.....cant find "root" of problem :)

Hi guys,

Just joined the forum - ive been browsing round the threads for a couple of months now, but didnt register....now i have lol

Anyway, I hope you guys can help me. This is my first time growing. I have 4 plants, 1 indica, 3 sativa. Indoor hydroponics (air bubbles come from bottom of pot - roots hang directly in water with air and solution).

The 3 sativas are in the same pot together and the indica is on her own.

Age: 4.5 Weeks
Light : 600W HPS 18/6 schedule at about 36 inches above plants.
Room : 5'x9'x9' enclosed - no windows.
1 Fan
Temp : Unknown, but im doing my best to get the heat down. Feels like 90 around the light, 75 in the breeze of fan (fan points over plants). Going to get thermometer tomorrow morning.

Using the Sensi Part a/b grow formula.
PH = 5.8/6 avg

No signs of fungus, pests of algae that I know of.

As you can see by the pics, i think the roots are ok. The first 5 pics are of the Indica, the last pic is of the sativas. Im not sure if they all have the same problem. The indica is DEFINITELY much worse. She has dark green stripes running down her mid-rib and veins on each leaf.

The photo of the roots seems to show healthy roots ? (they are all white/cream in color).

At first I thought it was nutrient burn, but im not sure. It also looks like heat/light burn...infact it looks like most of the problems ive seen images of and read about.

Any idea guys? I'm at a loss. I feed once a week and top up with water eod. Ph is always stable.

For now i've turned off the light and left my T5 running instead.

Thanks so much in advance, I know its probably obvious to you veterans out there, but i really cant figure it out.

My apologies if I missed something, Im trying to be thorough as possible

what nutes are you using? are mixing it too strong??? all the things to think about...anyway im blazed...i would flush and start with a weaker mix of nutes.

j h said:

what nutes are you using? are mixing it too strong??? all the things to think about...anyway im blazed...i would flush and start with a weaker mix of nutes.

Click to expand...

Ill flush again today, forgot to mention i did it yesterday, but they continued to get worse.

Using the sensi grow part A/B.

Thanks anyway for your blazed help man, blazed or not its helpful to hear 2nd opinion

Droop looks like overwatering. The colors look like nute/heat burn. Roots look really good though and that is usually the best indication of plant health. Look around very closely for any pests, that may be a problem as well. Good luck

BTW, get those sativas into their own pot! The roots will begin to attack each other and the plants will choke each other out. IF you are lucky you will get one live but sick plant out of it. The roots are probably already intertwined but it will only get worse.

Could also be one of these problems, from the growfaq, but I'm no expert.



Manganese
A Manganese deficiency exhibits a general chlorosis, followed by yellowing patches and necrotic patches between the veins of the larger fan leaves.








Molybdenum
A Molybdenum deficient plant will exhibit yellowing necrotic leaves from the tips inward, with necrotic lesions present from the tips inward. A very distinctive feature is that it occurs in the middle of the plant. It also may spread to the rest of the plant if not stopped, eventually killing your plant.

Fritted Trace Elements may be added to your soil mix as you prepare it for planting. A good Hydroponic nutrient should contain ample micros to get your plant through its lifecycle.











I'd work on making sure temps were good first. Maybe raise the humidity if it's too low.Usually it's the simplest thing, those particular deficiencies are pretty rare, I think. EDIT: Might even be ph. Again, from the growfaq:
[SIZE=+1]Other persistent problems[/SIZE]

pH
Improper pH can cause an abundance of problems that you might easily confuse with other problems or deficiencies.

A pH imbalance may also be the cause of the deficiencies in the first place. pH in soil is best in the range of 6 up to 7.5, and in a Hydroponic system it?s best at 5.2-5.8.

leaves look burnt from the lights? not sure though...

this might sound dumb but if you put your hand under the lamps where the canopy of the plants are,...does it burn your hands?if not then its not the lights..if yes, that could be your prob...

No signs for of heat stress. You would see some canoeing in the leaves. They would curl inward to try trap in moisture.

Heat still could be an issue tho. I think your reservoir is getting to hot. A warm reservoir doesnt alow for enough oxygen in the water. You plants look over watered or lack of o2

As far as the burn your seeing. Has the ph been out of wack? that looks to me like a multi lock out. Could also be to high ppm but to me i would lean on the a ph imbalance. It doenst talk long to ph imbalance to show.

heat issues.......

In the growfaq, it said ideal hydro ph is 5.2-5.8.He said his was 5.8-6. I had my water ph off by a few degrees(it was 7.0 and I grow in soil) and it caused nute lockout.

If the problem was that the light was too close you would notice that the top of the plants would be showing most of the stress.

The burn tips is a dead give away for ph imbalance and or too high ppms.

To keep the res cool just use some 20 oz bottles. Fill them about 80% full and freeze like 6 of them. Then you can just rotae them as you check your plant.

Keep and on eye on the ppms and ph.

I think he is fine withph

not trying to troll, but ph is the first thing I always check....then everytrhing starts from there

You may be right.Odd, the differing info.You'd think they could agree across the board on it,lol.

Dr. Greenhorn said:

Click to expand...

not a prob. stoney.....everyone has thier own ways....that's whats so great about this forum......I learn something new everyday!! peace everyone!

Yea i believe 5.8 is good ph for him to use but i dont believe that he hasnt let it slip. Dwc has know for bouncing. He also hasnt mentioned a ppm. Which could very well be the problem.

Either way hes gonna have to cool his hps in the long run.

The begining signs of heat stress are white spots that look like you have spilled bleach on it or something. The rusty color you see in the pics are signs of unstable ph and or too high ppm. (lock out)

flipsidesw said:

Yea i believe 5.8 is good ph for him to use but i dont believe that he hasnt let it slip. Dwc has know for bouncing. He also hasnt mentioned a ppm. Which could very well be the problem.

Either way hes gonna have to cool his hps in the long run.

The begining signs of heat stress are white spots that look like you have spilled bleach on it or something. The rusty color you see in the pics are signs of unstable ph and or too high ppm. (lock out)

Click to expand...

Thanks so much guys for the help!

I have been testing the PH twice daily (morning and night since a week old) as I had read elsewhere that the dwc method can have fairly quick and dramatic PH changes. The PH has ever only left the 5.8-6 zone (went to 6. in the very beginning when I first began to add my nute mix.

I try to keep the ppm measurement around 800 max as this is my first plant cycle.

As for the Heat, there is about a good foot of cool/pleasant air above the plant tops before the heat of lamp can be felt.

The small yellow patches appear to be on the lower leaves but also randomly scattered on the sativas, but the indica seems to have the main issue on the older leaves. the older leaves are also dark green and lack elascticty. So magnesium issue might make sense here?

As for the sativas, they are in the same container which is 36" by 18" and they are spilt with a divider which breaks above the root line they cant tanlge so water and air flows around the entire container without the roots being able to get tangled.

i think the plants have alot of oxygen (bc the sativa contianer has a 60 gal double outlet air pump with 8 air stones on the bottom of the container. Indica as 1 20 gal pump with 3 air stones) and all the roots are soft, white and seem to be still growing well.

The main stems are very green with small white hairs and seems very strong on both plants. The smaller stems also seem strong and healthy and all plants have lots of new bright green leaf buds still growing.


The temp in the room is around 90 degrees, but has fairly high humidity (i live in a humid area) and the fan blows air right through the plants and below the lamp out of the door. so it doenst feel like 90.


I decided to completely flush each container with water and wipe of any excess minerals. I gently washed each plants roots with fresh water also before re-filling the containers and putting below 600ppm of nutrients.

I also raised the light by a foot and managed to get the temp to 78 by keeping windows open.

Re-tested Hp and set each container to 5.6 and moved plants slightly out of direct light from the hps.


Gonna go check on them in around mid day.



I really wanna find out whats causing this before my widow and black pearl come nxt week hope this works

thanks again guys!

Do you know which solution your ppm meter is calibrated to? .5 or .7