Coco Growers Unite!

jberry

Well-Known Member
well h&g isnt exactly fair enough to let its customers know what entirely is in their products but from the results ive seen i would say they are somewhat good... they are designed for low ppm (100 or less) or RO water, but i found that it works fine with tap water unless your water is really really bad.

canna at least tells you what is in their base nutes and also has a very clean product that works well as long as you add in some micros and 200 ppm's of cal/mag... but if you dont and its not available in your tap water then you will get deficiencies using canna.
 

Sealion

Active Member
Any suggestions on growing huge plants in coco? What would be the best method? I was thinking about running a drip system with 15 gallon containers.. Sound about right?

What nutrients would give the best results for this type of setup? I'm aiming to growing monster plants, probably 1-2 per 1000w. Going for great yield bongsmilie
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
Any suggestions on growing huge plants in coco? What would be the best method? I was thinking about running a drip system with 15 gallon containers.. Sound about right?

What nutrients would give the best results for this type of setup? I'm aiming to growing monster plants, probably 1-2 per 1000w. Going for great yield bongsmilie
sounds good but i would "pot up" a few different times.... dont start in those 15 gal.:leaf:
 

bender420

Well-Known Member
Thank you to everyone who have been continously researching and sharing their knowledge.

jberry has made a tremendous difference in my understanding of coco. even though i am able to grow awesome meds for myself in coco, i feel their is a lot more to learn.

THANK YOU jberry for all your help brother. Good karma you way man.
 

dingbang

Active Member
well h&g isnt exactly fair enough to let its customers know what entirely is in their products but from the results ive seen i would say they are somewhat good... they are designed for low ppm (100 or less) or RO water, but i found that it works fine with tap water unless your water is really really bad.

canna at least tells you what is in their base nutes and also has a very clean product that works well as long as you add in some micros and 200 ppm's of cal/mag... but if you dont and its not available in your tap water then you will get deficiencies using canna.
Thanks for the quick response jberry. I will be using dechlorinated tap water so I think I will try the Canna A&B. There are a lot of other people using it and I will be able to use their experiences as a reference point for my grow. The first time I experimented with coco I used Blue Mountain Organics and my results were less than desirable. I think it may have been a lock out due to high levels of K like you mentioned. I will continue to run my indoor soil SOG so I want my coco grow to be as simple as possible and not be too much of a burden. I plan on hand watering once a day in 8" nursery pots and not cutting my coco with perlite. There will be four plants will be under one 150w CMH with a 2 week veg time. Does this sound plausible?
 

bender420

Well-Known Member
Here are some coco grow shots, they are in botanicare coco.

Casey Jones Bloom Day 39




OG Bloom Day 39



OG Bloom Day 41
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
thanks bender, glad its helping someone...

ding, if you use Canna i would definitely consider using a micro product of some sort and dont be surprised if you need a little cal mag either. Your tap definitely has calcium and mag and probably iron, but a lot of it wont be absorbed by your plant.
Canna's quality is high BUT it really lacks micronutients for some unknown reason.
 

dingbang

Active Member
Here are some coco grow shots, they are in botanicare coco.

Casey Jones Bloom Day 39
Very nice bender. Photo's like this make me very motivated to start a proper coco grow.

thanks bender, glad its helping someone...

ding, if you use Canna i would definitely consider using a micro product of some sort and dont be surprised if you need a little cal mag either. Your tap definitely has calcium and mag and probably iron, but a lot of it wont be absorbed by your plant.
Canna's quality is high BUT it really lacks micronutients for some unknown reason.
What about supplying micros through compost tea? I already brew tea for my indoor and outdoor grows and it only consists of EWC, compost and soluble seaweed extract. I wish there was a product that was a complete two part program, I feel like a marketing sucker for having so many nutrient bottles and amendments. :roll:
 

Solcyn26

Well-Known Member
Any suggestions on growing huge plants in coco? What would be the best method? I was thinking about running a drip system with 15 gallon containers.. Sound about right?

What nutrients would give the best results for this type of setup? I'm aiming to growing monster plants, probably 1-2 per 1000w. Going for great yield bongsmilie
when growing trees i would let it veg for a min of 3-4 weeks and im not sure about your set up but the biggest trees ive seen grown indoors used vertical lighting bcause of the sheer hieght of the plant..google 46oz ak-47 by heath robinson...great tree grow
 

Sealion

Active Member
Hmm so i was reading you can't recirculate canna nutes? Why's this? Are there any coco nutes you can recirculate? I'm trying to run a drip system.
 

Sealion

Active Member
when growing trees i would let it veg for a min of 3-4 weeks and im not sure about your set up but the biggest trees ive seen grown indoors used vertical lighting bcause of the sheer hieght of the plant..google 46oz ak-47 by heath robinson...great tree grow
Definately already planning on side lighting
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
I have noticed on forums that many people speak of using Zyme (e.g. Cannazyme, Sensizyme) products for breaking down the dead root material. This is an area of concern due to the fact that while fungal cellulose enzymes are definitely effective at breaking down cellulose (after all, this is what they do in nature) the products sold through the hydro industry possibly/probably are inert. I.e. Devoid of enzymes.​
There are serious question marks over the shelf life of liquid enzyme products. That’s not to say that enzymes are a bad thing -without a doubt they have a place in hydroponics/agriculture and can be potentially beneficial to plant health. However, as with friendly bacteria, the sale of these products through the “hydro” industry is, often, greatly over simplified (talked up and hyped). That is, the enzymes are contained in a liquid state and because of this they may or may not be present/active when they are purchased off the shelf. Other than this, enzymes aren’t so dissimilar to bacteria in that they need a complimentary environment in which to remain stable and work. However, by their very nature enzymes are unstable and herein lies the problem. I.e. If I make a liquid concentrate and then put it on a shelf for months at a time will there be enzymes present or not when that product is purchased? Probably not....​
One producer who sells a Zyme product claims they have tested their competitors Zyme formulas and found that they were (to quote) “junk”. They go onto say, “Enzymes have a shelf life. They can expire in their bottles.” Other than this they claim to have purchased five different companies formulas (from several locations), including their own, and after testing their competitors’ products they were found to be “inert, meaning there was no biological activity left in them.” Of course, their formula, when tested, came through with flying colours.​
Back to reality and the science – let’s avoid the scam factor that is too often proliferated by a few to so many.​

So, what is a reliable/effective means of recycling the media?​

Trichoderma Harzianum (T.harzianum)
A lot of research has been done with a mould called Trichoderma harzianum with very positive findings. Trichoderma harzianum is a friendly mould that colonises the rhizosphere and competes with other organisms.​
Trichoderma is parasitic to other moulds such as pythium, fusarium and phytopthora. That is, Trichoderma protects the plants from these organisms, all of which are capable of destroying your crop.​
Trichoderma enhances plant growth due to its ability to produce beneficial enzyme complexes. Trichoderma can also survive for long periods in a host, and needs only minimal carbon levels to ensure its subsistence. Trichoderma also stimulates root growth while breaking down cellulose (dead root matter etc) and therefore is an extremely effective and reliable way to treat media for reuse.​


Coco substrate, more so than any other hydroponic medium, provides an ideal environment for friendly moulds and friendly bacteria.​
To recycle the media effectively, remove as much dead root matter as you can by first cleaning, washing and sieving the media and then apply a treatment of T.harzianum to the coco substrate. Maintain its use for several weeks (better yet – throughout the entire crop cycle) and watch your plants grow.​
Which brings us to our next point – the use of ‘friendlies’ in coco substrate.​

Understanding Friendly Bacteria
This is an area which is largely misunderstood by many indoor growers so I thought I’d expand on the science of friendly bacteria in hydroponics.​
Friendly bacteria protect the plant from water born pathogens such as pythium and fusarium. Other than this, they help in nutrient uptake and produce plant growth promoting substances. They can also protect plant surfaces from attacks by pathogenic microbes through direct competitive effects and production of anti pathogenic compounds.​
For these reasons, the use of friendly bacteria in hydroponic growing systems has advantages over sterilisation (i.e. the use of monochloramine or hydrogen peroxide etc).​

The Science of Friendly Bacteria
In nature non-harmful or beneficial organisms naturally combat harmful pathogens such as pythium and fusarium. Generally speaking non-harmful bacteria numbers explode at a faster rate than harmful bio organisms. As the non harmful bacteria numbers explode they form biomass around the rhizosphere of the plant. This biomass prevents harmful organisms entering the rhizosphere of the plant.​
In addition to this, some bacteria are beneficial to plant growth. These bacteria are commonly known as plant growth stimulating bacteria (PGSB).​
In nature, friendly bacteria (or friendly moulds) are naturally found in environments that are able to support them (bio-diverse environments). A bio-diverse environment ensures that the microorganisms survive and thrive. On the other hand, if the environment is lacking and is not able to support them, the bacteria will die out very quickly.

  • Introducing the right bacteria into the growing system (and)
  • Ensuring there is a conducive environment to sustain and increase ‘biomass’ (bacteria numbers)
Friendly Bacteria Products


Liquid Vs Dry Friendly Bacteria Products – which are better?
Liquids
Let’s say I isolated some friendly bacteria – say a couple of types of bacillus – and they were isolated from yogurt or soap by products. Let’s say I threw my bacillus in a bottle of fluid with some food (sugar and carbons). Then I put the bottle on a shelf for a month or two (or three or five). My bacillus might survive until their food ran out; then again something else might happen to them, such as they might survive in lower temperatures but die out very quickly at higher temperatures or they may survive in one pH but die out (or reduce in numbers) at another pH. There are just too many variables to consider and there are no guarantees that you are getting what you have paid for in the case of many of the “hydro” industries liquid friendly bacterial products.​
Author’s note: There have been breakthroughs in research and at least one liquid product that is sold through the agricultural sector has stabilised bacteria contained within the fluid.

Dry Bacteria Products
These products, for the most part, are far more reliable than most of the liquid products (sold through the “hydro” retail industry) due to the ability for bacterial spores to survive long term in a dry, suspended state (bacillus spores, for instance, can survive for approximately 2 years if stored at room temperature – 20 - 250 C). Effectively the spores are attached to either a sugar or a carbon base (or both) where they remain suspended until they come into contact with water (i.e. placed in the nutrient tank). The shelf life of these products is, therefore, far more reliable than that of their liquid equivalents. These products are best stored in an air tight bag in the fridge.​

Sustaining ‘Biomass’ (Bacteria numbers)
The food source for friendly bacteria is sugars and carbons. Create an environment that is rich in these components and you will create a dynamic environment for friendly bacteria.​

Fulvic Acid
Where friendly bacteria are concerned humates (e.g. humic acid and fulvic acid) are an extremely effective food source. Humates are carbons – elements of ancient compost that formed over millions of years through the interaction of organic material and microbial action – and, therefore, their presence (along with other factors) in the growing system will ensure a rich environment in which friendly bacteria numbers will explode.​
Fulvic acid is the most important humate bio-extract where hydroponics is concerned. It is water soluble and readily available for plant uptake.​
Other than creating a dynamic environment for friendly bacteria, fulvic acid aids greatly in nutrient uptake and translocation within the plant. For this reason it should always be used in conjunction with a balanced nutritional program.​

Fulvic Acid Benefits:

  • Enhances cell growth
  • Increases nutrient uptake
  • Increases nutrient transportation
  • Increases silica absorption
  • Stimulates plant immune system
  • Creates a dynamic environment for friendly bacteria
Humic Acid
Humic acid is less suitable for hydroponic systems. However, humic acid is suitable for soil growing and its use in soils will prove beneficial for rhizosphere microbial interaction and nutrient uptake.

Sugars
Other than humates (i.e. carbons) sugars are also the food source for friendly bacteria. Because of this, products containing molasses (e.g. some organic stimulants) and other sugars can be beneficial in the growing system.​

Cautions when using Friendly Bacteria
If you are adding friendlies to chlorinated water supplies (i.e. mains water), there is every chance (depending on the level of chlorine) that the chlorine is killing a good many of the beneficial microorganisms. Ideally you will have a secondary holding tank where you can leave your tap water exposed to air for 24 hours prior to it going into your system. This will ensure the water is chlorine free (the chlorine dissipates) by the time you introduce the friendlies.​
On this note, sterilising agents (e.g. monochloramine or hydrogen peroxide) should never be used in conjunction with friendly bacteria.​

Beneficial Microbes for Hydroponics
Just some of the beneficial microbes for hydroponics are:​
Trichoderma harzianum, Bacillus Subtillus, Pseudomonas and Azopirillum.​
You can possibly buy dry friendly bacteria products through your local agricultural supply store or through garden centres. Where possible, try to purchase in bulk to save money. In some cases you may even be able to purchase manufacture direct.​
Grow well....​
 

Solcyn26

Well-Known Member
awesome info dude...i ahvent started using molasses yet but i have it ive just heard such conflicting info but ur making alot of sense..will itroduce molasses next watering..i have a question i have a bottle of prozyme from humbolt along with there whole line of oneness and ginormous any body have any exp with these products...ive had the prozyme for like 2 months now im worried all my lil buggers in there are dead
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
it doesnt have to be molasses, in fact i dont use molasses, i find it a pain to work with and imo effects the taste in a negative way when you use too much... but if you do use it, i personally would stay on the low end of the recommended dose... i know a lot of people wont agree and love the stuff but pretty much any sugar or product containing sugar will work from Humboldt's Hydro Honey to raw brown sugar cane... keep your rez in the dark if you are storing the nutes to prevent algae... the more light and sugar your rez sees, the more of a algae problem you will get.
 

smokingrubber

Well-Known Member
Okay, Coco it is! Thanks for the info. I'm starting a new cycle next week and I'm going with Coco Cior instead of Hydroton. I'm hoping it's just as simple to use, with better results. +rep
 
has anyone got experience with these products:

www.u-gro.info

i started using this medium and i was just wondering how often should i water and what ph would be the best. during veg that is. currently i'm using 5.8 water.

cheers!
 

statik

Well-Known Member
Hey, I am hoping someone in this thread can help me.

I am using Atami B'Cuzz Coco mixed with about 1/3'rd perlite. I have tested the pH of the coco and it's at about 7. Now I know the pH in coco should be treated like hydro basically wanting a pH of around 5.8 or so. So I started flushing to lower the pH (with 5.5 r/o water) and the pH only got higher!?!? I have tried testing the run off, AND packing the coco in a cup and making almost a mud patty with some r/o water...then setting my pH pen into that. No difference in readings.

I dumped 12 gallons of 5.5 water through five 5"x5" square pots...and got the pH to lower by .3?! I even used some Flora Kleen on the last 5 gallons to make sure it wasnt some kind of salt holding on in the medium. 12 gallons across those 5 pots...thats like..8 times the amount of water volume as there is medium!!!

I am soooo confused as to why the pH went to 7.8...no reason for it. I haven't even given these plants nutes yet. I transplanted them (from the cloner) and watered. Thats when I realized there was something off.

So uhm...HELP please?!
 
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