Central DIY LED Link location- Beginning to End!

I suppose I am way off on the source,

apologies. Besides getting baked, I seem to be a bit scattered this week, small shit, but still..

"heraeus board"
 
That bad huh? lol

Im really trying to grasp the simplicity of every thing, but seem to think about things to heavily..

Basically, I have always wanted to build my own panels, always been a DIY guy, and recently went with a custom ratio on my A51's for Flower

10:2:3 (WW:NW:630)

well... after learning a bit more, never stopping, that you want to keep your blue through the first couple weeks to "help retain the stretch"

Nonetheless, I enjoy my panels and thought making some DIY panels- strips and "block" style (similar to Astir) would be perfect supp panels to provide that balance till I want to hit full blown flower.

This is what I have been rolling over:

x1-3 2x12" Strips, consisting of NW's, possibly blues (dono if the NWs, or even CW's, could provide enough?), and THEN maybe thinking some 660 and FR's on a seperate driver/channel- as to take advantage of the strip throughout the whole cycle.

Was thinking 120* angles for a good majority of things? If youve seen my set up, I will be angling my two panels inward, my plan was to put one strip in the center of the two, and the other two at the bottom end (edge of cabinet) of the lights, to spread the blue and red out, respectively.

I started rolling over the idea of making one of those strip lights for the center, then making 2 6x6" (~) DIY panels, or possibly 6x12" to take advantage of all available space.

With the similar idea as above, though I would like to incorporate more of the same ratio I have in my A51's with these, as these would be more of a Supp Light for intensity, instead of spectrum.

But i love the idea of having separate drivers/channels to control which combinations and sets of modules you want to supplement...

I am truly busting my ass trying to grasp the whole... Emitter-->Epoxy-->PCB-->HS

But 2.5 million questions go off in my head... like whats the significant differences in Aluminum alloy PCB's, Coppoer, or FR4 PCBs? what do the different ratings mean? (1065, 5062......)

Im starting to find some sources for emitters, but dont know wether I am about to get ripped or not..

it's like learning what a good LED light is... all. over. again.



"Discipline is the refining flame, by which Talent becomes Ability"
 
Was thinking 120* angles for a good majority of things? If youve seen my set up, I will be angling my two panels inward, my plan was to put one strip in the center of the two, and the other two at the bottom end (edge of cabinet) of the lights, to spread the blue and red out, respectively.
Click to expand...

for the center one 120° will be OK.
angling with 120° emitter is most times a bad idea, 60-90° is the way to go here.
anywhere in the astir thread is a draft from me where you can see what happend

I started rolling over the idea of making one of those strip lights for the center, then making 2 6x6" (~) DIY panels, or possibly 6x12" to take advantage of all available space.
Click to expand...

how many watts are you thinking off for this 6x6/12 heatsinks?

But i love the idea of having separate drivers/channels to control which combinations and sets of modules you want to supplement...
Click to expand...
piece of cake... if you are willing to pay the price..

I am truly busting my ass trying to grasp the whole... Emitter-->Epoxy-->PCB-->HS

But 2.5 million questions go off in my head... like whats the significant differences in Aluminum alloy PCB's, Coppoer, or FR4 PCBs? what do the different ratings mean? (1065, 5062......)
Click to expand...

subtleties...we are not doing high-end here,
 
Basically whatever I can push for the 6x6/12"

I am a fan of the original 1w'ers but am not quite aware what they make in 1's (whites, 660, FR)

Thinking a ballpark of 30 drawn watts for a 6x6"

50-60 for the 6x12"

What're you thinkin G?
 
Thinking a ballpark of 30 drawn watts for a 6x6"
Click to expand...

fin height about 1,6" for a passive one.
an active version with nearly this size is in my thread. "campingstove"

osram, cree...have no 1w leds for our purpose,
also for 30w you need at least 30 diodes, on starPCB not a nice idea on 6x6"
i would go for 500mA on the 3W led and try to get them on 10x10mm stars
 
Thank you for your insight guod, I completely gapped the idea of fitting 30+ 1w diodes on a 6x6 sq... ha...

4 rows of 3 on a 6x6 of 3w@500

10x10mm stars, this is single PCBs, right?

Could anyone point me in the right direction for PCB's? Are they diode specific? (noticed some descriptions were very specific..)
http://www.niviss.com/index.php?en_ngine-rectangular,7

I like the idea of single place PCB, but is there a good source for LED PCB boards/strips?

Which is more cost effective? Which is better for your overall Rt?

Ive found sources like that... but for me, is out of range (U.S.)
 
each led has his own footprint, for chin.ones you can find some Pcbs at ali(streetlights, see Astir)
for cree, osram etc or a mix of them no way.

i build all my lights on single Pcb, fast, flexible, and if one is dead repair is easy. with pads under the stars i change them in minutes.
as long as you build only 10 in the same style its also cheaper.
 
65 Watt Flower-Spectrum passive cooled, dimmable
beam angle 80° for angling, optimized fin orientation in inclined position.

two channels red and white/blue for seperate dimming. simple wireing

for the blue part of the spectrum a mix of warmwhite with two different blues.
450nm from warmwhite and blue leds
475nm from from 4 blue leds angle here is 130° for better spread, same for the other blue
on the red part we have 630 and 645(660)

leds(all http://www.led-tech.de/en/index.html)

3 OSRAM Oslon SSL 80 warm-white CRI 95 Array
6 x Oslon SSL 80 LCW CQ7P.CC-JUKQ

2 OSRAM Oslon SSL 80 red Array
6 x Oslon SSL 80 LHCP7P-2T3T (3T)

2 OSRAM Oslon SSL 80 red Array
6 x Oslon SSL 80 LRCP7P-JRJT (JS)

a little bit diy reflow here...

1 Micro PCB for Cree XP-E in Frame
30x aluminium PCB for high power emitter

4 CREE XP-E M2 Emitter
Cree XPEBLU-L1-B4-M2

2 CREE XP-E D5-15 Emitter
Cree XPEROY-L1-D5-15

remote drivers, dimmable with a standart household triac unit.
Drivers
2 Meanwell PCD-40-500B
http://www.meanwell.com/search/pcd-40/default.htm

heatsink(heatsinkusa.com)
10.080" Wide Extruded Aluminum Heatsink lenght = 7"
View attachment 2622385
 
wow, thank you guod.

these are all going to be driven at 500mA? is there any way to see the shift (or is there any shift?)?

I have been playing around with your Spectrum Tool you posted a while ago (Chinese, osrams, helios, crees...)

That is a freaking gold mine in its own, thank you.

But obviously when I put all of them in together, im assuming its not the correct spectrum if they are going to be ran separately?

Do i need to put them in as 1.) Blues/WW and 2.) WW/Reds- this will give me a better idea of what I am looking at?

I just want to confirm, I do not like the idea of dimming LEDs with a dimmable driver (kills life?) I was thinking more of seperate switches to turn on and off like the 1 and 2 idea.

Would this mean 3 drivers?

I apologize if I had misinterpreted things by saying channels/drivers/... as I am a newb..

"1 Micro PCB for Cree XP-E in Frame
30x aluminium PCB for high power emitter"

Are these the single pcbs you are talking about? I saw you can purchase the diodes mounted to the star for .50 more

If this is what they are would this be more cost effective?

I promise, I realize how irritating 20 q/a's are, and I do insanely appreciate everything you have and are doing to help me out- i am just trying to better understand every thing.

EDIT:

OR

would you suggest a different approach to the WW/B and WW/R switch idea? Should I go dimmable with the blues and always use them, just accordingly? are you talking about having the WW and R's on the same driver, then the blues separately? or WW and blues together and dimmable?

ENLIGHTEN me guod, let me in on your master plan!

(I cant thank you enough.)
 
okay,

I think im just about up to speed on the emitters and PCB chosen and kind of got myself a general idea of what every thing is going to cost

I only need one of those Micro pcbs for a each set of 3 emitters? (Theyre only ~1.5x2.5" and i dont know how much space I need per emitter) Or should I just rock the stars and epoxy those sob's?

Im looking at "triac units" and its kindve throwing me off a bit... though wiki is NOT the most reliable thing in the world..

I THINK we're on the same page about the controls?

The terminals in a triac allows you to swtich off between them on a single switch??? Is that what's goin down? (or does it actually dim the current being given to the emitters?)
 
these are all going to be driven at 500mA? is there any way to see the shift (or is there any shift?)?
Click to expand...

without dimmig 500mA for all.

we need two drivers here because the voltage for all leds in one string will be very high(130V)
so i go for a two driver(channels) design and split it into red(55V) and blue/white(75V).
each driver will be good for 80V. both have max. 40W the driver for the red use 28W the other 37W
!!! 80V gives also a nice feeling if you touch them, but most times not deadly as you know :eyesmoke:

switching one channel off is a bad idea in this design you got only blue/white or only red. both are not growing spectras.
switching parts of one string, you have to be a wireing maniac!

one dimmer for both channels will be nice if there is a need for lower wattage. spectrum will be the same and there is no killing
of anything. what you got is lower heat
what happend if we are dimming each channel separately can be seen in the pic.
grey line 500mA for all
blue line 50%(250mA) for the red 80% for blue/ww
red line 75% on red and 40% blue/ww
these are only showcase numbers to see what happend.
89-sectrum.jpg
cree on star-PCB no problem, but i thought you will learn to reflow...hoho

there are two ways to control this light
1. wattage for both channels..see above
2. wattage only for the red channel... could help in the veg-phase



the dimmer is on the primary side, so with something like this
10206386_dimmer_sw_neu.jpg

a plug and a socket or two, and you are done. a flexible solution i think.

would you suggest a different approach to the WW/B and WW/R switch idea? Should I go dimmable with the blues and always use them, just accordingly? are you talking about having the WW and R's on the same driver, then the blues separately? or WW and blues together and dimmable?
Click to expand...

my idea here was make it simple. more switches and drivers > more wireing between the leds, more cables from the driver to the light.

going this way? than take a look at the GD-SDS Projekt.
 
Fantastic, ive started adding things up

This will probably be collected in increments- but I am too excited. This really made my night at work fly. haha..

Simple is good, I will worry about separate power switches down the road when I am more comfortable with things.

65 watts on a dimmer sounds great, and that chart looks even better.

Thank you guod, you are the definition of what this is all about.

A truly motivating Peer.

As for my central strip light to distribute blue/full spec throughout- I am thinking about using this same design/ratio/emitters, just a smaller heatsink? Yea ill have to recalculate what I can fit on there...

but you think I could still fit a similar ratio of RWB's on there? maybe just the WW and blues, or would you dare suggest NW? Im still staying along the lines of "flower," but would like to be able to "revamp" the blues in the first couple weeks, and cut it back later.

reasons
1.) matches
2.) more simple, easier
3.) less work
4.) versatile

I thought about just building three of these and putting one in the center... 7" wide is not that massive... but I dont want to speak to early as I dont have both A51 -90's in the cabinet right now..

THOUGH Jeff did email me yesterday saying he figured it out and is shipping it today.
 
just a smaller heatsink?
Click to expand...
smaller, not by much, 6" maybe
and a bigger one run into this problem...
Spreading resistance

Rs in standard heatsinks is measured by introducing heat evenly over its entire mounting face. If the hot device is any smaller than the whole mounting face, heat has to move sideways before it can reach the dissipation area. This additional flow resistance is the spreading resistance.

http://www.electronicsweekly.com/ar...ctronics-weeklys-guide-to-led-heatsinking.htm

here the leds are concentrate(more or less)in the center of the heatsink, good for the spectrum bad for heat.
as allways a compromise.

but would like to be able to "revamp" the blues in the first couple weeks, and cut it back later.
Click to expand...

in the first weeks you also can go with less power.
maybe a little bit tricky to get it
as i say in a previous post we have 28W on the red channel and 37W in the bl/ww channel.

if we put the red channel now on a dimmer...

without the reds(dimmer off) we have 37W pur bl/ww
this gives us 30% blue and 40% red coming from the warmwhites.

dimming at 50% we will have 51W
or 20% blue and 60% red in the mix
and 20% blue is enough in Veg.

I thought about just building three of these and putting one in the center... 7" wide is not that massive... but I dont want to speak to early as I dont have both A51 -90's in the cabinet right now..
Click to expand...

an idea with 4 of them...
no center one, each A51 gets two of them on the sides
in the first weeks the a51 are off, the other 4 panels
with the dimmer on the red channel,(all of them on one) will do the job. 140 to 200W is a lot in this phase.
or maybe only two? number of plants and aera is here the question.

with time you can dial in more and more red, so the plants can adapt to the flower spectra, just like in nature.
switching then the A51 on and put the dimmer on both channels. 30% for the first Days and then increase to the max. or what ever you need, over some days.
89-A51.jpg

A51 has 120° or i´m wrong?
 
guod said:
smaller, not by much, 6" maybe
and a bigger one run into this problem...
Spreading resistance

Rs in standard heatsinks is measured by introducing heat evenly over its entire mounting face. If the hot device is any smaller than the whole mounting face, heat has to move sideways before it can reach the dissipation area. This additional flow resistance is the spreading resistance.
Click to expand...
There we go! Ive been doing a majority of my self education on heatsinks and thermal management so thank you for adding to the bank!!

guod said:
here the leds are concentrate(more or less)in the center of the heatsink, good for the spectrum bad for heat.
as allways a compromise.
Click to expand...

I was actually debating this yesterday, I saved the images to my phone, was that diagram "to scale" with the HS? I just assumed I would measure them all evenly and spread the difference across the HS.. but then you get into possible angles and intensity that could change the whole ballgame...?

"if we put the red channel now on a dimmer...

without the reds(dimmer off) we have 37W pur bl/ww
this gives us 30% blue and 40% red coming from the warmwhites.

dimming at 50% we will have 51W
or 20% blue and 60% red in the mix
and 20% blue is enough in Veg." <<<---- so you are saying that it is pointless to put the reds on a dimmer? (too much blue?) And that I would be achieving my goal by just having a central dimmer and cutting it back to 50%, right?


I really enjoy your concept... ironically I was rolling over an idea similar yesterday, here's the specifics that confine me...

Cabinet Dimensions: 33"x~15.5"x72"
A51 Panel Dimensions: 15.75"x11.125"x2.812"

yea... i am packing those 51's in pretty tight lol.. and probably dont need the sup at all after the scrog... but do in it's own. Not to mention the knowledge that comes with doing it...and I could possibly make more stealth projects down the road, etc etc

guod said:
an idea with 4 of them...
no center one, each A51 gets two of them on the sides
in the first weeks the a51 are off, the other 4 panels
with the dimmer on the red channel,(all of them on one) will do the job. 140 to 200W is a lot in this phase.
or maybe only two? number of plants and aera is here the question.
Click to expand...

Remember also I can turn only half of each 51 panel on/off at a time.

I am a small time fella, me, two plants in each chamber, under a scrog and living the sweet, sweet, led life.

"with time you can dial in more and more red, so the plants can adapt to the flower spectra, just like in nature.
switching then the A51 on and put the dimmer on both channels. 30% for the first Days and then increase to the max. or what ever you need, over some days.
View attachment 2623379"

I simply love your idea, that diagram is exactly what I had imagined originally, the 51's have 80* helio's I believe, and the scrog has about a ~36" maximum from the lights
 
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