But what about the roads? Common argument against Libertarian/Anarchy Debunked.

deprave said:

It would be worth it if you kept 30,000$+ extra a year and the roads were built for realistic costs....regardless 13 tolls, you must have a ridiculous commute..it would probably be like 3 or 4 tolls that cost a knickle or a dime for most people.

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and you know this how..."Hey guys watch me pull some numbers out my ass"...How do you figure it cost 30,000 a year out MY pocket..WTF... ok let's play with your magic numbers for driving to work, which is low as fuck. I think it would have to be a quarter or more, but we will use your 4 toll and a dime scenario...that would be 40 cents one way another 40 coming back..80 cents a day...now take that at 5 days a week at 52 weeks that would be 208.00 dollars just to drive your car back and forth to work for a year and that is out my pocket. Now lets be realistic and use a more accurate amount these greedy corps would use.. lets say a quarter ( now I'm low balling but fuck it)...25 cents 4 times is a dollar..both ways would make it two dollars..two dollars 5 days a week makes it 10.00. Now doing 10 bucks for 52 weeks makes it 520.00 and thats just to drive my car to work...out my pocket, can't even recoup it by filing taxes..WTF...damn now I forgot to pick up something from the store another 1.50 gone out my pocket just to get to store and home...DUDE ARE YOU CRAZY

londonfog said:

and you know this how..."Hey guys watch me pull some numbers out my ass"...How do you figure it cost 30,000 a year out MY pocket..WTF... ok let's play with your magic numbers for driving to work, which is low as fuck. I think it would have to be a quarter or more, but we will use your 4 toll and a dime scenario...that would be 40 cents one way another 40 coming back..80 cents a day...now take that at 5 days a week at 52 weeks that would be 208.00 dollars just to drive your car back and forth to work for a year and that is out my pocket. Now lets be realistic and use a more accurate amount these greedy corps would use.. lets say a quarter ( now I'm low balling but fuck it)...25 cents 4 times is a dollar..both ways would make it two dollars..two dollars 5 days a week makes it 10.00. Now doing 10 bucks for 52 weeks makes it 520.00 and thats just to drive my car to work...out my pocket, can't even recoup it by filing taxes..WTF...damn now I forgot to pick up something from the store another 1.50 gone out my pocket just to get to store and home...DUDE ARE YOU CRAZY

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"Dude you are crazy" to take my numbers literally, nobody knows not even you so don't pretend like you do, its speculation either way lol, your fucking stupid to argue semantics on this, I can't believe you actually sit down and wrote this lmao

Dime vs Quarter who cares, the fact is that roads would be made cheaper and we would know the exact value.

londonfog said:

and you know this how..."Hey guys watch me pull some numbers out my ass"...How do you figure it cost 30,000 a year out MY pocket..WTF... ok let's play with your magic numbers for driving to work, which is low as fuck. I think it would have to be a quarter or more, but we will use your 4 toll and a dime scenario...that would be 40 cents one way another 40 coming back..80 cents a day...now take that at 5 days a week at 52 weeks that would be 208.00 dollars just to drive your car back and forth to work for a year and that is out my pocket. Now lets be realistic and use a more accurate amount these greedy corps would use.. lets say a quarter ( now I'm low balling but fuck it)...25 cents 4 times is a dollar..both ways would make it two dollars..two dollars 5 days a week makes it 10.00. Now doing 10 bucks for 52 weeks makes it 520.00 and thats just to drive my car to work...out my pocket, can't even recoup it by filing taxes..WTF...damn now I forgot to pick up something from the store another 1.50 gone out my pocket just to get to store and home...DUDE ARE YOU CRAZY

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Fuck that
If you drive just a mile on the illinois tollway it is going to cost you a buck
doesnt matter if you drive 10 or 1
it is going to cost you a buck
until the next toll
then it is going to cost you another buck
they just privatized the skyway in chicago
7.8 miles
3.50
and that is only if you have 2 axles
the rate goes up to 20 bucks if you are a semi trailer

deprave said:

"Dude you are crazy" to take my numbers literally, nobody knows not even you so don't pretend like you do, its speculation either way lol, your fucking stupid to argue semantics on this, I can't believe you actually sit down and wrote this lmao

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oh so when you use numbers from now own we know that it is BULL$hit...got it thanks sorry for the misunderstanding.

ChesusRice said:

Fuck that
If you drive just a mile on the illinois tollway it is going to cost you a buck
doesnt matter if you drive 10 or 1
it is going to cost you a buck
until the next toll
then it is going to cost you another buck
they just privatized the skyway in chicago
7.8 miles
3.50
and that is only if you have 2 axles
the rate goes up to 20 bucks if you are a semi trailer

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I was just trying to play with his "magic numbers" so he could see how STUPID his idea is. Numbers don't lie..People do

ChesusRice said:

Fuck that
If you drive just a mile on the illinois tollway it is going to cost you a buck
doesnt matter if you drive 10 or 1
it is going to cost you a buck
until the next toll
then it is going to cost you another buck
they just privatized the skyway in chicago
7.8 miles
3.50
and that is only if you have 2 axles
the rate goes up to 20 bucks if you are a semi trailer

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If we live in a volutary society the actual value would be known and we would have firms to set "regulations"...I.E....if you charge over so much you would be publicly blacklisted or whatever. You guys keep applying this as if its a real world scenario when really its not, everything would be completely different, we can only make assumptions. I encourage you to read the thread.

Londonfog, if you are really paying $520 in your tongue-in-cheek analysis, I conclude that you aren't taking any vacations. They're pretty nice. cn

deprave said:

If we live in a volutary society the actual value would be known and we would have firms to set "regulations"...I.E....if you charge over so much you would be publicly blacklisted or whatever. You guys keep applying this as if its a real world scenario when really its not, everything would be completely different, we can only make assumptions. I encourage you to read the thread.

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We already have real world examples
No one is forced to use the illinois tollway now
You just have to drive 40 miles extra and take another hour and a half to go from Milwaukee to Chicago

Wow imagine if all the roads were privatized
And how do you know they would keep the roads up to par?
For profit sometimes means cutting corners

Want to drive my shitty road? pay the toll other wise
You gonna pay the same amount not using it by driving alternate routes
and you better make some more time available

cannabineer said:

Londonfog, if you are really paying $520 in your tongue-in-cheek analysis, I conclude that you aren't taking any vacations. They're pretty nice. cn

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Hey I own the freeway

A red car ran over my cat

No red cars are allowed on my freeway anymore

Dont like it
tough shit
use another road

ChesusRice said:

We already have real world examples
No one is forced to use the illinois tollway now
You just have to drive 40 miles extra and take another hour and a half to go from Milwaukee to Chicago

Wow imagine if all the roads were privatized
And how do you know they would keep the roads up to par?
For profit sometimes means cutting corners

Want to drive my shitty road? pay the toll other wise
You gonna pay the same amount not using it by driving alternate routes
and you better make some more time available

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No we don't have examples, there are many factors your not considering. Market Anarchism, Anarcho-Capitilism, Lysander Spooners Voluntarism..has never happened. It is essentially science fiction. Your basically sitting here comparing the equivalent of star wars or something to real life in America today, and doing a horrible job at it even because you don't even take every nearly factor in to consideration, in fact you only factor in a few things. Funnily enough londonfrog actually attempted to break out the calculator and do a 10 minute calculation lol

cannabineer said:

Londonfog, if you are really paying $520 in your tongue-in-cheek analysis, I conclude that you aren't taking any vacations. They're pretty nice. cn

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I also did not include week-end driving either..so yes I was being pretty nice with only 520..

touché! cn

You guys need help. The same way government doesn't mean necessarily you live like North Korea, no government roads doesn't mean they need be private, nor a toll road. Here in California we have fast track toll roads. They're public. So toll roads are provided by Big Daddy gubmint who you all love so much.

No government still has mechanisms in place for public roads too. Government isn't magical, it's a waste.

The stupidity of this thread makes me so frustrated, I'm gonna go medicate. Later.

deprave said:

If we live in a volutary society the actual value would be known and we would have firms to set "regulations"...I.E....if you charge over so much you would be publicly blacklisted or whatever. You guys keep applying this as if its a real world scenario when really its not, everything would be completely different, we can only make assumptions. I encourage you to read the thread.

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Who are these firms that will set regulations? Are these regulations like laws? And they will blacklist me? Is that like when the current government does it now? These firms will have authority from where exactly?

deprave said:

If we live in a volutary society the actual value would be known and we would have firms to set "regulations"...I.E....if you charge over so much you would be publicly blacklisted or whatever. You guys keep applying this as if its a real world scenario when really its not, everything would be completely different, we can only make assumptions. I encourage you to read the thread.

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"Everything I'm saying is just assumptions that would totally work."

ok bro..........

Toorop said:

Who are these firms that will set regulations? Are these regulations like laws? And they will blacklist me? Is that like when the current government does it now? These firms will have authority from where exactly?

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Again we can only speculate and I am only using popular speculation, see page 5 or 6 with the dawn defense example.

Answers to your questions: Representatives of society( Independent arbitrators), yep, maybe, yes except with accountability and no centralization(everything is privatized that is the idea), society.

tomahawk2406 said:

"Everything I'm saying is just assumptions that would totally work."

ok bro..........

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We would have roads and thats my argument and the reason for making this thread. The argument that we need taxes or a big government in order to have roads is invalid, the argument that we even need a government to have roads is also an invalid argument as I have shown here we can have roads without taxes and even without a government at all. As I said over and over, we can only speculate how a voluntary society without government might work, I gave examples on how it might work which are completely rational. You choose to shut this down and not even expand your thinking into the realm of philosophy, you providing no suggestions whatsoever, and I feel very sad for you. I pointed out the flaws with anarchy being most importantly that there is no viable path to elimination of the state and secondly the argument that power will centralize and eventually form a state. I am simply saying that we would have roads, most importantly from the libertarian argument I made, libertarians are no anarchist most libertarian philosophy would include a minimal government that builds/repairs roads, but even more important from the libertarian argument on the tax front is that taxes aren't even used for roads now. I am sad to see that you completely shut yourself off from this these ideas so much that it seems as if you didn't even read it. You are a very closed mind individual and this is partly from state indoctrination actually, I do not not believe in anarchy because of the flaws which I stated, I recognize the main flaws but I sit here and argued for it, I think it could possibly work well if all the stars aligned and somehow the state was eliminated but I honestly don't see that happening nor do I see it sustaining itself unless everything went absolutely perfect. As canibear wrote it is kind of a utopian dream. It is obviously not likely the world today would be able to tolerate such a transition.

deprave said:

No we don't have examples, there are many factors your not considering. Market Anarchism, Anarcho-Capitilism, Lysander Spooners Voluntarism..has never happened. It is essentially science fiction. Your basically sitting here comparing the equivalent of star wars or something to real life in America today, and doing a horrible job at it even because you don't even take every nearly factor in to consideration, in fact you only factor in a few things. Funnily enough londonfrog actually attempted to break out the calculator and do a 10 minute calculation lol

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damn how slow are you ..It took me under a minute in my head to figure out the numbers you provided was kinda well lets just say