Can you help me diagnose these brown stripes right below canopy level?

Could you help me diagnose what might be going on with my plant? I just doubled the light intensity the other day so I'm thinking it may be a light burn but also it doesn't look like all the symptoms of a light burn. I'm talking about the brown spots, not the yellowing on the serrated edges on the leaves right below. I always get those and even though I think it's potassium deficiency, I couldn't find a solution to those. They come and go, but these brown stripes, I am seeing them for the first time.

I'm thinking what I've changed recently but to be honest, not much, just released a couple of lady bugs which I don't think would cause issues like these, doubled the light intensity the other day (Photon app was reading about 350 PPFD and suggested intensity was around 550 PPFD at 20/4 cycle. I watered them with plain water yesterday and I was planning to water again with fish hydrolysate tomorrow. I give them about %5 water of the total soil volume every 3rd day.

This is my soil composition;

-Coconut Coir,
-Organic Compost,
-Aged Bark Fines,
-Perlite,
-Diatomite,
-Feather Meal,
-Fish Bone Meal,
-Crab meal,
-Gypsum

In addition to these I've been top feeding with earthworm castings and Down to Earth Bio-Live as well as some fish hydrolysate but recently cut down the amendments due to a suggestion that I might be providing too much.

Any suggestions would be appreciated to correct this issue. Thanks!

Nute burn.

Phytoplankton said:

Nute burn.

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Thank you, I've never seen nutrient burn like this and looking at the lower leaves I always thought I was on the low side of nutrient content in the soil since they're also growing very slow, compared to my previous salt based grows. I'm super confused. I'll upload more general shot photos of the plants tomorrow (lights off right now). I hope I can save them, I've spent 9 weeks vegetating these and was thinking about switching to flowering, even though they're no where near how big I wanted them to be.

Another treating coco like soil.........it never works.

MickFoster said:

Another treating coco like soil.........it never works.

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Thanks for taking time to reply, I appreciate it. If you think I'm doing something wrong, would you mind elaborating a little bit, so I don't do it anymore instead of just saying "the thing that you're doing wrong and not aware that you're doing wrong never works"? The soil mix I purchased literally says "living soil" on the package so I treat it like soil. What should I do?

How much coco is in your mix?
Did you add in the coco, or was it pre-mixed with the compost?

MickFoster said:

How much coco is in your mix?
Did you add in the coco, or was it pre-mixed with the compost?

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I initially purchased this mix;


Then I started getting chlorosis and people suggested my plants were starving so I changed from distilled water to bottled drinking water (6.5 pH, 25ppm) and also added Bio-Live and quality local worm castings into the mixture. This took care of the chlorosis but slow growth kept going. In my first salt based grow (Ocean Forest + DynoGro) at week 8 I was struggling with controlling the growth speed so in comparison this felt super slow so I thought I'd need some quick release nutrients so I went ahead and bought some quality organic fish hydrolysate and applied about 1 teaspoon per gallon and fed them once. Since then I did 3 more watering (%5 total of total volume) with just plain water.

-I don't have a grow tent yet, so I'm in the closet and in order to create a dark period (4 hours only) I close the closet so air circulation drops
-I've been told I don't need to pH my water since living soil buffers it. I only have a TDS pen and currently using Brita filtered tap water that is aerated 24 hours to get rid of chlorine which tests around 60ppm with my TDS pen (500ppm scale). Local hydro shop says city water has 7.5 pH and local water report says no chloramines in the water, just chlorine.

Could any of these be the culprit?

I'm really confused and I'm willing to stop the organic/living soil attempt and start using salt based nutrients again, if that's what I'm doing wrong. I don't think my mixture is considered a coco/perlite grow since there is compost and amendments baked in it.

Attaching some more photos.

I'm not sure whats going on but this may help you.. Or add to the confusion!
Adjusting the Cation Exchange Capacity in Coco – Nature's Gateway (hamanol.com)

HydoDan said:

I'm not sure whats going on but this may help you.. Or add to the confusion!
Adjusting the Cation Exchange Capacity in Coco – Nature's Gateway (hamanol.com)

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Thank you, I am a little confused why people think I'm growing in coco though. Coco just replaced the sphagnum peat in this mixture, the rest (compost and amendments) are the same as a living soil recipe. Doesn't that make it a soil grow? Am I mistaken to assume this?

Light burn.

I'm with @StoneDHedgE on the light-burn angle.

What is your RH? Low RH, hot soil, and strong lights together will do that to a plant.

chamenon said:

I initially purchased this mix;

G-Force High Porosity — Dirtcraft Living Soils

www.dirtcraftorganics.com

Then I started getting chlorosis and people suggested my plants were starving so I changed from distilled water to bottled drinking water (6.5 pH, 25ppm) and also added Bio-Live and quality local worm castings into the mixture. This took care of the chlorosis but slow growth kept going. In my first salt based grow (Ocean Forest + DynoGro) at week 8 I was struggling with controlling the growth speed so in comparison this felt super slow so I thought I'd need some quick release nutrients so I went ahead and bought some quality organic fish hydrolysate and applied about 1 teaspoon per gallon and fed them once. Since then I did 3 more watering (%5 total of total volume) with just plain water.

-I don't have a grow tent yet, so I'm in the closet and in order to create a dark period (4 hours only) I close the closet so air circulation drops
-I've been told I don't need to pH my water since living soil buffers it. I only have a TDS pen and currently using Brita filtered tap water that is aerated 24 hours to get rid of chlorine which tests around 60ppm with my TDS pen (500ppm scale). Local hydro shop says city water has 7.5 pH and local water report says no chloramines in the water, just chlorine.

Could any of these be the culprit?

I'm really confused and I'm willing to stop the organic/living soil attempt and start using salt based nutrients again, if that's what I'm doing wrong. I don't think my mixture is considered a coco/perlite grow since there is compost and amendments baked in it.

Attaching some more photos.

View attachment 5343990View attachment 5343987View attachment 5343991View attachment 5343989

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This my 2¢ and just take it as such.

First , “ boutique “ soil blends always promise more than they give - most retail bagged medium ( RTU ready to use ) such as FFOF can and does work for container grows all by itself . On tap water .

No bottled water ( which doesn’t make sense ) or other “ special “ water sources. That browning looks like a PH issue. Your boutique mix probably exhausted the gypsum buffering in it. I run 7.6 ph California Tap right into the ocean forest - no PHing needed. The Oyster shell amendments carry plant for weeks without much decay.

I did a little sleuthing on your mix and it is very general on ingredients- No real NPK listed. There are more well rounded potting mixes out there instead of this. BTW “ aged bark fines “ is - Sawdust.

Build a Soil offers good blends but locally - Fox Farm Ocean Forest / Happy Frog / Receipe 420 / Dr. Earth and a host of other bagged soils would be better.

As far as water - you water your grass with Tap - you give the dog same water - other plants grow on it. There is too much broscience concerning “ gas off “ of chlorine - believe it or not plants use chlorine and there are elements in all water that will never come out ( microplastics / etc. )

I literally made a thread about simple container grows in FFOF.

Budzbuddha said:

This my 2¢ and just take it as such.

First , “ boutique “ soil blends always promise more than they give - most retail bagged medium ( RTU ready to use ) such as FFOF can and does work for container grows all by itself . On tap water .

No bottled water ( which doesn’t make sense ) or other “ special “ water sources. That browning looks like a PH issue. Your boutique mix probably exhausted the gypsum buffering in it. I run 7.6 ph California Tap right into the ocean forest - no PHing needed. The Oyster shell amendments carry plant for weeks without much decay.

I did a little sleuthing on your mix and it is very general on ingredients- No real NPK listed. There are more well rounded potting mixes out there instead of this. BTW “ aged bark fines “ is - Sawdust.

Build a Soil offers good blends but locally - Fox Farm Ocean Forest / Happy Frog / Receipe 420 / Dr. Earth and a host of other bagged soils would be better.

As far as water - you water your grass with Tap - you give the dog same water - other plants grow on it. There is too much broscience concerning “ gas off “ of chlorine - believe it or not plants use chlorine and there are elements in all water that will never come out ( microplastics / etc. )

I literally made a thread about simple container grows in FFOF.

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Thanks for taking time to share your opinions. I REALLY appreciate that you took time to look at the soil mix I'm using. I don't want to blame the soil mix but I also tried a lot of things and compared to my first grow with Ocean Forest, this feels like a pain in the back. When I was doing Ocean Forest, I only had single bottle DynoGro nutes, General Hydroponics pH testing kit, and tap water and I had zero problems. I purchased a pH pen today and trying to learn how to maintain it before using it for the first time.

I'll dive into your FFOF thread but may I quickly ask a couple of things;

-I always though Oyster Shell powder raises pH? Why do you prefer using that when your tap water pH is already high? I have down to earth oyster shell powder and used it once very sparingly because I'm afraid it's even going to take the soil pH even higher. Should I top dress some Oyster Shell powder?

-Can I substitute Dr. Earth 5-5-5 with Bio-Live (5-4-2) that I already have?

-In your reply here you suggest you don't pH your water but in the thread you indicate that the only thing needs to be done is to pH the water.
Would good ol' general hydroponics pH up and pH down be detrimental to the soil microbiology? Should I pay more for "microbe safe" pH adjusters or do you think that's also giving even more money to bro science? (which I feel like I've fell for badly)

Thank you again, really!

GenericEnigma said:

I'm with @StoneDHedgE on the light-burn angle.

What is your RH? Low RH, hot soil, and strong lights together will do that to a plant.

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I may have recently slacked on filling the humidifier and doubled the light intensity which corresponds to development of these brown spots. Since then I've been keeping RH around %55 at around 70-75F and reverted back the light intensity change. Brown spots stopped developing, so that may have been it. Thank you for the suggestion, I appreciate it!

chamenon said:

Thanks for taking time to share your opinions. I REALLY appreciate that you took time to look at the soil mix I'm using. I don't want to blame the soil mix but I also tried a lot of things and compared to my first grow with Ocean Forest, this feels like a pain in the back. When I was doing Ocean Forest, I only had single bottle DynoGro nutes, General Hydroponics pH testing kit, and tap water and I had zero problems. I purchased a pH pen today and trying to learn how to maintain it before using it for the first time.

I'll dive into your FFOF thread but may I quickly ask a couple of things;

-I always though Oyster Shell powder raises pH? Why do you prefer using that when your tap water pH is already high? I have down to earth oyster shell powder and used it once very sparingly because I'm afraid it's even going to take the soil pH even higher. Should I top dress some Oyster Shell powder?

-Can I substitute Dr. Earth 5-5-5 with Bio-Live (5-4-2) that I already have?

-In your reply here you suggest you don't pH your water but in the thread you indicate that the only thing needs to be done is to pH the water.
Would good ol' general hydroponics pH up and pH down be detrimental to the soil microbiology? Should I pay more for "microbe safe" pH adjusters or do you think that's also giving even more money to bro science? (which I feel like I've fell for badly)

Thank you again, really!

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Bio-live is a very good product. Although I tend to use FFOF mostly for a base medium - there are other fine brands to use right out of bag.
DynaGro was kind of a PIA as it wasn’t very shelf stable and it would fall out of solution - with bits rattling around at bottom of bottle. Dry fertilizer works better for me - 3 gallon container / 2 tablespoons of Dry fertilizer and water. That feed will begin to breakdown over the next couple weeks , then I do again 2 weeks later .

You have the choice of either Topdressing more FFOF or using Bio-live.
Matter of fact , you can take a cup of FFOF soil placed in a cheesecloth bag , aerate it in water and end up with a solid soil tea / drench.
Another pretty simple “ feed “ option …. PLUS , that “ aerated “ soil can be re-used in solo cup germinations - no waste.

GL

I say try a simpler approach to your container grows - let the medium do the initial feed upfront.

Budzbuddha said:

Bio-live is a very good product. Although I tend to use FFOF mostly for a base medium - there are other fine brands to use right out of bag.
DynaGro was kind of a PIA as it wasn’t very shelf stable and it would fall out of solution - with bits rattling around at bottom of bottle. Dry fertilizer works better for me - 3 gallon container / 2 tablespoons of Dry fertilizer and water. That feed will begin to breakdown over the next couple weeks , then I do again 2 weeks later .

You have the choice of either Topdressing more FFOF or using Bio-live.
Matter of fact , you can take a cup of FFOF soil placed in a cheesecloth bag , aerate it in water and end up with a solid soil tea / drench.
Another pretty simple “ feed “ option …. PLUS , that “ aerated “ soil can be re-used in solo cup germinations - no waste.

GL

I say try a simpler approach to your container grows - let the medium do the initial feed upfront.

Click to expand...

Thanks again! I've been doing some aerated compost teas with worm castings, Bio-Live and fish hydrolysate, I also used these three for top dressing and watering every other week or so. Nothing seem to work so far. Although I was using Bio-Live in teaspoon measurements not tablespoons, because I didn't want to overfertilize. Let me try that 2 tablespoons Bio-Live approach. I think I'll have to ditch the soil I'm using and transplant them to bigger pots with tried and true FFOF mix as well. I'll report back once I do that because I really can't think of anything else to try. It can't be the genetics because I've two completely distinct genetics (one sativa one indica) and they both seem to not grow at all (but on the indica one, leaves look much healthier)

Thanks again, I really appreciate you taking time to share your knowledge. I hope I'll come back with a more promising update.

chamenon said:

Thanks again! I've been doing some aerated compost teas with worm castings, Bio-Live and fish hydrolysate, I also used these three for top dressing and watering every other week or so. Nothing seem to work so far. Although I was using Bio-Live in teaspoon measurements not tablespoons, because I didn't want to overfertilize. Let me try that 2 tablespoons Bio-Live approach. I think I'll have to ditch the soil I'm using and transplant them to bigger pots with tried and true FFOF mix as well. I'll report back once I do that because I really can't think of anything else to try. It can't be the genetics because I've two completely distinct genetics (one sativa one indica) and they both seem to not grow at all (but on the indica one, leaves look much healthier)

Thanks again, I really appreciate you taking time to share your knowledge. I hope I'll come back with a more promising update.

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I’m sure you will find the method that fits your grow - you will be fine.

Remember …. It’s just a plant.

I think pHing is the problem.

SnidleyBluntash said:

I think pHing is the problem.

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Just checked the tap water pH. It's 7.4 right out of tap, the tap water I let sit for about 48 hours reads 6.9 pH. I'll get some pH down or something like that to make sure it's between 6 to 6.5 pH. But I'm not sure, 7 pH shouldn't create this much of a problem. I really don't know, maybe it's best to just switch these to flowering and start with FFOF from scratch.

5% of soil volume every 3 days for plants 9 weeks into veg seems very little.

Dry soil often leads to nutrient lockout/deficiencies/toxicities, particularly when increasing light strength.