Club T5

The best bulb to get 660nm from in my opinion is the ZooMed FloraSun (only $


So Im a little new to the colored bulb thng. Im currently running a 4 bulb 2700k/6500k flower/veg cab. I just harvested around an ounce and a half from 2X white widowXbig bud. Would the above mentioned ZooMed FloraSun be a good choice to mix my 2700/6500k bulbs in flower?

Grab a J, this one is alittle long also.

Here's a few SPD's and pics to show what I meant.

This panel on the left is my current veg panel, it replaced the top panel on the right... They are exactly the same except the top right panel has 2 6500k's in the 1/4 slots where the left (1st) panel is using ZooMed FloraSuns in the 1/4 slots... Its hard to tell next to the blue bulbs but they are quite pink, despite containing blue and green just like the 6500k's, they have 630-660nm red instead of 610, so they appear rosy/pink vs pure white.

The 2nd bulb down in both panels (left and top right) are both ReefWaves @420nm, and the 3rd down are BlueWave (actinic 430-450nm) only $8 for any of these bulbs
Here's a better pic to show the rosy glow of the FloraSuns.


My current Flowering Panel.

very bottom and 4th down are both flora suns. Same bulb as in my current Veg panel.

Here are some graphs to show what the plants "see" .. PAR.


Remember, lights that arent designed for growing are designed for people, and we see green best so they'll all be heavy green, and we dont "need" true red so they wont pay the extra cost of the rarer phosphors that emit above 610nm.


When reading the peaks on these graphs, The highest peak of a color spike will relate to a specific color or nanometer wavelength, whichever spike is highest is where the most photonic energy is being expended, the wider a peak is the more strength that color will have in the overall hue. A shorter spike that is wide may have more overall output than a tall narrow spike. (theres alot of other factors involved tho)

here's an example of a 5band phosphor (the spike at 400 is due to the mercury in the bulb). This is more of a specialty bulb, and will have a higher CRI meaning it will render colors more correctly to the human eye. CRI and Kelvin temps mean relatively little in the horticulture world. Notice here the red is still only at 610nm, compare this to the PAR absorbtion spectrum above.
View attachment 2065047


Here are some general SPD's from different bulbs and Kelvin temps, granted the graphs will look different (some detailed others very general) but compare the peaks (points of highest intensity) to the PAR spectrum and you'll see that their light is far from optimal. Most are cheap tri-band phosphors (3 main spikes, other smaller spikes are caused by the mercury) Agian, they will all work but would be like SuperSize me, they'll live but wont thrive, where a good spectrum would be like a healthy diet for us

View attachment 20650792700k. 3000k.
3000k. 4100k.
5500k. 6500k.


HPS
Eye Hortilux HPS (notice how Hortilux wants you to think that green and yellow are used alot more than they really are by showing that wack ass PAR curve in the background, cuz HPS is nothing but yellow/green.)
Solarmax HPS

So you can see how, given the fact that some can grow from seed using only HPS, it is possible with less than optimal light. But when you can dial in your spectrum you can get the tight nugs and short node distances every grower wants. There are LOTS of complaints online about T5's producing light and airy buds, and little penetration... all due to improper spectrum in flowering. With T5's you want to keep them as close as possible to the tops to really get the most out of the available light since they wont burn your foliage. you wont be able to grow monster trees with only 8 bulbs, but if you keep the bulbs close to the tops, you'll get good penetration down to 18"-24", which is comparable to HID since you gotta keep them at least X distance AWAY from your tops anyway.Here are some SPD's for good quality bulbs that I would recommend... These wont match exactly to the PAR spectrum, but you can get pretty damn close by combining bulbs in specific combos.
View attachment 2065141View attachment 2065142ZooMed FloraSun (almost the same as the PlantGrow, but cheaper)
AquaMedic Plant Grow. OsramFlora77, excellent bulb (almost perfect) but EU only
View attachment 2065146AquaticLife Roseate 650nm. View attachment 2065147CoralLife Colormax
View attachment 2065148
UVL RedSun/RedLife. Almost pure Red, the smaller spikes are "mercury spikes" and are inherent to Fluoros. A panel with all red suns would grow reallly fast but would be stretchy and spindly

View attachment 2065143
Pure Actinic (blue), Almost any actinic bulb will look like this so cheaper is better, will promote stockier/bushier plants (although slightly slower)


Wavepoint bulbs, I dont recommend the triband bulbs since they give only 610 (they are developing the UltraWave which will look like a FloraSun w 660nm) The BlueWave,ReefWave and CoralWave all kick ass, only $8 at petmountain.com Aquariumguys.com has florasuns for $8. good luck finding Red Suns

...damn, where'd the last 3hrs go?

1 word: EPIC!

Beta420 said:

1 word: EPIC!

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lol thanks. whew! my ass hurts and fingers are all stiffly (not directly related!!!!) from sitting for X hours!. I would graciously accept Rep from anyone who had the patience to read through all that! I just hope a few can learn from it for real tho

Thanks great info.

Awsome...learning experience Been looking at different pet sites for hours now...Very good job, thanks for all your help.

pkyabigtime said:

very well said. some t-5s put out around 95 lumen/watt which is much higher than even an HID

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Pykabigtime: I think the important thing is that you pick the right frequency bulb rated in K's. I use 5,000 to 6,000 K blue lamps for vegging and change to 2700 to 2800 K reds for flowering and they've worked great with out generating a lot of heat. You might want to talk it over with the folks at your local hydro store. I hope that helps. HSA

posting so i can find this thread later and read all 29 pages.

HSA said:

Pykabigtime: I think the important thing is that you pick the right frequency bulb rated in K's. I use 5,000 to 6,000 K blue lamps for vegging and change to 2700 to 2800 K reds for flowering and they've worked great with out generating a lot of heat. You might want to talk it over with the folks at your local hydro store. I hope that helps. HSA

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check post #282
Kelvin temperatures are a measurement used to describe a lights hue as seen by the human eye. Useless for growing, or a very basic guide at most. Kelvin is related to the actual color appearance of a black body radiator (generally tungsten) which is heated to that actual temperature Kelvin. a block of Tungsten metal heated to 3000k will glow a deep orange color, heated over twice as hot to 6500k and it will glow a brighter blue color. Fluoros use different mercury/phosphor blends and electrically excited gasses to create different colors which are only associated with a general kelvin "color" different temp of bulbs can have drastically different light outputs. So you would think a 10000k bulb would be reeeaally blue, but it can actually have more red than a 6500k. Its all about the proportions and types of the same generic commercial phosphors, again of the cheap grow/bloom bulbs that are advertized with a kelvin color, almost NONE have any useable Red and ALL contain Green which is used to a small degree like a catalyst to allow other wavelengths to be used by chlorophyll, but for the most part is a waste of watts/energy. The plants foliage appears green cuz the green is mostly reflected (or is reflected the most vs other "colors")

Again, Im not saying that you havent or cant grow awesome buds with the generic kelvin rated bulbs, there are lots of factors involved that can contribute to a bunker crop. And they will still provide photonic energy. But if you're shopping for bulbs, do a little research and you should choose to pass up on the generic orange bloom bulbs (6500k's are decent for veg since they are blue heavy and blue is primo in veg) For flowering tho, if you really want to max out the capabilities w/ the T5's, you gotta get some specialty bulbs with true red 630-660nm.

And I personally wouldnt recommend discussing ANYTHING with the local hydro shop idiot, they want your money and they want your money. thats it. IMHO, come ask around here and get a variety of input and make your own decisions, based on your own knowedge of the subject, If you're not too knowledgeable about something, what better way to learn about your hobby than learning about your hobby! THEN go to the hydro shop lol

So 3000k is junk & you would be bettter off with flora suns & 6500k to flower with right?

Just bought my Sunblaze T5 4ft 4 bulb. just waiting on seeds then it will be in full use

Indicanna Jones said:

So 3000k is junk & you would be bettter off with flora suns & 6500k to flower with right?

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absolutely, that wont be ideal, but the 6500k's will give plenty of blue and the FloraSuns will give a good amt of red. Eventually when you can get your hands on a RedSun or two they will raise the proportion of red nicely since the FloraSuns also have blue, And Coral Waves give are a good source of Blue AND Infrared that is used to help the triggering response in photoperiod strains. But short answer is YES! I personally think the blooms are junk and a waste energy vs 6500k's.

I've been doing s lot ofserchingg around for different prices on the bulbs I can buy most of them close at a pet store

Bluewave - Reefwave , Coralwave , and I believe redsun

But the place also has a bulb called red wave but I couldn't find a spd for it are these any good or do you have any information on

Also I'm getting a 12 bulb fixture would it be worth it to add 2x reptisun 5.0/1.0 bulbs on the end for flower if so which one would be safer I'm thinking 2x 5.0s would be safer then 2x 10.0s

pedro420 said:

I've been doing s lot ofserchingg around for different prices on the bulbs I can buy most of them close at a pet store

Bluewave - Reefwave , Coralwave , and I believe redsun

But the place also has a bulb called red wave but I couldn't find a spd for it are these any good or do you have any information on

Also I'm getting a 12 bulb fixture would it be worth it to add 2x reptisun 5.0/1.0 bulbs on the end for flower if so which one would be safer I'm thinking 2x 5.0s would be safer then 2x 10.0s

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The RedWave is also sold as the ColorWave (its SPD is listed with the others in that really long post) I have one, it looks nice and pink like the other plant grow bulbs but its just a cheap tri-band bulb with a little less blue and more 610nm orange than the average commercial tube which gives it the pinkish hue. But its the same price as a FloraSun and doesnt provide any true red... so I have mine stored away (bought it before I really knew the subtleties of the growing spectrum)

For flowering, I used a Reptisun 10.0 26w CFL, for the full light cycle at about 9" away... I had really crispy leaves toward the end of flowering, but I had been starving her of nitrogen for awhile sooo I have no idea if the UVb was to blame. But Im a believer in the power of UVb for increasing trich production. I cant advise too much tho cuz Im still learning about it.

Phaeton may know abit more about it than me, but I like the UVb idea since its in sunlight and resin is just natural sunblock.

I would also call if you werent, call the store just to double check and make sure they're 54w T5HO... Ive called around and its hard to find any locally, in a pretty big city. What store if ya dont mind me asking? Im sure Aquariums are abit more popular in florida than in the desert here tho lol. Petco/PetSmart here suck. Ive ordered all mind thru PetMountain.com and Aquariumguys.com I have RedSuns on back order with HelloLights. You have RedSuns locally? Where?

a 12 bulb would rock out in flower Im gonna have an 8bulb with two 4bulbs on either side for down-angled sidelighting 16 total, plus 4 (or maybe 8 ) for veg

I ment flora suns not red suns
I was just looking at petmountin but the store locally is petco they have
Reefwave- Bluewave - Coralwave - florasun -
But they are all around 20$ but I'm still lookin I like the petmountain prices tho

There are a bunch of nice restraunts around here and they have big tanks with coral and plants and exotic fish it's realy nice I want to put a shark tank in my wall with coral and plants haha build a tank around my kitchen like 360 with a doorway in and out

pedro420 said:

I ment flora suns not red suns
I was just looking at petmountin but the store locally is petco they have
Reefwave- Bluewave - Coralwave - florasun -
But they are all around 20$ but I'm still lookin I like the petmountain prices tho

There are a bunch of nice restraunts around here and they have big tanks with coral and plants and exotic fish it's realy nice I want to put a shark tank in my wall with coral and plants haha build a tank around my kitchen like 360 with a doorway in and out

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PAR T5s and shark tanks?? Sounds like a pretty badass aquaponics setup.

Take care to avoid +700nm spectrum in veg and similar blue dominant bulbs in flower.

Ya if I ever get to build my own house my room is going to be built in the middle of a shark tank

Edit
Looks like my tank will have to wait I was just pricing bulbs
3x reef wave + 3 x coral wave + 3 x blue wave =110$
Gotta price flora suns and try to find red suns

My veg choice
Reef wave x3
Blue wave x3
Flora sun x2

My flower choice
Flora sun x4
Red sun x3
Coral wave x3
2x undecided

If I can not find the red sun/red life what would be a good substitute also any outher good bulbs to fill in a 2x choice for my flower was thinking maby anouther flora sun and anouther coral wave but might be to much blue for flower

pedro420 said:

Ya if I ever get to build my own house my room is going to be built in the middle of a shark tank

Edit
Looks like my tank will have to wait I was just pricing bulbs
3x reef wave + 3 x coral wave + 3 x blue wave =110$
Gotta price flora suns and try to find red suns

My veg choice
Reef wave x3
Blue wave x3
Flora sun x2

My flower choice
Flora sun x4
Red sun x3
Coral wave x3
2x undecided

If I can not find the red sun/red life what would be a good substitute also any outher good bulbs to fill in a 2x choice for my flower was thinking maby anouther flora sun and anouther coral wave but might be to much blue for flower

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Seriously, researching T5's I cruised thru some Coral/Reef forums and kinda got the bug, but damn I barely have time to really take care of my plants as is, no way could I keep up with corals too... Ciclids in a freshwater tank would be easier, but still...


I dont want to say you'd be too blue heavy with only two out of 8 being flora suns to provide any green (it shouldnt be completely avoided all together) and red. Id be curious to see how they responded to so much blue.
For flowering, If thats a 12 bulb array that sounds pretty good, maybe lose one CoralWave and add in some Roseates or another FloraSun. Red Suns are very unique, theyre the only bulb Ive ever seen that is pure Red over 610 (there are a few that are red only but at the common commercial 610nm) Ive been trying to get some replacements for the two that lasted under a week, been trying since december! If you cant find RedSun's I'd say the AquaticLife Roseate's would be an alternative to more FloraSuns. FloraSuns would be fine, but Roseates are very similar although slightly different so they could fill in certain wavelengths that might be otherwise missing. They're only like 11$ at aquariumguys.

And 9 bulbs for 110$ is fuckin awesome dude, I have a backorder for only 4 RedSuns and thats 91$ and thats the lowest price I can find anywhere. Most places charge a few bucks more for additional packaging for the tubes (you'll be glad, they dont survive fedex or UPS very well if they skimp on packaging) it usually helps to buy a few at a time.

..... you said a 12 bulb Flower panel right? 3 CWs may not be too bad then.

pedro420 said:

My veg choice
Reef wave x3
Blue wave x3
Flora sun x2

My flower choice
Flora sun x4
Red sun x3
Coral wave x3
2x undecided

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Undercover Cop said:

And 9 bulbs for 110$ is fuckin awesome dude, I have a backorder for only 4 RedSuns and thats 91$ and thats the lowest price I can find anywhere. Most places charge a few bucks more for additional packaging for the tubes (you'll be glad, they dont survive fedex or UPS very well if they skimp on packaging) it usually helps to buy a few at a time.

..... you said a 12 bulb Flower panel right? 3 CWs may not be too bad then.

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Okay, I appologize - I assumed a smaller 4 to 6 bulb fixture.

$110 is a sweet deal. If you're still looking for two more bulbs, shoot for redsuns. They'll produce the best ROI in a flowering panel... at least until WavePoint starts producing the UltraGrowth Wave. Or if you're in the UK, the OsramFlora.

PetFlora tried a relatively dense concentration of CoralWave bulbs - was it 1:4? Perhaps he will chime in with his thoughts.