the same 12cuft of soil, or $3.5-$6.5/cuft soil. Less cost in amendments as well.

4) Subs soil is nearly impossible to use in a no-till grow. Coots mix, I can constantly top dress with the same light amendments and keep the pots no-till for years. If I tried to top dress with Sub's choice of amendments, I'd burn the fuck out of my plants if not outright kill them.

5) Sub's soil uses too much "retail" soil for my taste, often overpriced and mediocre in quality at best. You could make your own base soil with peat/perlite/compost instead of buying retail bags of soil. In fact, I substituted the retail soil with coco when I used sub's mix. Cheaper, and better soil texture which brings me to my next point.

6) Coots soil has a much better texture/consistency to it than Subs. Compare the two side by side, Coots soil is much more "root friendly". Anyone who's had experience mixing both soils will know what I'm talking about.



Again, I love Subcool. Haven't seen or heard from the guy in a while though, and I'm curious to know if he's even using the supersoil anymore.

Having used both, Coots wins on all accounts. Its cheaper, more plant friendly, very light in both texture and nutritional content, much more balanced, and can be run No-till or ROLS.

Instead of searching "coots mix" in your research, search "living soil" or "living organic soil" instead. Coots mix has become so standardized in the past few years that it seems that it is just kind of assumed that most people are using it when referring to a living soil.

kratos015 said:

I actually have experience using both Sub's soil and Coots'/Cornell University's soil mix.

I used Sub's supersoil from 2011 to 2015 until I moved out of California. I had intended on running supersoil again but stumbled across the living soil thread on Grasscity and was sold on Coots' mix.

I've been running Coots' mix since 2015, having made some adjustments to it the past couple of years due to my personal situation with using well water and no longer having a good source of compost.

Since last year, my mix has been Coots' "style" but not exactly his mix. I run 40% peat/40% perlite/20% compost. I use the same amounts of Neem and Kelp Meals that he does. I substitute Crab Meal in favor of a local 4-6-4 blend of amendments due to the Ca content in the Crab Meal, causing me to have to substitute it. This is only because of how heavily calcified my well water is, and is a very niche situation. I top dress with the above amendments every 2-4 weeks, then cover with compost.


Before I continue, let me emphasize that I have a large amount of respect for Subcool. His approach, and attitude/personality, he's a very down to earth and humble guy that isn't patronizing in the slightest. The flavor of his strains are phenomenal. Having said all of that, Subcool has said himself "I do not know why my soil works, I'm not an organic expert, I just know it works for me and may work for you".


I loved Sub's soil when I used it, and it was what inspired me to make the switch to living organics because of the flavor it is capable of producing. Having run both Subs and Coots mix, I prefer Coots mix for a variety of reasons.

1) Coots mix can be used instantly, Subs mix needs to be cooked for 4-8 weeks.

2) You can start seedlings/clones in Coots mix, Subs mix cannot be used until late veg/flower. As I'm sure you know, Sub layers his pots, Supersoil on bottom, supersoil/base soil in the middle, and base soil on top. So, you're at the mercy of your base soil for 4-6 weeks until the roots start to reach the supersoil. If the supersoil is still too hot for your roots, it will delay growth until the roots/plant get acclimated.

3) Cost. Subs soil uses tons of ingredients, Coots a handful. I can make 2-3x the soil using Coots recipe instead of Subs, and for half the price. Buying 8 bags of retail soil for $15 a pop adds up quick, that's like $120 just in retail soil alone. Or $10/cuft soil. Coots 1:1:1 ratio is much cheaper, 4cuft perlite ($20) and 4cuft peat ($20), and 4cuft compost ($free-$40) results in $40-$80 for the same 12cuft of soil, or $3.5-$6.5/cuft soil. Less cost in amendments as well.

4) Subs soil is nearly impossible to use in a no-till grow. Coots mix, I can constantly top dress with the same light amendments and keep the pots no-till for years. If I tried to top dress with Sub's choice of amendments, I'd burn the fuck out of my plants if not outright kill them.

5) Sub's soil uses too much "retail" soil for my taste, often overpriced and mediocre in quality at best. You could make your own base soil with peat/perlite/compost instead of buying retail bags of soil. In fact, I substituted the retail soil with coco when I used sub's mix. Cheaper, and better soil texture which brings me to my next point.

6) Coots soil has a much better texture/consistency to it than Subs. Compare the two side by side, Coots soil is much more "root friendly". Anyone who's had experience mixing both soils will know what I'm talking about.



Again, I love Subcool. Haven't seen or heard from the guy in a while though, and I'm curious to know if he's even using the supersoil anymore.

Having used both, Coots wins on all accounts. Its cheaper, more plant friendly, very light in both texture and nutritional content, much more balanced, and can be run No-till or ROLS.

Instead of searching "coots mix" in your research, search "living soil" or "living organic soil" instead. Coots mix has become so standardized in the past few years that it seems that it is just kind of assumed that most people are using it when referring to a living soil.

Click to expand...

Amazing review bro.
Spot on.
Unfortunatly i saw posts that sub died last year.
What that calcium well problem my tap is 400ppm 300mg of what is cal.

2cent said:

Amazing review bro.
Spot on.
Unfortunatly i saw posts that sub died last year.
What that calcium well problem my tap is 400ppm 300mg of what is cal.

Click to expand...

That is so sad, you're right. Just confirmed it. I'm legit way bummed about that shit. Seeing his seeds say "discontinued" on the seed banks is heartbreaking, something I never thought I'd see. May his soul rest in peace.

I obviously didn't know the guy, but without him I likely wouldn't be where I'm at without Sub. Fact is, a lot of us wouldn't be. Sub was one of the first to make a living organic soil such mainstream knowledge as far as I remember. Subs supersoil, while somewhat antiquated these days, was revolutionary when released and allowed many of us newbies to achieve results similar to his. He will be missed.



My well water's problem is not just how calcified it is, but that it is derived from the limestone/rocks in my area. My water literally pH's my soil for me, I haven't used a buffer in a few years now. On top of that, I've had to remove all Calcium inputs from my soil itself. Even when I removed the buffering agents from my soil, my well water resulted in Calcium salt build up in my soil. That Ca salt build up, combined with the Crab Meal and Gypsum was overloading my soil. Even though my pH was balanced, the excess Ca locked out Mg and K to a lesser extent. It was only upon removing the Crab and Gypsum that my problems stopped.

kratos015 said:

That is so sad, you're right. Just confirmed it. I'm legit way bummed about that shit. Seeing his seeds say "discontinued" on the seed banks is heartbreaking, something I never thought I'd see. May his soul rest in peace.

I obviously didn't know the guy, but without him I likely wouldn't be where I'm at without Sub. Fact is, a lot of us wouldn't be. Sub was one of the first to make a living organic soil such mainstream knowledge as far as I remember. Subs supersoil, while somewhat antiquated these days, was revolutionary when released and allowed many of us newbies to achieve results similar to his. He will be missed.



My well water's problem is not just how calcified it is, but that it is derived from the limestone/rocks in my area. My water literally pH's my soil for me, I haven't used a buffer in a few years now. On top of that, I've had to remove all Calcium inputs from my soil itself. Even when I removed the buffering agents from my soil, my well water resulted in Calcium salt build up in my soil. That Ca salt build up, combined with the Crab Meal and Gypsum was overloading my soil. Even though my pH was balanced, the excess Ca locked out Mg and K to a lesser extent. It was only upon removing the Crab and Gypsum that my problems stopped.

Click to expand...

Not sure we'd have that fantastic Frenchy Cannoli thread if it wasn't for Sub. Sure was a loss to the community. He came back to RIU shortly before he passed if I remember correctly

kratos015 said:

My well water's problem is not just how calcified it is, but that it is derived from the limestone/rocks in my area. My water literally pH's my soil for me, I haven't used a buffer in a few years now. On top of that, I've had to remove all Calcium inputs from my soil itself. Even when I removed the buffering agents from my soil, my well water resulted in Calcium salt build up in my soil. That Ca salt build up, combined with the Crab Meal and Gypsum was overloading my soil. Even though my pH was balanced, the excess Ca locked out Mg and K to a lesser extent. It was only upon removing the Crab and Gypsum that my problems stopped.

Click to expand...

This has been on my mind a lot... will be running with well water also, I know the water is ‘hard’ and deal with calcium/mineral build up on bath fixtures etc. Haven’t had my water tested but I’m now trying to determine how much lime and/or gypsum to add to my soil mix (if any any). Best to leave it out, perhaps?

Yesb

kratos015 said:

That is so sad, you're right. Just confirmed it. I'm legit way bummed about that shit. Seeing his seeds say "discontinued" on the seed banks is heartbreaking, something I never thought I'd see. May his soul rest in peace.

I obviously didn't know the guy, but without him I likely wouldn't be where I'm at without Sub. Fact is, a lot of us wouldn't be. Sub was one of the first to make a living organic soil such mainstream knowledge as far as I remember. Subs supersoil, while somewhat antiquated these days, was revolutionary when released and allowed many of us newbies to achieve results similar to his. He will be missed.



My well water's problem is not just how calcified it is, but that it is derived from the limestone/rocks in my area. My water literally pH's my soil for me, I haven't used a buffer in a few years now. On top of that, I've had to remove all Calcium inputs from my soil itself. Even when I removed the buffering agents from my soil, my well water resulted in Calcium salt build up in my soil. That Ca salt build up, combined with the Crab Meal and Gypsum was overloading my soil. Even though my pH was balanced, the excess Ca locked out Mg and K to a lesser extent. It was only upon removing the Crab and Gypsum that my problems stopped.

Click to expand...

my area extracts thru limestone and chalk. Result is 300mg calcium in the tap water then they add fluride snd chrloide and chlorine and chloramine and ammonia lol makes it clean pfftt.. Makes a 400ppm and dry skin

Also

Tap 400ppm add 2.6g calnit ppm 1200
Ro watwr 0ppm add 2.6 cslnit ppm 223

It causes a mad spike in my ppms

That’s what I’m worried about lol my testers will be showing up in the next couple of days, so we’ll see just how ‘hard’ my water is. It would just be minerals, no added chlorine or chemicals, just draws from a natural aquifer. It’s awesome drinking water lol

lakesidegrower said:

This has been on my mind a lot... will be running with well water also, I know the water is ‘hard’ and deal with calcium/mineral build up on bath fixtures etc. Haven’t had my water tested but I’m now trying to determine how much lime and/or gypsum to add to my soil mix (if any any). Best to leave it out, perhaps?

Click to expand...

I would. Remember, just like cooking, we can always add something if we need but can never subtract it once added.

Gypsum and Crab Meal (Down to Earth, not Neptune's Harvest, DtE is powdered and Neptune is chunks) can be top dressed and will be readily available upon watering. You can easily add Calcium into the soil if you're mistaken about the water.

However, if you deal with Ca buildup on fixtures, you'll likely be fine just using your water for Ca. For perspective, I have zero Calcium inputs in my soil. My water is the sole Ca input in my soil, I removed Gypsum and Crab Meal.

As mentioned above, my water even buffers my soil, so I haven't used Dolomite Lime/Oyster Shell Flower in a few years since discovering this. Just because your water is heavily calcified does not mean the calcium is in carbonate form. One must determine if the Calcium in one's water is in carbonate form or not, and thus, if it is capable of buffering your pH or not. Otherwise, you'll have a very alkaline soil (8.0+ pH) because watering with my well water in a limed soil is akin to top dressing with dolomite lime constantly.

There's an easy way to determine if your water acts as a buffer or not, you simply need those General Hydroponics pH drops.

1) Take your well water, put the pH drops in your well water. Color should be green to teal, or 7.0-8.0+ pH.
2) Buy some lemons or limes and squeeze the juice into another cup. Add enough lemon/lime juice into your green/teal colored water until it turns red (for 4.0 or lower pH).
3) Let the solution sit for 24-48 hours.
4) If your solution is still red/yellow in color, your water is not a buffer. If your solution goes back to the same color it was in step 1, your water is a buffer and you need to act accordingly.

Do this test before you use your water in your grow. I had the misfortune of finding this out in the middle of my second grow at this house.

I could not figure out why the exact same soil I used in previous grows was suddenly giving me problems. Every problem you can imagine; phantom deficiencies, burned tips, stunted growth, sickly plants, etc. I'd been pouring 8.0+ pH water into my soil and my soil's pH was all fucked.

Know what finally helped me figure out this issue? I had Calcium build up on the bottoms of my fabric pots. I'd been pulling my hair out trying to figure out the problem, and finally glanced at the bottoms of my pots. I'd been seeing the build up on the bottoms of my pots, but it took me a while to realize that build up was the same Calcium build up on my faucets. I felt so stupid xD

After finishing that grow out, I mixed a new soil. This time, I did not lime/buffer my peat moss. I removed Crab Meal and Gypsum too. Problem solved.

In fact, I did the above test using peat moss. I filled a cup with my well water, and another cup with RO water from those water dispenser machines. I then put peat moss in both cups of water, let soak for 24 hours, then strained the peat moss out of both cups.

Peat soaked in RO water: 4.0 pH, naturally.
Peat soaked in my well water: 6.5-7.0 pH, perfect.

kratos015 said:

I would. Remember, just like cooking, we can always add something if we need but can never subtract it once added.

Gypsum and Crab Meal (Down to Earth, not Neptune's Harvest, DtE is powdered and Neptune is chunks) can be top dressed and will be readily available upon watering. You can easily add Calcium into the soil if you're mistaken about the water.

However, if you deal with Ca buildup on fixtures, you'll likely be fine just using your water for Ca. For perspective, I have zero Calcium inputs in my soil. My water is the sole Ca input in my soil, I removed Gypsum and Crab Meal.

As mentioned above, my water even buffers my soil, so I haven't used Dolomite Lime/Oyster Shell Flower in a few years since discovering this. Just because your water is heavily calcified does not mean the calcium is in carbonate form. One must determine if the Calcium in one's water is in carbonate form or not, and thus, if it is capable of buffering your pH or not. Otherwise, you'll have a very alkaline soil (8.0+ pH) because watering with my well water in a limed soil is akin to top dressing with dolomite lime constantly.

There's an easy way to determine if your water acts as a buffer or not, you simply need those General Hydroponics pH drops.

1) Take your well water, put the pH drops in your well water. Color should be green to teal, or 7.0-8.0+ pH.
2) Buy some lemons or limes and squeeze the juice into another cup. Add enough lemon/lime juice into your green/teal colored water until it turns red (for 4.0 or lower pH).
3) Let the solution sit for 24-48 hours.
4) If your solution is still red/yellow in color, your water is not a buffer. If your solution goes back to the same color it was in step 1, your water is a buffer and you need to act accordingly.

Do this test before you use your water in your grow. I had the misfortune of finding this out in the middle of my second grow at this house.

I could not figure out why the exact same soil I used in previous grows was suddenly giving me problems. Every problem you can imagine; phantom deficiencies, burned tips, stunted growth, sickly plants, etc. I'd been pouring 8.0+ pH water into my soil and my soil's pH was all fucked.

Know what finally helped me figure out this issue? I had Calcium build up on the bottoms of my fabric pots. I'd been pulling my hair out trying to figure out the problem, and finally glanced at the bottoms of my pots. I'd been seeing the build up on the bottoms of my pots, but it took me a while to realize that build up was the same Calcium build up on my faucets. I felt so stupid xD

After finishing that grow out, I mixed a new soil. This time, I did not lime/buffer my peat moss. I removed Crab Meal and Gypsum too. Problem solved.

In fact, I did the above test using peat moss. I filled a cup with my well water, and another cup with RO water from those water dispenser machines. I then put peat moss in both cups of water, let soak for 24 hours, then strained the peat moss out of both cups.

Peat soaked in RO water: 4.0 pH, naturally.
Peat soaked in my well water: 6.5-7.0 pH, perfect.

Click to expand...

Wow. Yeah its carb from limestones.

I have scalrs on the skin taps and before i used bottled eater my kettle used to be white and could sell it on the street corners as morocsn flake.

My hydro system i have to was with pure phos every 3 month as no descale chemical lemon lime or scrapper wil remove the newly formed white bath in the hydro i could remove carbon copys lol.

I dont drink it its awful stuff.

I had problems with salts like
Tsp water ppm 390 add calnit 2.6gram ppm 1200
Bottle water ppm 80 addd 2.6 calnit 233ppm. Perfect

So i guess follow the recipie and get a ro filter as i guess as most usa is controled max 250ppm and most read at 80 with home pureifiers.
Id be bestbto get 1.
As if i drop dolomite and drop crab im missin other macros on crab. And if s problem happens im diffetent to many so hsrd to find a fixer.

So bottled water and get a ro filter.

I might make 1 in reverse so its correct ad ro works reversed to nature. So il do gravity drain

kratos015 said:

I would. Remember, just like cooking, we can always add something if we need but can never subtract it once added.

Gypsum and Crab Meal (Down to Earth, not Neptune's Harvest, DtE is powdered and Neptune is chunks) can be top dressed and will be readily available upon watering. You can easily add Calcium into the soil if you're mistaken about the water.

However, if you deal with Ca buildup on fixtures, you'll likely be fine just using your water for Ca. For perspective, I have zero Calcium inputs in my soil. My water is the sole Ca input in my soil, I removed Gypsum and Crab Meal.

As mentioned above, my water even buffers my soil, so I haven't used Dolomite Lime/Oyster Shell Flower in a few years since discovering this. Just because your water is heavily calcified does not mean the calcium is in carbonate form. One must determine if the Calcium in one's water is in carbonate form or not, and thus, if it is capable of buffering your pH or not. Otherwise, you'll have a very alkaline soil (8.0+ pH) because watering with my well water in a limed soil is akin to top dressing with dolomite lime constantly.

There's an easy way to determine if your water acts as a buffer or not, you simply need those General Hydroponics pH drops.

1) Take your well water, put the pH drops in your well water. Color should be green to teal, or 7.0-8.0+ pH.
2) Buy some lemons or limes and squeeze the juice into another cup. Add enough lemon/lime juice into your green/teal colored water until it turns red (for 4.0 or lower pH).
3) Let the solution sit for 24-48 hours.
4) If your solution is still red/yellow in color, your water is not a buffer. If your solution goes back to the same color it was in step 1, your water is a buffer and you need to act accordingly.

Do this test before you use your water in your grow. I had the misfortune of finding this out in the middle of my second grow at this house.

I could not figure out why the exact same soil I used in previous grows was suddenly giving me problems. Every problem you can imagine; phantom deficiencies, burned tips, stunted growth, sickly plants, etc. I'd been pouring 8.0+ pH water into my soil and my soil's pH was all fucked.

Know what finally helped me figure out this issue? I had Calcium build up on the bottoms of my fabric pots. I'd been pulling my hair out trying to figure out the problem, and finally glanced at the bottoms of my pots. I'd been seeing the build up on the bottoms of my pots, but it took me a while to realize that build up was the same Calcium build up on my faucets. I felt so stupid xD

After finishing that grow out, I mixed a new soil. This time, I did not lime/buffer my peat moss. I removed Crab Meal and Gypsum too. Problem solved.

In fact, I did the above test using peat moss. I filled a cup with my well water, and another cup with RO water from those water dispenser machines. I then put peat moss in both cups of water, let soak for 24 hours, then strained the peat moss out of both cups.

Peat soaked in RO water: 4.0 pH, naturally.
Peat soaked in my well water: 6.5-7.0 pH, perfect.

Click to expand...

This is amazing insight - thanks for taking the time to explain - definitely bookmarked, going to try both of the tests you recommended before building my soil.

Unfortunately no Hydro drops... I'm assuming I can use my pH meter to test as well
I was also relying on gypsum and/or lime as part of my 4 cups of rock dust per cu-ft of soil... I may not have enough other rock dust on the way to replace it lol I'm presuming I would still be wanting to use 4 cups of rock dusts even if I am not including gypsum and lime?

lakesidegrower said:

This is amazing insight - thanks for taking the time to explain - definitely bookmarked, going to try both of the tests you recommended before building my soil.

Unfortunately no Hydro drops... I'm assuming I can use my pH meter to test as well
I was also relying on gypsum and/or lime as part of my 4 cups of rock dust per cu-ft of soil... I may not have enough other rock dust on the way to replace it lol I'm presuming I would still be wanting to use 4 cups of rock dusts even if I am not including gypsum and lime?

Click to expand...

Correct, 4 cups. I've used basalt exclusively for my mineral input for the past 4 years or so now, Coots' recommendation. BuildASoil sells the stuff at a pretty reasonable price, I used them when I grabbed my basalt for this most recent soil I made.

pH meter should work just fine, I just liked the drops because I could physically see/witness the changes over time. But a meter should do just fine too!

kratos015 said:

Correct, 4 cups. I've used basalt exclusively for my mineral input for the past 4 years or so now, Coots' recommendation. BuildASoil sells the stuff at a pretty reasonable price, I used them when I grabbed my basalt for this most recent soil I made.

pH meter should work just fine, I just liked the drops because I could physically see/witness the changes over time. But a meter should do just fine too!

Click to expand...

Ok. It’s official, I need to source more mineral. I have 2kg of galacial on its way, but I need to make up 4 cu-ft so need 12 cups total minerals. That 2kg tub will give me what.. 5 cups at best? I need to order everything which is brutal, a joy of living in a small town lol

lakesidegrower said:

Ok. It’s official, I need to source more mineral. I have 2kg of galacial on its way, but I need to make up 4 cu-ft so need 12 cups total minerals. That 2kg tub will give me what.. 5 cups at best? I need to order everything which is brutal, a joy of living in a small town lol

Click to expand...

I share your struggle man. 2kg is ~5lb I believe? Live outside of the states if you're using metric measurements I'm guessing? Does BAS charge too much for shipping out of country?

I paid $30 for a 16lb (6-7kg I believe?) of Basalt, came with free shipping even.

I'm in a small town too, why I had to compensate for having mediocre compost. I used to work at a grocery store, so I had access to tons of scraps from the produce department at the time. Now, I have next to nothing seeing as I live in the desert. Mesquite grows naturally here, but I don't have nearly enough to produce sufficient compost for my grows sadly.

Fortunately, minerals last much longer than amendments. My maintenance top dresses don't include minerals in them, I top dress with more basalt every 1-2 years. So, even if it does cost you a bit extra, it isn't a constant expense at least.

Yea that’s a good point, I could probably find something on Amazon that will ship free if I look hard enough. The shipping to Canada from BAS is pretty steep.

Im pretty fortunate to live in a pretty bio diverse area but short growing seasons.
I’ve just made my first batch of bokashi, I’m pumped to get my bucket going - it would be a perfect solution for access to killer composite in your climate.

lakesidegrower said:

Yea that’s a good point, I could probably find something on Amazon that will ship free if I look hard enough. The shipping to Canada from BAS is pretty steep.

Im pretty fortunate to live in a pretty bio diverse area but short growing seasons.
I’ve just made my first batch of bokashi, I’m pumped to get my bucket going - it would be a perfect solution for access to killer composite in your climate.

Click to expand...

Im over the pond. They do dame meadurements as canada? Kgs etc lol cool.

Where i am shippinhs 45dollar a box lol. And 4 week waits.

Bokashi made it me self it costs £35 for 4kg here
Crab meal not allowed that either coz mihht have meat on it. Yet ya can feed it ya chickens and throw meat in landfills. And ofc wrre allowed to use synthetic pgrs and chemicals. Wrre allowrd to spray gyphosphates and others lol.
So i grind the crab and oyster as its clean anyway.
Kelp meal i have to make from fresh dryed kelp.
Alfalfa i buy animal pellets
Basalt is in bnq and online landscaping and ebay.
It had many names.
Pumice for bbqs or foot scrubbers in bulk
Green sand for lizzards helps with hard water.
Haha fun games.

Mite sell my spares coz workin out 31years of growing lol bulk amendments.. Throw some at affordable prices jus to get me money back. Help some smaller growers here that can't buy bulk otherwise it gona sit there bloody years.
Feed it me worm bins

lakesidegrower said:

Ok. It’s official, I need to source more mineral. I have 2kg of galacial on its way, but I need to make up 4 cu-ft so need 12 cups total minerals. That 2kg tub will give me what.. 5 cups at best? I need to order everything which is brutal, a joy of living in a small town lol

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My 2kg tub of G rock dust was exactly 8 cups.

Perfect / thanks for the info, I’ve been trying to figure it out lol

Don’t know how I just barely am seeing this now, man this is some great info and very much right up my alley, I used subs mix and slight variations for years, Subcool definitely inspired me to try organic soil building for myself, then years later I did a run of coots style living soil with a tga tester pack mind you and was completely blown away by both the flavor and potency

Then I had multiple more important life priorities come up and I moved and I couldn’t grow for years until now I’m just getting back into it, so I made a variant of subs mix in November, as its very ingrained in my memory and I had to repeat research on no till techniques plus living soil in general and I will be doing a living soil mix next year coots style

RIP Subcool
I’ll be a weednerd for life
But coots mix/living soil/no-till is killer !
Respect to all us organic soil builders !