• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

can i go organic next year for $250 or less?

SenorBrownWater

Well-Known Member
i want to dabble in organics on my outdoor garden next year...
i have always used synthetics...and thought little of organics,because i was under the impression that organics are expensive...
so are they?
could organically feed a 15 plants garden in 100 gallon pots for around $250

i have used jack's and maxsea in the past...so organics seem freaky and odd to me....

also i was under the impression that super soil is a gimmick..to help a popular seed producer sell seeds...amiright? or is that misinfo
 

Nutes and Nugs

Well-Known Member
My veggy garden is all organic. It took years to build the soil from free stuff like grass clippings and leafs, kitchen scraps ect.
I rototill it in spring and add some lawn clippings each week and it grows wonderful plants pretty much all for free.
Can you just use the soil instead of the 100 gal pots?
 

chusett

Well-Known Member
Yeah cause its just the summer. You should be fine. I use botanicare.. spend around 180... on bloom, grow, karma and sweet.
 

SenorBrownWater

Well-Known Member
@ nutes
soil is hard clay..and is super acidic...so i really need the pots...
i use good (expensive) bagged soil (happy frog,ffof,and roots) its not counted in the nute budget

@chusett ...i think botanicare grow and bloom are not fully organic...i put of the girls out in spring under supplemental lighting...
 

chusett

Well-Known Member
ahh.. for soil. I guess AN and EJ are good.. but my botanicare is organic.. its only like 2 that are not fully organic.. they sell much cheaper. Difference is one is Pure blend line one is Pro..
 

farmerjoe420

Well-Known Member
if i were you i would amend your soil with lime and azomite and make yourself a good compost tea brewer for guano and worm tea. guano and worm castings are relatively cheap compared to bottled nutes and the brewer would cost about $150 to $200 to build but would last a long time. look up harvard universiy compost tea brewer its bad ass and would definitely be my first choice. the pump they use is by pondmaster.
 

SenorBrownWater

Well-Known Member
if i were you i would amend your soil with lime and azomite and make yourself a good compost tea brewer for guano and worm tea. guano and worm castings are relatively cheap compared to bottled nutes and the brewer would cost about $150 to $200 to build but would last a long time. look up harvard universiy compost tea brewer its bad ass and would definitely be my first choice. the pump they use is by pondmaster.
http://www.uos.harvard.edu/fmo/landscape/organiclandscaping/build_tea_brewer.pdf
i think i am going to make one with a 55 gallon barrel.
any idea how much the pump will cost?
 

dank smoker420

Well-Known Member
organic is pretty easy. super soil if the way to go if you do not want to add nutes. the super nutes of the super soil will be enough for the plant atleast till the last weeks of flowering depending on how long they go. and the super soil uses amendments that you can also use in your compost teas. you can go with organic soil and compost teas to feed everytime. but making compost tea can be a pain sometimes since you need to clean the bucket and what not.
 

Vindicated

Well-Known Member
I used to spend $300 per grow just on nutrients, then I learned about organics, and now I feel really stupid for falling into the cannabis nutrient marketing. The first thing I did to reduce cost was compare a bunch of different soils. I tested Roots Organic, Fox Farm Ocean Forest, Miracle Grow Organic, Super Soil (made by Scotts, not Sub), Earth Gro, Kellogg Patio Plus, Mushroom Compost, Coir, Me's Mix, Promix, Sunshine #4, and a few other local potting soil brands and blends that I made up myself (like peat + worm castings, coir + castings, etc).

In my opinion Roots Organic was the best, but it was also the most expensive at $30 a bag. The second best performing potting soil was Kellogg Patio Plus at $4 a bag. The rest did pretty good, except for Promix that I picked up at Walgreens. I didn't like the promix at all. Also, by harvest, the between Roots Organic and Kellogg Patio Plus wasn't really that big and often times the weather and strain had more to do with growth than the soil. Although Roots Organic did have coc coir which I love, so water didn't drain as fast, and it was broken up in smaller chucks, so it felt lighter and fluffier. However, Kellogg Patio Plus was ORMI certified organic, had guano, castings, mushroom compost, and tons of beneficial organisms. The only thing I didn't care about the Kellogg Patio Plus was the bark. I wish it would have been cut up more to make it more fluffy, but in the end it didn't seem to matter much.

I've done grows directly in the dirt (and amending the soil based on the results of a soil test) and I've also grown in containers as well as in raised beds. Between all three methods, I've found raised beds 6" to 12" deep and placed directly on the ground did the best. The roots are able to go past the raised bed's bottom, so you get all the benefits of planting directly in the ground, but you don't have to dig, or amend the soil in anyway because the first 6" provides all the nutrients. Right now I even have some really large Sativas growing in pure Kellogg Patio Plus potting soil that I started back in march. i haven't needed to fertilizer yet and it's almost September. To me, that speaks volumes.

As for nutrients, I like Alaska Fish Emultions (5-1-1) paired with Alaska MorBloom (0-10-10), however being that fish have heavy metals (like many synthetic fertilizers) I decided to stop using them. It also disappointed me that Alaska MorBloom is no longer certified organic. It used to be several years ago, so I don't know if they changed formulas or if they simply stopped paying for ORMI certification. I also tried a bunch of different synthetic hydroponic nutrients (from Advanced Nutrients to GH and even Veg+Bloom), but I've always hated the weekly feedings, the constant ph adjusting, and the need to "dial it in." After joining my local community garden, I learned from people who were growing roses, corn, tulips, and so many other types of flowers that they all really liked Kellogg's fertilizers because they were cheap. Now these people never heard of the hydroponic stuff and they didn't grow cannabis, but they did know how to grow. It also didn't hurt that I already loved the Patio Plus potting soil, so when I seen that Kellogg made a fertilizer at $8 for a 4 lb bag, I went for it, and quickly fell in love with it.

At first, I wasn't sure which version of Kellogg Fertilizer to use so I tried their version for tomatoes, flowers, and their all purpose mix. It took me about three years to figure out that the all purpose one was the best one for me. I only have to apply it 2-3 times a year and it works really good. It has kelp meal, feather meal, bone meal, alfalfa meal, humic acid, mycros, and tons of other goodies that i wanted in a fertilizer. When you pair this with the soil you now have worm castings, guano, and mushroom compost. I also love that I don't need to add cal/mg or lime. It works as-is without anything extra and I can use unfiltered water which when I measured it, had a pH of 8.0 to 8.1.

To fill a 3'x'3x6" raised bed with Kellogg Patio Plus it cost me around $30, then figure another $8-$10 for fertilizer, another $6-$8 for wood to build the raised bed, and IDK how much for water, but it's not much especially that I've recently upgraded to a soaker hose and a timer.

The only other things that I would add is Miracle Grow Water Storing Crystals and maybe include a budget for Diatomaceous Earth ($10), Yucca Extract ($8; use in place of dish soap), horticultural oil like neem or sesame oil ($10-$20), and an organic insecticidal soap like Safer 3-in-1 or Rose Rx ($6-$10).
 

Vindicated

Well-Known Member
To build and fill 15 raised beds will put you over budget, so you might want to check your local landscappers supply and buy potting soil by the yard. Then instead of building lots 3'x'3 raised beds out of lumber like I did, build one or two really long beds out of brick (the big gray ones are cheap). You can just stack them since your only going 1-2 bricks high.
 

Vindicated

Well-Known Member
You can also grow green manures to help cut down on the amount of fertilization needed. Good crops to grow would be snow peas, soy, or any type of legumes. Do this during the winter, then till the crop into your soil. Legumes are great because unlike say cannabis, legumes can make it's own nitrogen from the air. When you till it into the ground, your capturing all that nitrogen and allowing it to naturally compost until spring, when your cannabis crop can take full advantage of it.

Last thing, if you plan on growing for a lot of years, read up on Hugelkultur. It requires digging a large pit and filling it with big wood logs and it takes about a year for the garden to be fully active, but when it does, you won't need to water or feed for 10-20 years.
 

farmerjoe420

Well-Known Member
http://www.uos.harvard.edu/fmo/landscape/organiclandscaping/build_tea_brewer.pdf
i think i am going to make one with a 55 gallon barrel.
any idea how much the pump will cost?


thats the brewer. that thing is bad ass and for the money you cant beat it. this place has the pump you need for $150, free shipping. place is legit, ive actually been to there retail store. the pump brand you want is by pondmaster.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=webb's water gardens &source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http://www.webbsonline.com/&ei=kus8ULPwNcHy6wHbvICACg&usg=AFQjCNGAkKxEjXIZTi85sNoKv4-wMxYIkw
 

SenorBrownWater

Well-Known Member
wow vinny... thank for the help!

i so wish i could grow in the ground....
i have hard clay soil that is very acidic
thats why i am in smart pots...
now i use a mix of amended top soil (delivered from a landscaping place) with the expensive soils....
i like your plan..and i think i will try it next year...
are you doing a journal?
 

C3Pgro

Active Member
This is usually what I am planning to use for my organic grow next spring. I think the miracle gro and subcultures might be straying from organic but I try and keep it natural. Now that I look at this Im probably going to need more soil. I will mix in a bit of the guano and make a weak tea during flowering and stop 2-3 weeks before harvest.

6kg Earth worm castings

1x 30L bag vegetable compost

4x 30L bags of black earth

1x 60L bag of miraclegro with trace elements .20-.20-.20 I think, I couldnt resist the trace elements even though I dislike miraclegro brand

2.2kg welcome harvest farm Bat guano 2-26-0

200g General hydroponics Subculture A and B mycrorize an
d beneficial bacteria
 

SenorBrownWater

Well-Known Member
so i just read another thread that said there is no proof compost teas do any good ...is that true?
i feel so out of my element....:dunce:
 
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