Bud moisture for perfect bud... :-)

old buzzard · Mar 9, 2019

h

Capn-Crunch said:
I dry mine on red colored plastic coat hangers because the blue ones hold too much moisture.
I then go out once a day and spin them clockwise using a Goose feather.
On the 12th day I invoke a voodoo ceremony to drive out the remaining moisture.
Then put the buds in handmade ceramic jars to cure for 11 months.

hey thanks capn for the intel.last dry I screwed up I got my ceramic jars from Walmart.I read somewhere that depending upon where the jars are hand made can effect the moisture content in the jar itself.do you have any indigenous tribes you recommend for building my jars ? also will one of those fancy digital whatchamacallits above fit on those hand made jars/as I have order 50 of them.thank you in advance.OH I did get a good deal on the red hangers from Walmart.thinking about marketing and selling them in a package deal with some LED lights.Technically it has your influence that helped me with the idea so you get lets say 20% of the money.30% if you supply the turkey feather,personally I think we could save some money if we used chicken feathers.I do disagree with you on the direction I am a firm believer they should be spun counter clockwise.hope that's not a deal breaker.

Kingrow1 · Mar 9, 2019

SSGrower said:
Yeah, I think language is gettin in the way.
I read you were Indian, that true?
Hopefully using words like gradient and distribution don't get in the way, so there would be some cells that equillabrete to 20% RH (6% or whatever by mass) when the osmotic pressure inside the plant can't keep up so to speak.

The correct scale i think is water activity (aw) where 0.80aw equals 20% as per the wiki link posted earlier in the thread when you equate to eqhilibrium and possibly mass idk i havent quite studied thecwhole commercial standard of food and textile industry yet nor their entire science...

So no i dont think i have a barrier to language or learning but precieve that turgor pressure was the problem due to tbhe amount of water simply lost through respiration in the cell and not humidity.

Humidity does play a small part as again per the wiki enteries earliercin the thread but i feel you fail to see the main mechanics of the cell and keep reverting back to humidity.

:-)

SSGrower · Mar 9, 2019

Kingrow1 said:
The correct scale i think is water activity (aw) where 0.80aw equals 20% as per the wiki link posted earlier in the thread when you equate to eqhilibrium and possibly mass idk i havent quite studied thecwhole commercial standard of food and textile industry yet nor their entire science...

So no i dont think i have a barrier to language or learning but precieve that turgor pressure was the problem due to tbhe amount of water simply lost through respiration in the cell and not humidity.

Humidity does play a small part as again per the wiki enteries earliercin the thread but i feel you fail to see the main mechanics of the cell and keep reverting back to humidity.

I'll do some digging on tugor pressure, I'm no biologist, more of a philosopher and death is absolute. My observations are this. A cut from a plant can survive and reroot, and without optimal environmental conditions those cells can only be kept alive for an definite period of time.

Capn-Crunch · Mar 10, 2019

old buzzard said:
h

hey thanks capn for the intel.last dry I screwed up I got my ceramic jars from Walmart.I read somewhere that depending upon where the jars are hand made can effect the moisture content in the jar itself.do you have any indigenous tribes you recommend for building my jars ? also will one of those fancy digital whatchamacallits above fit on those hand made jars/as I have order 50 of them.thank you in advance.OH I did get a good deal on the red hangers from Walmart.thinking about marketing and selling them in a package deal with some LED lights.Technically it has your influence that helped me with the idea so you get lets say 20% of the money.30% if you supply the turkey feather,personally I think we could save some money if we used chicken feathers.I do disagree with you on the direction I am a firm believer they should be spun counter clockwise.hope that's not a deal breaker.

hahahahaha...With age comes wisdom huh old buzzard, lol

Kingrow1 · Mar 10, 2019

SSGrower said:
I'll do some digging on tugor pressure, I'm no biologist, more of a philosopher and death is absolute. My observations are this. A cut from a plant can survive and reroot, and without optimal environmental conditions those cells can only be kept alive for an definite period of time.

A cut from a plant needs water at the cut quickly or cell death ensues as you cannot exspose the interior of the stem to drying conditions for very long.

Death is not absolute, plenty of organisms can live forever, death is merely part of our early evolution i doubt it will be part of mankinds latter though.

Dont use philosophy - hard science on wiki is your friend, mother nature is a bitch you wont beat her in a debate but she will screw your plants up for trying :-)

mo841 · Mar 10, 2019

I just hang it till stems snap then throw in jars with bovada packs and call it a day.
I aint got time to fuck around, same goes for actually growing it, water it, put light on it and leave it the fuck alone so it can do it's thing. Boredom leads to a lot of fucking around, get a hobby that don't take 6 months if your bored.

churchhaze · Mar 10, 2019

Almost everyone over-complicates the drying/curing process.

There's no such thing as drying for too long, but it's easy to screw things up by putting into jars too early.

Zephyrs · Mar 10, 2019

Dr. Who said:
Yup, there's steps they do that we don't.. I agree and so what? We get the job done....

You got directly to insults after that. Your known for it around here too.. Big deal...
The next part. I don't even understand your rambling point...Another insult as a defense to your NOT understanding actual science behind smoking and moisture content of material smoked.
Not to mention the wrong statement about material having a moisture content of 10-15% as curing a jar.... It just will not! Moisture content too low..

If you like your weed to crumble to dust and smoke "hot and harsh"....That's your choice...

But I'll answer back that you should keep your "bro science" incorrect statements to your self..

How about you actually supply some source material that backs your theory?

No, no! I asked YOU first....Because the facts behind my claim are all over this site by others too...

Just start with the truth behind flushing post.......

I think we've traded enough insults. They just aren't needed....Lets act like adults now,,,ok?

Well said.

SSGrower · Mar 10, 2019

Kingrow1 said:
A cut from a plant needs water at the cut quickly or cell death ensues as you cannot exspose the interior of the stem to drying conditions for very long.

Death is not absolute, plenty of organisms can live forever, death is merely part of our early evolution i doubt it will be part of mankinds latter though.

Dont use philosophy - hard science on wiki is your friend, mother nature is a bitch you wont beat her in a debate but she will screw your plants up for trying

Cell culture would be analogous to a clone taken and held in an ideal environment, they don't "root" until taken out of stasis.

There appears to be a bit of disagreement on the hard science with tugor pressure. Some believe the value can be negative and it is used as convention, while it seems it has been proven not the case, it must be positive for the cell to be alive, but just because it is positive doesn't mean the cell is alive.

Try water curing sometime. Notice the plant will dry out much faster when removed from the water than a fresh trmed plant will, even though by weight the water content is much higher. Typical herbaceous plants will have about a 3 to 1 ratio, supprised that if you remove 75% of this moisture you end up with a 1 to 1 ratio? Numbers look familiar?- dry bud ballpark. I digress....the water cured plant is dead before it is removed from the water and tugoric pressure remained positive until the cell walls rupture. Whether they rupture because the pressure is too high or too low seems less relevant than the rate they rupture.

So maybe using terms like "death" and "curing" not totally accurate?

I got science, wiki is not my friend.

Edit: f'n autocorrect.

Dr. Who · Mar 10, 2019

Kingrow1 said:
I strughle to even quantify what you say on dry and curing but rest assured members with less posts and skills chimed in with stuff worth reading on moisture and tobacco and actually added some good info.

Still dont get ya - sorry i dont use or buy boveda or dry curing aids as im not disabled and can just do it the way the old pros did....

You were the same with led cmh exspensive rare strains benies etc always looking to try and make a name

All I do is share facts and opinions (especially when asked about strains and bean costs).....

LED - not sold on it yet. Won't do my size plants the way I want....YET! The science is ever changing, fast too.
Buy the best COB set and in a week. Something better is out there.

CMH,,,simply can't make a foot print I need to make my space and styles work.... Nice stuff and great spectrum...

Beans/clones and prices? I'll pay up for what I want.....Most of it, things others may take years to get their hands on....SO WHAT?

You don't like my opinions because I'm right OR you disagree on simple shit like, "How much YOU would pay for a strain." So fucking what? We're both right from our own perspective on that..

Dr. Who · Mar 10, 2019

buyyouabeer said:
Dr. I think you are getting RH confused with moisture content. What I post below is for wood but I imagine it can be similar to our fav. plant. If you notice your preferred RH gives you a pretty similar moisture content of around ~10-15%.

"The property of the air is called the equilibrium moisture content (EMC) and it is numerically equal to the MC that wood will achieve during drying if you wait long enough and if the conditions do not change. (Example: At 30% RH, wood will achieve 6% MC. So the air has an EMC of 6%.)

Common conversions:
0% RH = 0% MC = 0% EMC
30% = 6%
50% = 9%
65% = 12%
80% = 16%
99% = 28%"

You are correct.. I screwed the pooch and spiraled in, crashed and burned...

After a simple call to my Tobacconist. He cleared my misconception..... The basic rule of thumb is MOISTURE CONTENT FOR SMOKING IS BETWEEN 12-14% as being optimal...

Your chart is a bit off for smoking materials....He said 58 to 62 % is optimal storage for maintaining that "cigarette" 12-14%. Cigars are different again - due to surface area.

Dr. Who · Mar 10, 2019

Kingrow1 said:
Ill start by stating - dried perfect cured primo bud has a water content of between 10 and 15%. This is quite locked away and would either need direct heat or an extended drying time of well over a month or two to futher purge.

I was thinking in a wrong way. This made ME WRONG..... You have the nod on moisture content of stored material and for smoking it......My bad, and I'm sorry for making it seem you were incorrect on Moisture Content.
Now on the storage part..... Not so much...To hold a MC (moisture content) capable of a curing period working....Above 52% is optimal...

I use Bovita's to hold optimal smoking ranges of stored materials. It goes out my door at optimal levels....

I don't hide from my mistakes.

Kingrow1 · Mar 11, 2019

Dr. Who said:
I was thinking in a wrong way. This made ME WRONG..... You have the nod on moisture content of stored material and for smoking it......My bad, and I'm sorry for making it seem you were incorrect on Moisture Content.
Now on the storage part..... Not so much...To hold a MC (moisture content) capable of a curing period working....Above 52% is optimal...

I use Bovita's to hold optimal smoking ranges of stored materials. It goes out my door at optimal levels....

I don't hide from my mistakes.

I see some one with a passion - you can never be truly wrong.

This thread has educated both of us a little more and i know no more than whats written here so undoubtedly theres more to the story.

For now we know theres some good science out there on moisture content and water activity in relationship to humidity - at this point that is all i can agree :-)

LinguaPeel · Mar 11, 2019

Internet growers act like everyone is growing the same weed,and that there's is the best it can be. And everyone wants a one word answer, the only right one word answer is "depends".

Bud grown under heavy winds takes longer to dry. If science bros want to top the damn near religious observation of the plant by the weirdos who grow it the best, then do it. Get some numbers on the thickness of the trich skins. Figure in all the variables.

Non-bio growing enlarges the plants cells stretching the cell wall thinner. Get your microscope and look, if you embrace science and can't simply accept the observable end result.

Brix level affects the freezing point of the plant. I wonder what it does to the other end of the temp spectrum? I don't need to know the science, all I need to know is that the Emerald cup winners are the plants with the highest Brix, and the bud spent months in a plastic bag before being jarred, and winning the comp 8 months after harvest, with no Brovida pack.

If anyone wants to get scientific to improve their product rather than supporting what they already do, no rush. The well funded investors aren't interested in craft quality, they prefer people be unaware of quality so they can cut production time and influence the further gadgetification of bad weed through sales of 35k terpene infusion cabinets and floor sweeping e-cigs. The new industry is all about equipment.

Next time you're in the Middle East buying hash from some shoeless booty scratcher who sifted the stuff sitting on a dirt floor, ask him what moisture level he keeps his hash at. Then smoke the shit and taste something you've probably never even tasted before: quality Cannabis resin, grown and produced with absolutely no science or gadgetry.

Kingrow1 · Mar 11, 2019

LinguaPeel said:
Internet growers act like everyone is growing the same weed,and that there's is the best it can be. And everyone wants a one word answer, the only right one word answer is "depends".

Bud grown under heavy winds takes longer to dry. If science bros want to top the damn near religious observation of the plant by the weirdos who grow it the best, then do it. Get some numbers on the thickness of the trich skins. Figure in all the variables.

Non-bio growing enlarges the plants cells stretching the cell wall thinner. Get your microscope and look, if you embrace science and can't simply accept the observable end result.

Brix level affects the freezing point of the plant. I wonder what it does to the other end of the temp spectrum? I don't need to know the science, all I need to know is that the Emerald cup winners are the plants with the highest Brix, and the bud spent months in a plastic bag before being jarred, and winning the comp 8 months after harvest, with no Brovida pack.

If anyone wants to get scientific to improve their product rather than supporting what they already do, no rush. The well funded investors aren't interested in craft quality, they prefer people be unaware of quality so they can cut production time and influence the further gadgetification of bad weed through sales of 35k terpene infusion cabinets and floor sweeping e-cigs. The new industry is all about equipment.

Next time you're in the Middle East buying hash from some shoeless booty scratcher who sifted the stuff sitting on a dirt floor, ask him what moisture level he keeps his hash at. Then smoke the shit and taste something you've probably never even tasted before: quality Cannabis resin, grown and produced with absolutely no science or gadgetry.

I think your quite right in that a lot of the craft has gone and for this new legal rec med market to profit they needed to move away from the craft and produce new things to sell.

This wasnt done by scientists or botanists though and they severly fucked up a lot of basic science that even an independant like me can call bs.

This drug splits people ~ some love the dream more than the high and it changes them into those not seeking the age old craft of growing and getting high.

Recently it seems acceptable to have wetter bud ~ Ya because a bunch a bunch of amaturesxtook over from the cartels and you struggle to make our bud still :-)

Bookush34 · Mar 11, 2019

You all over think this shit. Stop wasteing my precious oxygen.

Whole plant roots and all.
In a black garbage bag.
1 bovida pack per cola.
In the freezer for 4 weeks.

Pull it out and put a blow dryer I the bag till the breaker blows.

Boom. Smoke That dankest shit you have ever seen.

I can’t belive how stupid you people are. I am so right. I am the best grower in the world. You all need to leave my master only growing website to me and only me

I only post the most true and accurate facts. Anyone that disagrees with me is a piece of shit.

I don’t know how I am so right and none of you can see it.

Kingrow1 · Mar 12, 2019

Ok i tried to reference the main components of what were doing by drying.

I believe as best i can see that that takes two forms -

The oxidization/hydrolization/isomerization of chlorophyll into their corresponding green compounds

and

The conversion of a large percentage of startch to sugar mainly by enzymatic process.

I feel by allowing a natural dry these will be achieved and all the cure does is extend this futher and promote the lower moisture reactions of the bud chemistry.

Actually a lot of this chemistry and data can be found on tobacco analysis sites and hemp stem drying rope info type random stuff.

Obviously the trichs and volatile oils but as far as drying plant material thats the only concept i could take from it all :-)

SSGrower · Mar 13, 2019

I just dont think the cartels had/have the kind of resources to make a consistent product, I am certain compromisies get made, but this dosent mean the practices werent effective. IDK what its like in your neck of the woods but this is what mexican/south american brick was like, never saw seedless and you could tell what was grown and transported with greater care.

Agreed that it seems a lot of people are jaring too early and bovida is only marginally benificial, I wish they made a 50% pack, that would be of more use to me.

This little weather front rolling throuugh CO illustrates another variable in RH, barrometric pressure, and is another reason why I monitor and control it with those ink birds. Why I mentioned the elevation earlier too, not to mention differences seen when same strain is grown on hillside vs. the valley floor. I think it was jodry I saw actually had terpene analysis done to show the diferences.

Environment is one of the entirely under valued factors by todays growers, it is more important than light.

As a hobbyist if I have spent 4 - 6 months growing the plant if it take me another month to get to smoking the additional investment is minimal, 8 is a bit excessive and after about 2 I doubt if there would be any significant change, that cup weed was just being stored for a rigged comp anyway. You got that J of it? Pass it this way.

This ones for both KG and Doc, I wont be the one to convince you switch to led or megacrop, but I encourage you to investigate led based on what I have been able to do with 6 year old cob tech and the things I can say about mc are its a powder and is amino acid chelated micros for a mostly one part fertilizer.

:peace:

Kingrow1 · Mar 14, 2019

SSGrower said:
I just dont think the cartels had/have the kind of resources to make a consistent product, I am certain compromisies get made, but this dosent mean the practices werent effective. IDK what its like in your neck of the woods but this is what mexican/south american brick was like, never saw seedless and you could tell what was grown and transported with greater care.

Agreed that it seems a lot of people are jaring too early and bovida is only marginally benificial, I wish they made a 50% pack, that would be of more use to me.

This little weather front rolling throuugh CO illustrates another variable in RH, barrometric pressure, and is another reason why I monitor and control it with those ink birds. Why I mentioned the elevation earlier too, not to mention differences seen when same strain is grown on hillside vs. the valley floor. I think it was jodry I saw actually had terpene analysis done to show the diferences.

Environment is one of the entirely under valued factors by todays growers, it is more important than light.

As a hobbyist if I have spent 4 - 6 months growing the plant if it take me another month to get to smoking the additional investment is minimal, 8 is a bit excessive and after about 2 I doubt if there would be any significant change, that cup weed was just being stored for a rigged comp anyway. You got that J of it? Pass it this way.

This ones for both KG and Doc, I wont be the one to convince you switch to led or megacrop, but I encourage you to investigate led based on what I have been able to do with 6 year old cob tech and the things I can say about mc are its a powder and is amino acid chelated micros for a mostly one part fertilizer.

Peeps are struggling to fathom basic drying - Any water will evaporate into the air whether at %70 rh or %20 rh. This means that perfect bud moisture and simple drying is easy to do in all of these environments.

The fact i have to come here to point out some simple science to a group of peeps that have ignored this and created a whole subsection of broscience on drying is ridiculous and you should all be taken outside and shot :-)

SSGrower · Mar 14, 2019

Kingrow1 said:
Peeps are struggling to fathom basic drying - Any water will evaporate into the air whether at %70 rh or %20 rh. This means that perfect bud moisture and simple drying is easy to do in all of these environments.

The fact i have to come here to point out some simple science to a group of peeps that have ignored this and created a whole subsection of broscience on drying is ridiculous and you should all be taken outside and shot

I'm confused, do we agree the rate at which moisture is removed is relevant? If even in the most minimal of ways?

Your English may be fine and it is the only language I can communicate in but I am having trouble understanding your point.

Bud moisture for perfect bud... :-)

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