londonfog
Well-Known Member
they could have picked their own crops OR PAY someone to do it...what kinda fucking argument is that
But what about the roads? Common argument against Libertarian/Anarchy Debunked.
- Thread starter deprave
- Start date
deprave
New Member
LoL couldn't agree more but that was the debate....
deprave
New Member
why would we drive around on fucked up roads in the dark? Have you been reading this thread or not?
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
I don't get The Doctor's comment anarchy is just fancy Marxism. Marxism is socialist/communist amarchy. What we think of as communist Marxism was what he said had to happen before the real party began.
What this thread is about is Lysander Spooner anarchism. Who beat the USPS. Totally different than Marx. People, look him up.
What this thread is about is Lysander Spooner anarchism. Who beat the USPS. Totally different than Marx. People, look him up.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
kinda
... some shit I did just glance...so how do we pay the electric bill for street lights ???? I think I missed that part
deprave
New Member
exactly, he is confused, its because he is talking about far left social anarchy so this is something someone like Glenn Beck would say its marxism thus why I accused him of repeating talk radio because the way republicans always say everything is a communist plot so hopefully that explains the last couple of pages.
deprave
New Member
There are many theories, one that I gave an example of here and to put it in short this would be through a "home owners association" and through businesses and insurance companies. I encourage you to go back and read my posts if you want the details of those examples, still sorta beyond the main point here, which I stated repetitively.kinda
londonfog
Well-Known Member
It would be awful..and would cost a hell a lot more then it does now.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
you do realize street lights are part of the main point because they come into the cost of roads as well..just saying
deprave
New Member
It would only cost less in a free market scenario because of government inefficiency, waste, and distortion of value.
deprave
New Member
read my posts and then get back to me. page 8, 4, 5, and 6 are probably the most important, along with the first couple of pages.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
free market is driven by profits...do you really think it would be cheaper to drive around EVERYDAY having to pay a corporation to do so. What now my HOA fee now will be what..Please do tell some numbers when you speak. Hell everything will go up that has anything to do with putting cars on the road. I think you need to rethink this crazy idea..Good job for the effort ..but nawwwwww
Mr Neutron
Well-Known Member
I'd still choose anarchy (whatever hyphenated type you like) over a police state.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I am contending that inefficience, waste, loss of value etc. are human universals, whether it's from government, a homeowners' association, your neighborhood warlord or anyone in an oversight position. And "nobody in oversight" won't work. Humans are predators and opportunists. The social form that contains that while being efficient and dynamic has not been found yet in ten thousand years. One might argue that pacifist societies such as Shakers and Mennonites did this, but they came to be via a selection process. You can't turn an entire metro area into a cohesive pacifist community. It disregards human nature. My opinion.
deprave
New Member
you wouldnt have to, again...page 8, 4, 5, and 6 are probably the most important so there is a shortcut for you.
deprave
New Member
It wouldnt be nobody in oversight, I am not quite sure where this notion comes from. It simply wouldn't be One Super Power in oversight, this is where the inefficiency comes from is having one unit with no accountability in power over all and distorting the free market (it is always that one unit regardless), thus why it cost the government ridiculous amount of money to complete the simplest of tasks. The private sector can charge whatever they want. The real value or effeciency is distorted.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I do not understand how distributed authority can be stable. This republic constitutes <cough!> one of the best tries at that so far ... and it sure seems to be succumbing to centralization anyway. cn
deprave
New Member
Yea again you nailed it really, the main argument is that this centralization would happen naturally, historically it does. Only if the free market could implement such methods (very possible yet unthought of specifically in part because it hasn't had a lot of chances) then this is the only way that would work. On the flip side the this is why the market anarchist argue against libertarianism because a limited government will eventually bloom into a totalitarian monster. The market anarchist conclude for this is in short that its worth giving it a try and coming up with ways to prevent this.
deprave
New Member
Worth giving a try? You mean they have no answers just that the free market can solve it? Fair enough but delving into this is speculation either way you look at it, so its not really that fair to argue this point although I do think its a relevant point, this is their argument which seems rational given that everyone was willing to live in such a society and not fallen prey to corporatism because at that point it would be too late(heh).
to touch more on this argument and where they are going with this an example of theories put forth for preventing this centralization or monopoly on power from page 6 regarding security firms monopolizing into one central power:
to touch more on this argument and where they are going with this an example of theories put forth for preventing this centralization or monopoly on power from page 6 regarding security firms monopolizing into one central power:
so again here is what the conclude in their core argument with libertarians and libertarians core argument against them: " But let’s just assume that it is inevitable that this voluntary stateless society would, under all circumstances, eventually form into a state. Even then, that is not a reason to simply give up and let the state have its way with us. It does not logically follow that we should all kill ourselves, just because eventually we’re all going to die anyway. "
londonfog
Well-Known Member
Deprave I forced myself to read your post you recommended ( it hurts..now I have to puff one )...I think you have not thought your ideas fully . My points that I mentioned earlier still stands. If we lived in a world that did not feed with greed then maybe you would have an idea that would be worth the thought..We don't. The bottom line is you pay gov or you pay others. I would rather pay taxes for a road then have it placed on the free market at whatever cost that free market demands ( staying with the example of the OP) ..and believe the demand to drive would be great do to way of life. Why do you hate Government so much...you do realize even Ron Paul was part of government damn near all his life ( I'm including military ). Bottom line somethings I appreciated my government for. Have you ever traveled outside the United States ???