Calling all chemists and botanists! Let's put an end to overpriced nutes!

I may have misspoken, perhaps it was Miracle Grow, BUT...

I direct you to paragraph 2. I'm sure you can read between the lines- whose discretion?

Manufacturers are required to provide a Material Data Sheet (MSDS) for each hazardous material purchased by PSU.
The sheets must provide information on manufacturers name and contact information, hazardous ingredients/identity information,
physical/chemical characteristics, fire and explosion hazard data, reactivity data, health hazard data, safe handling and use, and control
measures. Other information that may be provided includes first aid measures, disposal considerations, transport information, and
regulatory information. Often the data is presented in technical terms that may require interpretation by the reader. The following should help in interpreting the information provided.

Hazardous ingredients:
Not all ingredients may be listed if they are considered non-hazardous, are a minor component, or are considered a trade secret (trade secret material must be released to a physician if a person is exposed and injured).

PetFlora said:

I may have misspoken, perhaps it was Miracle Grow, BUT...

I direct you to paragraph 2. I'm sure you can read between the lines- whose discretion?

Manufacturers are required to provide a Material Data Sheet (MSDS) for each hazardous material purchased by PSU.
The sheets must provide information on manufacturers name and contact information, hazardous ingredients/identity information,
physical/chemical characteristics, fire and explosion hazard data, reactivity data, health hazard data, safe handling and use, and control
measures. Other information that may be provided includes first aid measures, disposal considerations, transport information, and
regulatory information. Often the data is presented in technical terms that may require interpretation by the reader. The following should help in interpreting the information provided.

Hazardous ingredients:
Not all ingredients may be listed if they are considered non-hazardous, are a minor component, or are considered a trade secret (trade secret material must be released to a physician if a person is exposed and injured).

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On my job I'm in charge of hundreds of MSDS's. Even harmless substances have to have an MSDS. Just because it has one does not mean that it's dangerous. I don't know what MG has in it but I would worry too much. Plants do not uptake organic compounds and just because there are compounds in the soil does not mean that the plant will positively uptake it. We're talking about a process of several chemical change of states too. Using an antiperspirant is a lot worse - not to mention breathing the air with a dozen chem-trails overhead. I swear I can taste the metal when that happens.

PetFlora said:

Not to beat a dead horse, but let's use municipal water as an example. It is only tested for ~ 32 pollutants, so when they tell us it's safe to drink they are overlooking a lot of harmful stuff- but they can point to the analysis and say see for yourself

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And we know how much we can trust our government to protect us, right? Talk about insanity, Anchorage, Alaska (where I live) has the BEST drinking water in the world. As it comes out of Eklutna lake it is already far more pure than the highest government standards, but the way the laws are written they have to *remove* a certain amount of organic compounds, so the muni has to *buy* fish heads and guts to put into the water supply - so they can REMOVE it. I'm of the opinion that whatever the government says, I just go with the opposite. Safe = Danger; Dangerous = Safe.

Not being funny but if i was going to make it why would i not go organic. I buy the chemicals because it's easier if that become more Difficult i would have to compare the time that it takes to the time organics takes, if i was to choose my home made chemical product i would start to question my sanity.

If Sweet actually helps by adding it to an otherwise proper nute mix, and if it is just simply sugar water, what the heck, mix up a batch every nute change. I was hoping that someone who really understands what is in this stuff would post a breakdown of the mixture. Maybe it really is a difficult thing to make and is worth $64 a gallon. But I doubt it.

I will be trying a grow without it soon as a test. So far my biggest discovery from RIU has been Jack's, this single change is saving me money and has made growing easier. I also stopped adding SuperThrive and have not seen any difference. Keeping the temps down has helped also. So, yeah, maybe asking for help with making additives was barking up the wrong tree.

Here how is this for a start

cane sugar, citric acid, ascorbic acid (vitamin C), thiamine, riboflavin, pyridoxine, niacin, glycine, alanine, valine, leucine, isoleucine, serine, theronine, aspartic acid, glutamic acid, asparagine, glutamine, lysine, argiine, histidine, cysteine, cystine, methionine, proline, phenylalanine, tyrosine, tryptophan, epsom salt, ferrous sulfate, agrimineral 76 micro complex (silica).

this was taken fom a guy who posted what the ingredients were on an older bottle. If we assume that it follows the basic ingredienlisting t paradigm we can infer that it is mostly cane sugar. More research into grow journals from the past indicates molasses works just as we'll as a substitute, but you won't get the iron or silica from it I do not think, and I don't know what all those amino acids do for a plant.

Db

After reading the label and running the numbers this is what I came up with:

Formula to make 1 Gallon of Sweet


4.3 grams Cane Sugar
151 grams Epsom Salt (100% Magnesium Sulfate)

Add Cane Sugar to 2 cups of water and heat, stirring until completely dissolved. Allow to cool.

In a separate pan add the Epsom Salt to 2 cups of water and heat, stirring until completely dissolved. Allow to cool.

Pour both solutions into a 1 gallon container and add water until it makes 1 gallon. Shake until mixed.

Shake well before using.

This is derived from total weight of the gallon = 4,310 g x .001 (.1%) Cane Sugar = 4.31 g
and 4,310 g x .035 (3.5%) Magnesium Sulfate = 150.85 g


The Epsom Salt was about $2 in Walmart, near the pharmacy. I'll try making a batch as soon as possible and see how it works. These are the only ingredients listed on the label so I think it will be an exact substitute for Sweet.

I need to pick up a small scale to weigh the ingredients and will measure them out with measuring spoons to convert the formula to units that are easier to use. And then of course there needs to be a test, but this sure looks like the right solution.

420circuit said:

After reading the label and running the numbers this is what I came up with:

Formula to make 1 Gallon of Sweet


4.3 grams Cane Sugar
151 grams Epsom Salt (100% Magnesium Sulfate)

Add Cane Sugar to 2 cups of water and heat, stirring until completely dissolved. Allow to cool.

In a separate pan add the Epsom Salt to 2 cups of water and heat, stirring until completely dissolved. Allow to cool.

Pour both solutions into a 1 gallon container and add water until it makes 1 gallon. Shake until mixed.

Shake well before using.

This is derived from total weight of the gallon = 4,310 g x .001 (.1%) Cane Sugar = 4.31 g
and 4,310 g x .035 (3.5%) Magnesium Sulfate = 150.85 g

View attachment 2774390View attachment 2774392
The Epsom Salt was about $2 in Walmart, near the pharmacy. I'll try making a batch as soon as possible and see how it works. These are the only ingredients listed on the label so I think it will be an exact substitute for Sweet.

I need to pick up a small scale to weigh the ingredients and will measure them out with measuring spoons to convert the formula to units that are easier to use. And then of course there needs to be a test, but this sure looks like the right solution.

Click to expand...

Cool man, you have sweet left? I would LOVE to see a side by side of sweet and this Mix. I bet no difference in plant structure.

There is a lot of info online about using Epsom Salt on plants, flowers, yards to improve plant health and vigor, so this formula makes sense to add to a balanced set of nutrients. I got some fulvic and humic acid solutions that I'd like to look into also, this stuff seems to be a growth enhancer, affecting the plants', I dunno, 'metabolic rate'(?) the way and speed that it grows. Keep in mind that I do not have any formal education in this stuff, just feeling my way forward in the dark and looking for stuff that works. Usually, when I post something on RIU I get smart ass replies from people claiming to be rocket scientists who deride me for being stupid, which never gets old, but these 'experts' never offer solutions. It would be great if someone who actually did study in this field would contribute something meaningful. Hey, it could happen. In the meantime I feel confident that this formula for Sweet will work fine, so will take some pics of the mixing process and dump it into hydro reservoir at the next nute change, since I just ran out of Sweet.

Looking into a replacement for Aquashield, but this one is may take more time due to competition with other projects. If anyone has any ideas please feel free to post! If you want to call me stupid, please hold off, that has already been done, so let's move forward.

So this is kind of a vindication of what Jondamon said earlier and what uncle ben has been bitching about apparently for quite a few years now starting with superthrive. $64.00 for a bottle of simple syrup and amino acids. I understand how R&D companies work, and this is the only way they can make a profit. They spend the money to research 12 products, get 1 that looks like it might be something so they throw that product to market with a price that supports the r&d of all 12. But still, its $64.00 for a gallon of cool aid.

DB

420circuit said:

There is a lot of info online about using Epsom Salt on plants, flowers, yards to improve plant health and vigor, so this formula makes sense to add to a balanced set of nutrients. I got some fulvic and humic acid solutions that I'd like to look into also, this stuff seems to be a growth enhancer, affecting the plants', I dunno, 'metabolic rate'(?) the way and speed that it grows. Keep in mind that I do not have any formal education in this stuff, just feeling my way forward in the dark and looking for stuff that works. Usually, when I post something on RIU I get smart ass replies from people claiming to be rocket scientists who deride me for being stupid, which never gets old, but these 'experts' never offer solutions. It would be great if someone who actually did study in this field would contribute something meaningful. Hey, it could happen. In the meantime I feel confident that this formula for Sweet will work fine, so will take some pics of the mixing process and dump it into hydro reservoir at the next nute change, since I just ran out of Sweet.

Looking into a replacement for Aquashield, but this one is may take more time due to competition with other projects. If anyone has any ideas please feel free to post! If you want to call me stupid, please hold off, that has already been done, so let's move forward.

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Hey, as long as there are a few like minded folks around who WANT this place to be about growing better plants and not just pseudo-intellectual dick waving contests there may actually end up being some good info here. I like this place, i was welcomed warmly when i first came and taken in hand by someone who helped me to the best of their abilities. I don't know what happened in the year i left to change all that, and most of those folks are gone now, but as long as folks keep contributing, and keep trying to learn more through reasonable experimentation and posting results this place will be great.

DB

420circuit said:

There is a lot of info online about using Epsom Salt on plants, flowers, yards to improve plant health and vigor, so this formula makes sense to add to a balanced set of nutrients. I got some fulvic and humic acid solutions that I'd like to look into also, this stuff seems to be a growth enhancer, affecting the plants', I dunno, 'metabolic rate'(?) the way and speed that it grows. Keep in mind that I do not have any formal education in this stuff, just feeling my way forward in the dark and looking for stuff that works. Usually, when I post something on RIU I get smart ass replies from people claiming to be rocket scientists who deride me for being stupid, which never gets old, but these 'experts' never offer solutions. It would be great if someone who actually did study in this field would contribute something meaningful. Hey, it could happen. In the meantime I feel confident that this formula for Sweet will work fine, so will take some pics of the mixing process and dump it into hydro reservoir at the next nute change, since I just ran out of Sweet.

Looking into a replacement for Aquashield, but this one is may take more time due to competition with other projects. If anyone has any ideas please feel free to post! If you want to call me stupid, please hold off, that has already been done, so let's move forward.

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So the key is the ingreedient listing i think:

• Total Nitrogen (N): 0.02%, 0.02% Ammoniacal Nitrogen (AN)
• Available Phosphate (P2O5): 0.04%
• Soluble Potash (K2O): 0.01%

Derived from: Composted Poultry Litter

This looks like its a simple compost tea made from Chicken Manure compost.

420circuit said:

There is a lot of info online about using Epsom Salt on plants, flowers, yards to improve plant health and vigor, so this formula makes sense to add to a balanced set of nutrients. I got some fulvic and humic acid solutions that I'd like to look into also, this stuff seems to be a growth enhancer, affecting the plants', I dunno, 'metabolic rate'(?) the way and speed that it grows. Keep in mind that I do not have any formal education in this stuff, just feeling my way forward in the dark and looking for stuff that works. Usually, when I post something on RIU I get smart ass replies from people claiming to be rocket scientists who deride me for being stupid, which never gets old, but these 'experts' never offer solutions. It would be great if someone who actually did study in this field would contribute something meaningful. Hey, it could happen. In the meantime I feel confident that this formula for Sweet will work fine, so will take some pics of the mixing process and dump it into hydro reservoir at the next nute change, since I just ran out of Sweet.

Looking into a replacement for Aquashield, but this one is may take more time due to competition with other projects. If anyone has any ideas please feel free to post! If you want to call me stupid, please hold off, that has already been done, so let's move forward.

Click to expand...

Sub'd, curious to see your result with this. Hey, this is my first time running a single res in hydro, I have a cap ebb an flow setup. Water temp is sitting at 72F give or take a degree. I have H202, should I be using that? Or should I be using that Aquashield? Also that water temp,, do I need a chiller? or do you possibly have a suggestion for me? I have a couple aistones going in the res all the time too.

Made it like this...

[h=1]Formula to make 1 Gallon of Sweet[/h]
1 Teaspoon (4.3 grams) Cane Sugar
9 Tablespoons (151 grams) Epsom Salt (100% Magnesium Sulfate)

Add Cane Sugar and Epsom Salt to 4 cups of water and heat, stirring until completely dissolved. Allow to cool.

Pour solution into a 1 gallon container and add water until it makes 1 gallon. Shake until mixed.

Shake well before using.

View attachment 2775069The heating is needed to make it dissolve. I put into a clear vase to watch for the solids to precipitate and didn't see anything, but I only waited a short time. If you shake it before using it should be fine if some of the solids do settle to the bottom. Changed the water to a larger amount because there is quite a lot of Epsom Salt to dissolve and there is no reason to mix them separately. I'll use this with the next nute change and am quite confident that this is a fine substitute for the store bought product. As long as these ingredients are used and not some product with God-knows-what additives, like some sort of perfumed bath salt, you should be fine. The ingredients on the Epsom Salt must say 100% Magnesium Sulfate.

This post makes me feel good, like I am giving something back to the community. I am just a regular guy, coming up on 1 year of hydro mmj growing, making Rick Simpson Oil and a similar tincture to self treat brain cancer. Please use mmj with some common sense, let's keep it legal in Colorado and make it legal in the rest of the world.

budtoker0987 said:

Sub'd, curious to see your result with this. Hey, this is my first time running a single res in hydro, I have a cap ebb an flow setup. Water temp is sitting at 72F give or take a degree. I have H202, should I be using that? Or should I be using that Aquashield? Also that water temp,, do I need a chiller? or do you possibly have a suggestion for me? I have a couple aistones going in the res all the time too.

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Best places to look for methods for hydro is StinkBuds thread Harvest a Pound... and SuperStoner's thread, my 3 stages...

I have not used peroxide in my grow, currently I use Jack's hydroponic nutrients, which is working great. It is a 3 part powder that needs to be mixed, but it so much cheaper than the Botanicare stuff that I found detailed in those threads that it is worth the couple minutes to put it into jugs with water. My res sits on concrete so it stays pretty cool and I am changing it every couple weeks and the Jack's stays very clean, so no need for the peroxide or a chiller. In addition to Jack's I have been adding a little Sweet, some Aquashield and a little Pondzyme. In veg I add a micorrizal powder to stimulate root growth and just a small trace of Sweet to feed those little buggers. Peroxide kills the good and bad bugs so I don't mess with it because what I'm doing is working.
View attachment 2775114My second Northern Lights grow kind of took over the growing space so I have downsized and now grow fewer but larger plants. Also, the Blueberry strain has proven to be less stinky, so easier to keep the scent under control.
View attachment 2775122View attachment 2775123View attachment 2775124That plant gave me about 3 ounces of fine smelling buds. I cloned it and will keep one going as long as I can. I may have to shut down my grow op because of travel requirements at work, hope not but it may happen because I still have to support the family. AND the new gig requires piss testing, so I may have to store my harvests for quite a while. I had to stop taking the oil recently to prep for the upcoming test and now appreciate how much it was helping with pain management. The oil is far better than the pills from the drug store, at least for me.

420circuit said:

The oil is far better than the pills from the drug store, at least for me.

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Agreed 100%.

You ever use Hygrozyme? I think thats how you spell it.

Have not used Hygrozyme, used Botanicare and now Jack's. The advice to keep it simple is good. Just give the plants what they need and do no harm and they will produce. I find that if the res gets warm it needs to be changed before funk starts growing, like every week or 2. Low 80s is OK, cooler is better. If you hit 90 something has to change, either increased airflow, enclosed lights or AC.

420circuit said:

Have not used Hygrozyme, used Botanicare and now Jack's. The advice to keep it simple is good. Just give the plants what they need and do no harm and they will produce. I find that if the res gets warm it needs to be changed before funk starts growing, like every week or 2. Low 80s is OK, cooler is better. If you hit 90 something has to change, either increased airflow, enclosed lights or AC.

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Well thts refreshing to hear. Ppl were always telling me that 72+ was bad and that stuff will start getting nasty. So 70-75 WATER TEMP, is OK? If so, ill be just fine And ya the KISS way is how I wanna be doing things. I'm actually gonna run Lucas Formula with my new batch of 7 Fruity Cronic Juice that were transplanted to the 5 gallon planters mmm I think its about week two. Gotta check. buy I am new to hydro. So, there is there something LIKE H2o2 or Aquashield or something that I should be adding to my res to keep it nice and clean like ?

Does anyone know if Jacks can be purchased in UK?