Christianity has been debunked once and for all

email468 · May 12, 2008

Yondaime said:
Sure, there are alot of things about religion that I am fed up about. Like terrorists who think that killing you will make them martyrs because you don't accept their idea of God. But come on, in what way is Christianity effecting your life as an atheist email468 - Christians aren't going to stone you for not being Christian, you don't have Christians knocking at your door forcing you to repent your sins..

The problem I have with people who label themselves as atheists is that they generally tend to bash Christians. To a certain extent thats ok because everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it becomes a problem when atheists try to convince other people that religion is a lie. If you are an atheist - thats ok, its a choice you've made and a choice you are entitled to. If you are religious, thats fine - because thats a choice you've made and you are entitled to have that choice. Don't go around bashing people who turn to religion for hope just because of what you believe, as far as I know there is no mathematical formula that can prove or disprove either theories.

There is no way that we can prove or disprove the existence of an intelligent creator, when you show me this mathematical formula that can prove that billions of people were wrong I will denounce my beliefs.

I do not normally "bash" any religion publicly though I have no problem defending my right not to believe in things without evidence.

I am all for freedom which would include believing whatever you want. Even if your beliefs include an end-of-the-world scenario and predictions. Since most of us are familiar with Christianity, and you specifically asked about Christianity in particular, I will use it as an example.

Revelations is mostly misinterpreted by devout Christians as being a prophecy when in reality it was most likely written as historical allegory - the destruction of the temple and all that - but I don't want to go into that right now. I will stick with the most agreed upon interpretation which is prophecy.

I will go out on a limb and say most devout Christians believe that Revelations has something to do with the end of the world and is prophecy - that is something that has yet to take place but will in the future. Revelations "predicts" the rebirth of Israel and another destruction of the temple among the things that must happen before Christ's return. What this means is, if you believe the bible is the word of God and is infallible, seeing a mushroom cloud in Jerusalem would have s silver lining - surely this must mean the end of days is nigh, right?

now you are free to believe this or not - the problem i have... as an atheist is when people who are in charge of nuclear (or even conventional) weapons believe this tripe. Another words, someone who believes that some sort of destruction is mandatory for a deities return (like in Revelations) should NOT be making decisions that could bring that possibility about.

What i want is policy decisions based on reality - not some ancient rambling and easily misinterpreted book. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim and that should hold through all policy decisions. I want leaders whose highest power in their life is the people they serve - not some God that they can use to justify any of their heinous (or even their good) actions.

So when someone who believes the Bible is absolute truth and the best thing for the world would be Christ's return and in order for that to happen the temple in Jerusalem must be destroyed and this person has access to the weapons that could make this destruction possible and said person is elected to be the US president... then i have a BIG FUCKING PROBLEM with religion. I'd have the same problem if we'd elect someone who "believes" a specific race inferior or superior or someone who "believes" the moon is made of cheese. The point I am making is - public policy should be based on reality - not in what someone "believes".

And let's not forget that Christians are responsible for the Inquisition and the subsequent witch burnings during the middle ages. It was also Christians, during the age of empires, that spearheaded the dual campaign of conversion and terror which decimated native populations. Christians were also responsible for the many pogroms throughout Europe (up to and including the Holocaust).

These are rather extreme examples (though a mushroom cloud in Jerusalem is getting more likely every day - thanks to religion).. so instead of focusing on the doomsday scenario, would you prefer to talk about Christians who want ID taught in schools instead of science? or Christians who fight against homosexual unions or birth control? Do you realize that there are Christian missionaries who will not hand out condoms in Africa because God doesn't like them (condoms that is) even though they would greatly reduce the spread of AIDS? very loving indeed.

In my opinion, the worse of all is Christian parents filling their children's heads with horrible stories of hell-fire and damnation. You know - the kind of parents who would be appalled at seeing some boobies on TV but have no problem telling their kids how God killed his only son by nailing him to a tree for all our sins. or that God killed all the first born in Egypt cause the Pharaoh refused to obey His nonsensical orders. Or how God turned Abraham's wife into a pillar of salt for what? oh yeah she looked behind her when God told her not to. I am talking about the parents who say you better be good kiddies or that ole devil will take you down to hell and not just for a day or two - forever and ever and ever. what a disgusting and sickening thing for a parent to tell a child.

I say this is the worse because it forever instills fear and guilt in an innocent child but it does something else potentially far worse and that is establishing faith as a virtue. faith is a virtue? how the hell is believing in something with no evidence at all - or worse - believing something IN SPITE of the evidence a virtue? more like close-minded idiocy to me - but hey - no harm done, right?

I wonder how many religious folks would be around if they weren't indoctrinated into it at an early age. I mean, how many folks would purposefully blind their eyes to reason to adopt a faith.

I will stop "bashing" religion when the "religious" folks are willing to vote for an admittedly atheist president. fair enough?

email468 · May 12, 2008

daydrops said:
debunked? please. the writer is obviously ignorant of christianity and probably every other religion. this could logically be called a rant about mysticism in general. but none of the points that he raised have any type of validity to a christian. dismissed.

if you want to debunk christianity to a christian, you must debunk the very foundation of their world-view, not just attack their implausible story. what is their foundation? the bible, of course. if you can get a christian to either lose faith in the book's authenticity or in their denomination's interpretation of it, then you will have debunked their faith. (this is much easier said then done.)

untill then, this is just another shallow thinking, non-believer spitting fire at some religion's queer ideas. get in line.

Until "believers" are willing to listen to evidence - this can never happen.

If I pose the question: "What would make you stop believing in the Bible and God?" and your answer is "Nothing" - then it really doesn't matter what the evidence points towards, does it?

If you ask a me what would make me belief in a God - i would respond with a few things that would turn my head around. Some code buried deep in some mathematical algorithms (ala Carl Sagan's idea about PI in contact). Or any event that science can not explain based on what science already knows - like if the Earth stopped rotating for a bit and then started again with no ill effects. you know- a real miracle that does not have any natural explanation would be convincing evidence.

But as long as there are religious folks speaking what they believe, I thank God (some levity is OK, right?) that there are atheists willing to stand up and speak their minds as well.

itsgrowinglikeaweed · May 12, 2008

Regardless of which side you are on, if you would rather explore than ignore the suject of religion you will want to read some of Joseph Simonetti's writings. This man has a Masters of Divinity Degree from Harvard U. Has studied all earthly religions (past and present). You can read his books free online. Here is a link to the best one. Seven Words that can Change the World page 0 - Introduction Its a short book. It has been desribed as a thousand pages worth of words in just 22 pages. Its called Seven Words That Can Change The World.

High4Life · May 12, 2008

I was on you tube this morning watching some cool weed mmovies growing , extraction methods ect Guess what the were all talking about underneath lmao ..If there is a god or not hahah

danieljk91 · May 12, 2008

Formed religion is a joke.

DarkStorm · May 12, 2008

I agree. People who subject their children to religion are damaging the child.

Yondaime · May 12, 2008

@daydrops:

I don't believe the bible to be a textbook or law book that can just be referenced out of, it contains what it needs to contain for certain individuals who have the capacity to understand a part of it at a time in their lives..

"He who has ears let him hear" - Jesus. I don't think the bible will benefit everyone, whats written in it is just for the benefit for those who will read it and understand it or have the capacity in their lives to understand a certain part of it in their lifetimes and I think for any single man to understand the Christian God in his entirety would be implausible.

I think to try and discredit the bible wouldn't have that much effect on true Christians who base their faith on their connection with God..

@email468:

First off, don't take me the wrong way - I hate the modern conventional idea of Christianity, it becomes a purely social popularity contest and people who are into religion just so that they can sit on a high horse and tell people what they have done wrong. I am totally against this kind of Christian, I am also against the Christian who will try to convert and save everyone - I think its pointless and it just leads to resentment and dislike for Christianity and the Christian God. Christians who only focus on the bible and forget all about God which is the point of their religion I'm also against. Christians who have been brought up as Christians and have never questioned God, their religion and their beliefs I am against because a religion and belief should be your own and not inherited.

My point is, even as a Christian (if I can call myself that) I'm disgusted by the way alot of people who call themselves Christian act in their belief - I probably have more against modern Christians than most atheists do. This is because I believe in human error, people make mistakes, people can be deceived, people can be misled and thats why I never accept anything I hear as fact until I've had time to mull it over with the source material first.

As for prophecy and the future, Revelations is a bit abstract for me - Its best interpreted with the time that it was written in kept in mind and read in the language that it was written for. Its hard for us to make sense of what is written because it covers a man who is supposed to have had a glimpse at the future - not even the present, he is supposed to have seen a glimpse of the end times where technology has surpassed even what we have at the moment.

If we assume that the person who wrote Revelations was indeed John who wrote the book of John in the new testament then we can safely assume that he had not seen any modern technology - he had not even seen a car or a bicycle. He was on an island and he had never seen a gun, he had not seen gunpowder so imagine if you were to show someone like that an atomic explosion - helicopters and mass armies.. He wrote down what he saw, in his own words, a man who had never seen a clock describing machinery seen in the end times. That is why Revelations is so abstract and hard to understand, that is also why it is very interesting for theologians because it can be interpreted in so many different ways.

I prefer looking at what Jesus said to his disciples and the people for the coming of the end times, it is more direct, simpler and less abstract than what was written in Revelations and it was written before Revelations. It leaves hints of what almost all Christians quest to understand in their lives - God's plan. If we look at the bible we get this idea of the future:

Jesus says that there will be no signs given,

Matthew 6:14 - A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

So basically, Christians have to believe in God without the aid of a miraculous sign. But Jesus also acknowledges those that have to believe in something that they can never be completely sure of.

John 20:29 - Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

People will be misled by false prophets,

Matthew 24:24 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves

Matthew 24:11 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

This is extremely true today, there are multitudes of variations and sects of Christianity, and a multitude of religions out there. People have been misled, led to believe certain things that may or may not be true and people have become confused and many have just decided that they've had enough of all of it.

There will be war and rumours of war,
Matthew 24:6 - And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet

What Jesus tells his disciples and the people about the future is not pretty. The bible does not paint a pretty picture for the future, people are going to die, people are going to suffer and what happens has to happen - it is and has always been part of God's plan. That is why the Christian God's plan is so hard to understand because he brings both destruction and salvation in his wake.

As for faith, just think of it as a child that has to trust his parents because it knows no better.. The reason why faith is necessary in a child's life is because the child can not possibly understand the workings and consequences of an electrical appliance - the only thing it can do is believe blindly that touching loose electrical wires will kill it and consequently avoid it. It is submitence, accepting that we are not in control and forcing ourselves to believe in something that is impossible or implausible in our understanding. For Christians that means that if you ask for something you will receive it so long as you have faith;

Matthew 17:20- - And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Mark 11:23 - I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him.

Matthew 21:21 - Jesus replied, I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.

Alot of emphasis has been placed on believing that you will receive what you are asking, regardless of the means, focusing only on the outcome.

Rules are there for the child so that it does not hurt itself, don't touch the stove when its on, don't eat before you go swimming, look before you cross the street, do this, don't do that - they are all there so that the child will have a better chance at survival. Laws in a country are also there to prolong our lives to a certain extent. Its the same with commandments and God's laws - they are there to ensure that you will have a better chance regardless of whether we understand the rule or law - obviously people now days understand the world a bit better than people of that time so less of God's laws apply, but the majority of them will always apply.

As for the moral question about why does God lets bad things happen and why does God allow suffering, loneliness, heartache, torment, blindness, aids, terrorism, plague, drought, disease and what ever you think is bad in this world? (Isaiah 45:7 - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.")

That question is probably the oldest question in religion and the most answered. We will probably never get a real conclusion on that question until the end times (assuming that there will be an end times), but everything is, and has already been in his plan from the start so we will have to wait and see..

Anyway it seems that has taken me an hour to type lol, so I'm gonna take a break..

email468 · May 12, 2008

Yondaime said:
@daydrops:

I don't believe the bible to be a textbook or law book that can just be referenced out of, it contains what it needs to contain for certain individuals who have the capacity to understand a part of it at a time in their lives..

"He who has ears let him hear" - Jesus. I don't think the bible will benefit everyone, whats written in it is just for the benefit for those who will read it and understand it or have the capacity in their lives to understand a certain part of it in their lifetimes and I think for any single man to understand the Christian God in his entirety would be implausible.

I think to try and discredit the bible wouldn't have that much effect on true Christians who base their faith on their connection with God..

@email468:

First off, don't take me the wrong way - I hate the modern conventional idea of Christianity, it becomes a purely social popularity contest and people who are into religion just so that they can sit on a high horse and tell people what they have done wrong. I am totally against this kind of Christian, I am also against the Christian who will try to convert and save everyone - I think its pointless and it just leads to resentment and dislike for Christianity and the Christian God. Christians who only focus on the bible and forget all about God which is the point of their religion I'm also against. Christians who have been brought up as Christians and have never questioned God, their religion and their beliefs I am against because a religion and belief should be your own and not inherited.

My point is, even as a Christian (if I can call myself that) I'm disgusted by the way alot of people who call themselves Christian act in their belief - I probably have more against modern Christians than most atheists do. This is because I believe in human error, people make mistakes, people can be deceived, people can be misled and thats why I never accept anything I hear as fact until I've had time to mull it over with the source material first.

As for prophecy and the future, Revelations is a bit abstract for me - Its best interpreted with the time that it was written in kept in mind and read in the language that it was written for. Its hard for us to make sense of what is written because it covers a man who is supposed to have had a glimpse at the future - not even the present, he is supposed to have seen a glimpse of the end times where technology has surpassed even what we have at the moment.

If we assume that the person who wrote Revelations was indeed John who wrote the book of John in the new testament then we can safely assume that he had not seen any modern technology - he had not even seen a car or a bicycle. He was on an island and he had never seen a gun, he had not seen gunpowder so imagine if you were to show someone like that an atomic explosion - helicopters and mass armies.. He wrote down what he saw, in his own words, a man who had never seen a clock describing machinery seen in the end times. That is why Revelations is so abstract and hard to understand, that is also why it is very interesting for theologians because it can be interpreted in so many different ways.

I prefer looking at what Jesus said to his disciples and the people for the coming of the end times, it is more direct, simpler and less abstract than what was written in Revelations and it was written before Revelations. It leaves hints of what almost all Christians quest to understand in their lives - God's plan. If we look at the bible we get this idea of the future:

Jesus says that there will be no signs given,

Matthew 6:14 - A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

So basically, Christians have to believe in God without the aid of a miraculous sign. But Jesus also acknowledges those that have to believe in something that they can never be completely sure of.

John 20:29 - Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

People will be misled by false prophets,

Matthew 24:24 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves

Matthew 24:11 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

This is extremely true today, there are multitudes of variations and sects of Christianity, and a multitude of religions out there. People have been misled, led to believe certain things that may or may not be true and people have become confused and many have just decided that they've had enough of all of it.

There will be war and rumours of war,
Matthew 24:6 - And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet

What Jesus tells his disciples and the people about the future is not pretty. The bible does not paint a pretty picture for the future, people are going to die, people are going to suffer and what happens has to happen - it is and has always been part of God's plan. That is why the Christian God's plan is so hard to understand because he brings both destruction and salvation in his wake.

As for faith, just think of it as a child that has to trust his parents because it knows no better.. The reason why faith is necessary in a child's life is because the child can not possibly understand the workings and consequences of an electrical appliance - the only thing it can do is believe blindly that touching loose electrical wires will kill it and consequently avoid it. It is submitence, accepting that we are not in control and forcing ourselves to believe in something that is impossible or implausible in our understanding. For Christians that means that if you ask for something you will receive it so long as you have faith;

Matthew 17:20- - And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Mark 11:23 - I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him.

Matthew 21:21 - Jesus replied, I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.

Alot of emphasis has been placed on believing that you will receive what you are asking, regardless of the means, focusing only on the outcome.

Rules are there for the child so that it does not hurt itself, don't touch the stove when its on, don't eat before you go swimming, look before you cross the street, do this, don't do that - they are all there so that the child will have a better chance at survival. Laws in a country are also there to prolong our lives to a certain extent. Its the same with commandments and God's laws - they are there to ensure that you will have a better chance regardless of whether we understand the rule or law - obviously people now days understand the world a bit better than people of that time so less of God's laws apply, but the majority of them will always apply.

As for the moral question about why does God lets bad things happen and why does God allow suffering, loneliness, heartache, torment, blindness, aids, terrorism, plague, drought, disease and what ever you think is bad in this world? (Isaiah 45:7 - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.")

That question is probably the oldest question in religion and the most answered. We will probably never get a real conclusion on that question until the end times (assuming that there will be an end times), but everything is, and has already been in his plan from the start so we will have to wait and see..

Anyway it seems that has taken me an hour to type lol, so I'm gonna take a break..

This is a very well thought out post. If all religious folks were like you, I doubt the world would be in such dire straits as it is today.

However - the world is full of people willing to lay down their lives for their religion - which is fine. But they tend to want to take others with them - which is not so fine. I would point out two things regarding moderates (like yourself) - first - you enable the zealots to be what they are - if you don't follow the bible - why call yourself a christian? why not just call yourself spiritual or a deist and let it go at that. Jesus sure didn't invent the golden rule and he isn't the only god-man-child to have said treat people nice. the second thing i would point out to a moderate like yourself is - regardless what you call yourself - the fundies will burn you right alongside me. In fact, in their mind you are far worse as you are a false prophet - whereas i am just an out-an-out heathen.

I would point out that I must not have made my point very clearly as you did not really address any of them - other than to say - i am not that kind of Christian. A child obeying a parent without question is not the same as an adult believing the Earth stopped rotating or a sea was parted to allow folks to stroll across the dry bottom. There is a difference between blind obedience (necessary for childhood survival) and blind faith (necessary for good men to commit evil acts).

I would also add that the modern day christianity is not that different from post-Roman times.

Yondaime · May 12, 2008

I guess I did get carried away a bit and overlooked quite a few of your points please allow me to address a few of them.

So when someone who believes the Bible is absolute truth and the best thing for the world would be Christ's return and in order for that to happen the temple in Jerusalem must be destroyed and this person has access to the weapons that could make this destruction possible and said person is elected to be the US president... then i have a BIG FUCKING PROBLEM with religion. I'd have the same problem if we'd elect someone who "believes" a specific race inferior or superior or someone who "believes" the moon is made of cheese. The point I am making is - public policy should be based on reality - not in what someone "believes".

I think we would all have a problem with that scenario, religious or not religious. However we are told ironically that the anti-Christ will play the part in the end times and will lead on to the coming of the Messiah as opposed to a fundamentalist bringing on the end times so I guess we will just have to wait and see. Either way I believe that politics in developed and civilized countries tend to lean towards separating religion from war.

Regarding mixing religion with politics, I agree with you - it is definitely not logical for any one man to decide the fate of a country that consists of a huge diversity of different religions and beliefs based on his own religious orientation.

However the chance of a political decision for a diverse and developed country like America, China or Russia to go to nuclear war purely due to religion is surely highly unlikely? Considering that there will be protests, general outrage and the country would go crazy if a decision such as that were to be made possible. Yes, I think a mushroom cloud in Jerusalem would be quite religiously significant, but that doesn't seem to be probable at the moment or in the near future.

War or no war, I think that there is still a long time to come before the end times.. Isaac Newton made a calculated prediction that the world would not end before 2060 and thats probably the best bet I could give at the moment. Even if the world doesn't end up destroying itself, just like everything else in life - humanity will have a peak and a decline, we will all become extinct eventually. We will all die - that is inevitable.

I call myself a Christian based on the set of deitys and prophets that Christianity contains, which I choose to believe as logically significant and credible. Although I must disagree that I find no connection between my actions and that of a false prophet. Obedience is a result of conformism due to fear for the possibility of punishment, Blind Faith is free choice without the incidence of fear of punishment or consequence.

I would also add that the modern day Christianity is not that different from post-Roman times.

Well I would hope so, surely human nature hasn't changed?

Yondaime · May 12, 2008

As for parents that scare their children into obedience, they bring children up into a very warped and just plain wrong view on what hell is and evil is. Hell is not about God torturing people and people burning in a lake of fire, weeping and gnashing their teeth as they deal with the horrible pain that is inflicted on them - Hell is the final result of the guilt, suffering and torment that people experience in life and bring upon themselves from birth.

The whole idea is that we have a chance to be saved from hell by a Messiah, that there is hope so that we will not suffer in torment eternally. We are not condemned to hell for eternity due to disobedience by a higher power as punishment, we end up in a hell as a result of the evil and guilt that consumes us. We are on a downward slope to insanity and dementia from the moment we tried to be God, its the concept of the fall of man - the concept of original sin.

Sorry just had to get that last bit out..

email468 · May 12, 2008

Yondaime said:
As for parents that scare their children into obedience, they bring children up into a very warped and just plain wrong view on what hell is and evil is. Hell is not about God torturing people and people burning in a lake of fire, weeping and gnashing their teeth as they deal with the horrible pain that is inflicted on them - Hell is the final result of the guilt, suffering and torment that people experience in life and bring upon themselves from birth.

The whole idea is that we have a chance to be saved from hell by a Messiah, that there is hope so that we will not suffer in torment eternally. We are not condemned to hell for eternity due to disobedience by a higher power as punishment, we end up in a hell as a result of the evil and guilt that consumes us. We are on a downward slope to insanity and dementia from the moment we tried to be God, its the concept of the fall of man - the concept of original sin.

Sorry just had to get that last bit out..

I'm glad you did. Very well put! :joint:

ZenMaster · May 13, 2008

Yondaime said:
As for parents that scare their children into obedience, they bring children up into a very warped and just plain wrong view on what hell is and evil is. Hell is not about God torturing people and people burning in a lake of fire, weeping and gnashing their teeth as they deal with the horrible pain that is inflicted on them - Hell is the final result of the guilt, suffering and torment that people experience in life and bring upon themselves from birth.

God does not torture you in hell. Hell is the absence of God, there you are awakened to the horror that you no longer have a guidance and love that you took for granted.

Yondaime said:
The whole idea is that we have a chance to be saved from hell by a Messiah, that there is hope so that we will not suffer in torment eternally. We are not condemned to hell for eternity due to disobedience by a higher power as punishment, we end up in a hell as a result of the evil and guilt that consumes us. We are on a downward slope to insanity and dementia from the moment we tried to be God, its the concept of the fall of man - the concept of original sin.

Sorry just had to get that last bit out..

Do you know why there is a savior? Because when Moses brought down the 10 commandments that showed us the defining line of good and evil, we failed. Shortly after Moses had the commandments, the Jews started to worship a golden idol much to Moses's disbelief. I can almost hear it, "Are you people freakin kidding me?!" then he broke them. Humanity is very stupid. That gave the solution of Jesus, humanity failed to save itself, so now we have to have a sacrifice to atone for all of our sins, the only remaining requirement is to acknowledge this, how simple is that?

Yondaime · May 13, 2008

Uh dude, read what I said again lol

Your confused.

ZenMaster · May 13, 2008

Yondaime said:
Uh dude, read what I said again lol

Your confused.

Yes, I haven't read your other posts but I think I know what your trying to get at, some people think that hell is just a collaboration of all your bad experiences and evils you have did replaying forever the moment you die.

I just wanted to point out how stupid humanity was is all.

email468 · May 13, 2008

ZenMaster said:
Yes, I haven't read your other posts but I think I know what your trying to get at, some people think that hell is just a collaboration of all your bad experiences and evils you have did replaying forever the moment you die.

I just wanted to point out how stupid humanity was is all.

Unless I'm mistaken, you obviously have very deep-seated religious beliefs that are Christian in flavor. I'm not sure if I've asked this before, but I am curious about your username: ZenMaster. I'm wondering how you can marry being a ZenMaster with being a devout Christian?

None of my damn business is, of course, an acceptable answer but you seem willing to share your other beliefs so I figured I'd ask.

Yondaime · May 13, 2008

ZenMasteR: I think you missed the toke and talk section, this is the spirituality, sexuality and philosophy section

WWgrower · May 13, 2008

Great article, brought up a lot of things I have been thinking. The real questions I have are why did Jesus have to come at such a stupid time. And being the son of god or god why have a human sacrifice to forgive us our sins. He's god all he has to say is from this time forward I forgive you of your sins. Also if he forgave us of our sins then no problem everyone gets a E ticket to heaven. Right? Last all god has to do is appear in the heavens or whereever he see's fit and let us know he is there and stop wars, killing and all the scores of horrible barbaric atrosities that happen everyday. JUSY MY 2 CENTS

email468 · May 13, 2008

WWgrower said:
The real questions I have are why did Jesus have to come at such a stupid time. And being the son of god or god why have a human sacrifice to forgive us our sins.

The real question is why would God need to get his Son involved at all. If God is perfect (not capable of making mistakes) then His creations (us) would also be incapable of making mistakes. Or if that isn't logical enough how about this one - why couldn't God just forgive us without the Jesus thing - wouldn't an all-powerful God just be able to forgive and have done with it - i mean if He is omniscient He would already know what fuck-ups we'd turn out to be so why not just go ahead and correct his mistake (or would that require Him admitting He is not infallible).

I have heard that God is all-knowing, all-loving and all-powerful. To which I call bullshit. If he were all-loving there is no possible way He'd allow the horrible things that happen in this world. And if he is all-loving then He either doesn't know about it (so He isn't all-knowing) or can't do anything about it (so He isn't all-powerful).

Hmmm. I could go on and on and on but i think you get the picture. OK one more... God can't be all-knowing/omniscient - otherwise He wouldn't keep acting all surprised when we screw up (ala The Big Flood)... wouldn't He have seen that one coming?

email468 · May 13, 2008

or another question... why would an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving God create imperfect beings with desires and then demand we not only fight against those God-given desires but devote our life to praising Him? I mean what kind of a sicko would do such a thing?

Like training a dog to go the bathroom in the house and then getting upset when it does - just doesn't make sense to me.

jaiddragon · May 13, 2008

when i believed, i thought that god must love us as a whole, not neccesarily (holy shit i spelled it right first try! yay me) as individuals, kinda like an ant farm...

it really is a lonely feeling, coming to understand that there is no entity watching over you, or whatever dogma you were taught to believe...

no wonder people fight so hard to hold on to the delusion...

Christianity has been debunked once and for all

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