CAL MAG question

Switched to RO this round. Bought some cal mag plus and added dosage reccommended at 5 ml/gal.
It brought the ppm from 12 to 500. Is this too much cal mag?

greengenius said:

Switched to RO this round. Bought some cal mag plus and added dosage reccommended at 5 ml/gal.
It brought the ppm from 12 to 500. Is this too much cal mag?

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i shoot for 100-150 ppm calmag but it really depends on the strain and the nutes your using. and to some degree the hydro system effeciency.

You need to understand that Cal-Mag is chiefly bought/used by tomato growers. Even the low end of tomato nutrients are typically around 300 ppm calcium and 75 to 100 ppm magnesium and during fruiting many incarese that to around at least 400 ppm calcium and 100 ppm magnesium.

With the R/O water I would use 1.25ml per gal. Then if you see some signs of a def then you can up it a bit. But I doubt you will. Also if you also use molasses then the cal-mag is not needed. The molasses takes its place.

QUOTE cowboylogic "Also if you also use molasses then the cal-mag is not needed. The molasses takes its place."

How is that?

Allegedly the most touted molasses for use is Black Strap molasses. One teaspoon of Black Strap molasses contains about 9% of the daily needs of an adult.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=118

The daily need is 1000 mg. That means each teaspoon contains 90 mg. Considering you want to add at least 90 mg/L for a 90 ppm boost that means adding one teaspoon per liter. Considering it takes 67 times as much Black Strap molasses to equal the amount of calcium in Cal-mag I question the statement that molasses takes its place. To actually add enough molasses to replace the calcium in cal-the Cal-mag calcium with the calcium from molasses would also add so much copper and Iron they would likely reach toxic levels. Yet alone the massive multiplication of bacteria that would likely drop the DO level down to around two or three ppm, maybe less.

Molasses? I don't think so

fatman7574 said:

QUOTE cowboylogic "Also if you also use molasses then the cal-mag is not needed. The molasses takes its place."

How is that?

Allegedly the most touted molasses for use is Black Strap molasses. One teaspoon of Black Strap molasses contains about 9% of the daily needs of an adult.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=118

The daily need is 1000 mg. That means each teaspoon contains 90 mg. Considering you want to add at least 90 mg/L for a 90 ppm boost that means adding one teaspoon per liter. Considering it takes 67 times as much Black Strap molasses to equal the amount of calcium in Cal-mag I question the statement that molasses takes its place. To actually add enough molasses to replace the calcium in cal-the Cal-mag calcium with the calcium from molasses would also add so much copper and Iron they would likely reach toxic levels. Yet alone the massive multiplication of bacteria that would likely drop the DO level down to around two or three ppm, maybe less.

Molasses? I don't think so

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Comparing a humans needs to a plants. Give me a break. 15ml Black Strap Molasses per gal or 3.78 liters is more than enough Calcium/Magnesium/Iron for any plant. Plus most plants suffer from a lack of potassium during flower. Although it may never show obvious signs of it. The molasses not only fills this void but also feeds the good guys in the soil. Thus helping the soil feed your plants. But if you want to keep spending your money on Cal-Mag, by all means do. But from 40+ yrs of in the horticultural field. I stand by my statement with complete confidence.
And by the way Fatman, how many mg. of calcium does G-13 Labs Royal Kush require?

I would give my experiences with cal mag but I'm afraid I'll get beat up by one of these guys! lol just kidding. I also use cal mag works great, I use at 1/2 dose of what label recomends per gal in hydro.

Metalarc Lemon said:

I would give my experiences with cal mag but I'm afraid I'll get beat up by one of these guys! lol just kidding. I also use cal mag works great, I use at 1/2 dose of what label recomends per gal in hydro.

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LOL, no worries. Cal-Mag does work just fine. I do not disagree with that. And you are right, 2.5 ml is about max. Follow the label and you will most likely regret it. My point is this. Molasses is just more economical than Cal-Mag. And from my experience much more effective, especialy in soil. But it still works just fine in hydro. Thats all.

You a funny man. Ha, Ha. You obviously did not look at the link before you started typing again. The link gave the average daily amount and showed what percentage of this is available in two teaspoons of molasses. This was only used to show the amount of soluble calcium available in two teasopoons as being approx 18 percent. Or nine percent in 1 teaspoon. This means each each spoon contains 90 mg. Adding one teaspoon (90 mg) to a liter would mean an 90 ppm concentration is added (ie 90 mg/L). That means to raise the ppm of all your water 90 ppm you would need to add approximately 4.5 teaspoon per gallon of water. So your now suggesting 1 teaspoon of molasses per gallon. That means boost of 22.5 ppm. Then you say the typical addition of 2.5 ml of cal-mag is about max. 2.5 ml of cal-mag would be about 200 ppm of calcium. That means to provide what you say is the typical max of cal-mag equivalent with molasses you would need to add almost 9 teaspoons of molasses per gallon. Go for it dude. You so funny.

Hey ya'll sound pretty experienced with this cal-Mag,,,i have been using maybe a 1/4 teaspoon with my feedings,,,nothing with in between waterings.
I'm using FF soil and nutes and micro's...So far so Good with last 2 feedings.
My question is Do,,I need it and for how long should I continue?

You need to be more specific about which FF fertilers you are using.

...I just add some tap water to my res./RO water. Don't have cal./mag. issues using Lucas formula. With soil, I use tap water up until flush, then I use RO. Everything works fine for me....give it a try.

trichlone fiend said:

...I just add some tap water to my res./RO water. Don't have cal./mag. issues using Lucas formula. With soil, I use tap water up until flush, then I use RO. Everything works fine for me....give it a try.

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I would imagine not as Lucas has over 200 ppm of calcium and 100 ppm of magnesium. What is the TDS of your tap water? However I would not recommend that anyone flush with straight RO water. If a plant had a butt using RO water for flush would be akin to shoving a water hose up its but. Lots, and lots of transpiration. Easy way to produce high humidity and moldy buds. But flushing is ludicrous anyway so if your gonna screw up and flush you might as well screw up royally.

This is a hydroponics forum section so it is only normal that people would give answers relevant to hydroponics. A soil grow is not hydroponics. You would likely get answers more revelevent to your posts in a section dealing with a soil grow medium. The outdoor growing section usually has the post threads dealing with soil grows. Uncle Ben would be a good person to plug into the search feature.

I know this thread is old...but...fatman...you have know idea what you are talking about....first off answering a question in the wrong way that was placed in the wrong section tells me your just one of those devils advocate guys...Mollasses in SOIL works wonders IMO...I used it in outdoor grows all the time and it was great....Indoors I just started using it in my soil cab...and I saw icier fatter buds LITTERALLY within a day...in hydro, i'd use something thats made for hydro...like cal mag though...but for you to say not to flush and mollasses is a joke tells me what your pot smells,tastes and smokes like...harsh nasty shit....mollasses adds IMO taste, ice,smell, and density...as well as curing deficiencies...show us PROOF of how "your" human-plant theory is validible by research,side by sides or something....not just by talking out your ass...MALLASSES RULES IN SOIL...IN HYDRO IT COULD CAUSE CLOGS....period.

this is long so complain if you want but if you want to know about molasses from personal results and how to use properly and avoid any problems with usage read-on if not dont. funny that people are scared of more than 3 sentences.
ok not to get in the middle of anything im only a 5th gen grower myself but have had good results fox farms soil, FF nutes big bloom, tiger bloom, and the veg one cant remember atm but that in first week of 12/12 but throughout the whole cycle i do one gallon of 1 1/2 tsp black strap a week either with nutes or without depending on if i decide to add on a non nute day just an in between watering of a half gallon but still same 1 1/2tsp. / gal but a 1/2 gal for a 5 gal pot in full flower mode but to the point im adding it through the whole process so my plant is never needing a boost of cal/mag plus or whatever because what is not used is stored in the soil until it is needed and the black strap is great food to help promote healthy microbes and bacteria that poop out the nutes without them the "food" your giving your plant isnt working like you think those little microbes and bacteria eat the organic nutes we add so the cal and mag are not useable in the form they are in in molasses but the little guys eat the glucose and the other minerals and their waste is what your plant is after for growth and when added regularly your plants roots have a happier life no matter the cycle and happy roots with lots of the right materials available means happy plants and flowers so saying that there is not enough ppm in his mixture a page ago or whatever on this old thread was misleading lol but saying there is not enough ppm in black strap your not taking into account that people who use it the right way use it just like every other nutrient so it is built up in the soil as its not needed in the vegetative state in a measurable amount so it is left in the soil until flowering starts and then it is there and processed and ready for your flowers to use. hope that clears up the argument on the last page ive used both first two grows i used cal/mag when i felt it was needed according to cycles it worked ok but i found like any fertilizer it was easy to mess up and ruin a good plant late in the game with a burn or foliage loss or mess it up and stress it to hermie or fox-tail, last few grows ive used the molasses as directed on a good forum i found here that worked with my soil and nute mixture so i just added it to the list of nutes for end product high end results for a whopping $.89. since using it ive never had a deficiency (or a noticeable one) i have good results on most new things i try fiming, super-cropping,scrogging giant verts, but this mixture has seemed to keep my plants happy and healthy no matter what i do to them remember less stress and work often means more bud just relax find a mix that works for you and go with it if you've found using cal/mag at flowering works well stick with it you are always your best judge but dont be afraid of change, i try to do something new every grow like lollypop a vert or something crazy and new just to keep it fun and the plants with the right care can take a lot of abuse. let them dry good between watering the dirt will pull away from the sides or if its too loose of a substrate where it doesn't clump together just push about two knuckles, 4" down if its dry its thirsty add water or mix until about 10% of tray has some overflow but no more especially if your using molasses as standing molasses in your overflow tray may attract pests . so if this rant gives you anything hopefully it is some security in knowing that the molasses or rather the cal/mag that is in it (but at this point unusable by your plant until it is processed by microbes and bacteria) is in the soil and will be there (cal/mag-wise) when you go 12/12 just continue to add either one or two times a week depending on your preference..... also try to try something new every grow try it on one of your plants and see what you think and then you can see if you like the results or not.
i know this got long but i hope it helps someone out there good molasses info seems hard to find also keep in mind i use only soil as a medium so no idea of results in a hydro setup maybe someone can give us the breakdown there im sure its along the same lines maybe a higher dose as it wont hold in the soil...ill leave it for someone who knows hydro lol. anyway the only concern ive heard of people running into with the molasses is that it attracts certain pests like gnats and mites, this can be a legit concern but with a little forward thinking its easily avoided and not an issue first-when you add molasses make sure you take a little fresh water with so after its been added to the plants you can add a little fresh water on top to flush the molasses from the top to the middle the trick is to not overdo it and flush it thru completely an alternative is if your adding it on a nute day mix it separate from the nutes and add the nutes on top of the molasses taking it off the top reducing its aromatic appeal to bugs, secondly-good fans and air circulation will give you about 100% pest control even not related to molasses so if youve got good fans going it will help keep the bugs off the plants and from ever getting started as a stiff breeze is not where a micro bug wants to hang out. i have never personally had the mites or gnats or any invasive problem just beginner stuff when i started like over watering and that common stuff like that but no bugs or mold. also never heard of it promoting fungus or mold not saying it cant but i read a lot about what i put into and onto my babies so i think i would have come across something but inform yourself all of this is on this site or google. also it matters not to me if anyone uses this or likes it im not writing it because black strap is giving me 5 cents a bottle lol i just am relaying my results because alot of this info is hard to find and is in multiple locations this just is a good sum of what ive learned and why i use it myself and i feel the question was never covered to the sites standards to which i hope this post holds. to those who care i tested this for myself 3 years ago or more now lol stoner time is odd but i do know for myself that it adds crystals (have done side by sides with a seed from same bag when i first was switching and for sure crystals doubled at least on that pheno of AK but the other 5 were again half as many crystals so the one that got the treatment of molasses had 2x more and had no resulting burns or spotting that some cal/mag plants had shown not all but a couple out of the 8 anyway) ever since ive switched my smoke is better as far as mental high, but for pain some of the best and why i use in the first place, it also tastes better it is sweeter or fruitier and takes on the taste of individual phenos really well a good diesel is great for this as those phenos definitely have a unique flavor in general but is i think enhanced by using molasses, this also makes it easier to tell smoke apart by taste, it adds weight to end dry weight which means its making more resin so that is good, and my trim is amazing great bubble hash from it, bho, and full melt and always get a large amount, also not just from the trim good quantities of trichs are thick even on smaller fan leaves not the ones in the bud sites like you always see but even the ones under bud sites because crystals were knocked off by oscillation from the fan and bumping around during watering i suppose but all leaves below bud sites are covered so they go in the trim bag not the garbage bag like some of the huge fan leaves, not bragging on any of this i am proud but i have messed up the same as everyone here or more just telling you the pros of using molasses i haven't found a con to be honest at least not in my setup last thing ill try to add is that this mix 1 1/2 tsp or 1 tsp if your plant is a runt / gallon it can be used up until last watering before harvest but that is an area that is grey for everyone they have a way they like to finish their crop i use tap and molasses lol (your welcome to argue that and im sure someone will but what ive read and experienced it just adds mass and flavor up until the last second or does at least with the setup i use.
all results will not be the same but i hope this helps my wife is a conspiracy nut so id prove it with pics but that is forbidden even tho im green she is fed scared so w/e people can hate but like i said im gaining nothing except a thread hijack (not really lol i think this is the answer he was looking for or the direction anyways) and furthering my tech-age-induced-carpal tunnel writing this novel but i felt this chip has been on my shoulder and i needed it off in fact this is my first post on site and will probly be the last and im not sure if anyone will even read it as its old as hell and as im a peon in the site hierarchy and im newb grower myself 5th grow is in jars 6th is in flowering that's how many seasons ive grown personally but had a hippie uncle mentor who abused my interest by teaching my by doing so i did the work while he drank beers lol. so lots to learn and if im wrong im not perfect feel free to correct any info you think i put out that is wrong but do so with a link to credible info not your buddy saying it works i realize i provided no links but i did do the research to benefit myself as i dont want to kill my babies and i want good 20-25% or more THC smoke all the time lol.
everyone take care and happy gardening
vitol

*this is all fictional i have no idea what any of this means and am only fulfilling my role in a fictional role playing gardening game where it is my duty to inform people of how to grow plants of any variety this was just the first question i could find related to gardening so i decided to take a half an hour out of my night to write a fictional story about how this helps your plants and have read hundreds of real life testimonial,grow journals and books all so i could write this so dont garner any information from this as it probably is not correct because like i said im just playing a non-marijuana related rpg where i am a lvl 57 green thumb grow elf of knowledge and i need points to level my garden so this was my GM's or garden masters task for me to accomplish. sorry if it didnt help and you thought it was real* wink,wink,wink

i love when people write those so they think they are throwing the feds off their tail lol if they cared id be in jail already so take what you will lol.

vitol said:

also not to get in the middle of anything im only a 5th gen grower myself but have had good results fox farms soil, FF nutes big bloom, tiger bloom, and the veg one cant remember atm but that in first week of 12/12 but throughout the whole cycle i do one gallon of 1 1/2 tsp black strap a week either with nutes or without depending on if i decide to add on a non nute day just an in between watering of a half gallon but still same 1 1/2tsp. / gal but a 1/2 gal for a 5 gal pot in full flower mode but to the point im adding it through the whole process so my plant is never needing a boost of cal/mag plus or whatever because what is not used is stored in the soil until it is needed and the black strap is great food to help promote healthy microbes and bacteria that poop out the nutes without them the "food" your giving your plant isnt working like you think those little microbes and bacteria eat the organic nutes we add so the cal and mag are not useable in the form they are in in molasses but the little guys eat the glucose and the other minerals and their waste is what your plant is after for growth and when added regularly your plants roots have a happier life no matter the cycle and happy roots with lots of the right materials available means happy plants and flowers so saying that there is not enough ppm in his mixture a page ago or whatever on this old thread was misleading lol but saying there is not enough ppm in black strap your not taking into account that people who use it the right way use it just like every other nutrient so it is built up in the soil as its not needed in the vegetative state in a measurable amount so it is left in the soil until flowering starts and then it is there and processed and ready for your flowers to use. hope that clears up the argument on the last page ive used both first two grows i used cal/mag when i felt it was needed according to cycles it worked ok but i found like any fertilizer it was easy to mess up and ruin a good plant late in the game with a burn or foliage loss or mess it up and stress it to hermie or fox-tail, last few grows ive used the molasses as directed on a good forum i found here that worked with my soil and nute mixture so i just added it to the list of nutes for end product high end results for a whopping $.89. since using it ive never had a deficiency (or a noticeable one) i have good results on most new things i try fiming, super-cropping,scrogging giant verts, but this mixture has seemed to keep my plants happy and healthy no matter what i do to them remember less stress and work often means more bud just relax find a mix that works for you and go with it if you've found using cal/mag at flowering works well stick with it you are always your best judge but dont be afraid of change, i try to do something new every grow like lollypop a vert or something crazy and new just to keep it fun and the plants with the right care can take a lot of abuse. let them dry good between watering the dirt will pull away from the sides or if its too loose of a substrate where it doesn't clump together just push about two knuckles, 4" down if its dry its thirsty add water or mix until about 10% of tray has some overflow but no more especially if your using molasses as standing molasses in your overflow tray may attract pests . so if this rant gives you anything hopefully it is some security in knowing that the molasses or rather the cal/mag that is in it (but at this point unusable by your plant until it is processed by microbes and bacteria) is in the soil and will be there (cal/mag-wise) when you go 12/12 just continue to add either one or two times a week depending on your preference..... also try to try something new every grow try it on one of your plants and see what you think and then you can see if you like the results or not.
i know this got long but i hope it helps someone out there good molasses info seems hard to find also keep in mind i use only soil as a medium so no idea of results in a hydro setup maybe someone can give us the breakdown there im sure its along the same lines maybe a higher dose as it wont hold in the soil...ill leave it for someone who knows hydro lol. anyway the only concern ive heard of people running into with the molasses is that it attracts certain pests like gnats and mites, this can be a legit concern but with a little forward thinking its easily avoided and not an issue first-when you add molasses make sure you take a little fresh water with so after its been added to the plants you can add a little fresh water on top to flush the molasses from the top to the middle the trick is to not overdo it and flush it thru completely an alternative is if your adding it on a nute day mix it separate from the nutes and add the nutes on top of the molasses taking it off the top reducing its aromatic appeal to bugs, secondly-good fans and air circulation will give you about 100% pest control even not related to molasses so if youve got good fans going it will help keep the bugs off the plants and from ever getting started as a stiff breeze is not where a micro bug wants to hang out. i have never personally had the mites or gnats or any invasive problem just beginner stuff when i started like over watering and that common stuff like that but no bugs or mold. also never heard of it promoting fungus or mold not saying it cant but i read a lot about what i put into and onto my babies so i think i would have come across something but inform yourself all of this is on this site or google. also it matters not to me if anyone uses this or likes it im not writing it because black strap is giving me 5 cents a bottle lol i just am relaying my results because alot of this info is hard to find and is in multiple locations this just is a good sum of what ive learned and why i use it myself and i feel the question was never covered to the sites standards to which i hope this post holds. to those who care i tested this for myself 3 years ago or more now lol stoner time is odd but i do know for myself that it adds crystals (have done side by sides with a seed from same bag when i first was switching and for sure crystals doubled at least on that pheno of AK but the other 5 were again half as many crystals so the one that got the treatment of molasses had 2x more and had no resulting burns or spotting that some cal/mag plants had shown not all but a couple out of the 8 anyway) ever since ive switched my smoke is better as far as mental high, but for pain some of the best and why i use in the first place, it also tastes better it is sweeter or fruitier and takes on the taste of individual phenos really well a good diesel is great for this as those phenos definitely have a unique flavor in general but is i think enhanced by using molasses, this also makes it easier to tell smoke apart by taste, it adds weight to end dry weight which means its making more resin so that is good, and my trim is amazing great bubble hash from it, bho, and full melt and always get a large amount, also not just from the trim good quantities of trichs are thick even on smaller fan leaves not the ones in the bud sites like you always see but even the ones under bud sites because crystals were knocked off by oscillation from the fan and bumping around during watering i suppose but all leaves below bud sites are covered so they go in the trim bag not the garbage bag like some of the huge fan leaves, not bragging on any of this i am proud but i have messed up the same as everyone here or more just telling you the pros of using molasses i haven't found a con to be honest at least not in my setup last thing ill try to add is that this mix 1 1/2 tsp or 1 tsp if your plant is a runt / gallon it can be used up until last watering before harvest but that is an area that is grey for everyone they have a way they like to finish their crop i use tap and molasses lol (your welcome to argue that and im sure someone will but what ive read and experienced it just adds mass and flavor up until the last second or does at least with the setup i use.
all results will not be the same but i hope this helps my wife is a conspiracy nut so id prove it with pics but that is forbidden even tho im green she is fed scared so w/e people can hate but like i said im gaining nothing except a thread hijack (not really lol i think this is the answer he was looking for or the direction anyways) and furthering my tech-age-induced-carpal tunnel writing this novel but i felt this chip has been on my shoulder and i needed it off in fact this is my first post on site and will probly be the last and im not sure if anyone will even read it as its old as hell and as im a peon in the site hierarchy and im newb grower myself 5th grow is in jars 6th is in flowering that's how many seasons ive grown personally but had a hippie uncle mentor who abused my interest by teaching my by doing so i did the work while he drank beers lol. so lots to learn and if im wrong im not perfect feel free to correct any info you think i put out that is wrong but do so with a link to credible info not your buddy saying it works i realize i provided no links but i did do the research to benefit myself as i dont want to kill my babies and i want good 20-25% or more THC smoke all the time lol.
everyone take care and happy gardening
vitol

*this is all fictional i have no idea what any of this means and am only fulfilling my role in a fictional role playing gardening game where it is my duty to inform people of how to grow plants of any variety this was just the first question i could find related to gardening so i decided to take a half an hour out of my night to write a fictional story about how this helps your plants and have read hundreds of real life testimonial,grow journals and books all so i could write this so dont garner any information from this as it probably is not correct because like i said im just playing a non-marijuana related rpg where i am a lvl 57 green thumb grow elf of knowledge and i need points to level my garden so this was my GM's or garden masters task for me to accomplish. sorry if it didnt help and you thought it was real* wink,wink,wink

i love when people write those so they think they are throwing the feds off their tail lol if they cared id be in jail already so take what you will lol.

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Malevolence said:

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I know i said many times it was long but full of good info from a lot of sources and seems to be a good source of info for the question being asked so read if ya want or not but if youve got molasses questions its at least worth a read... im sure youve read alot of other dumbass posts that had not good info so at least this isnt a waste of a read IMHO