Brown spots
- Thread starter jonnyv2
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kingromano
Well-Known Member
could be calcium deficiency .. different genetics can express it differently, but its usually rust spot type shit
your plant is deep green i would start to reduce the fertilizer .. around 2ml of bloom and 1 of pk .. probably why some calcium could be locked
but it looks minor ..
your plant is deep green i would start to reduce the fertilizer .. around 2ml of bloom and 1 of pk .. probably why some calcium could be locked
but it looks minor ..
kingromano
Well-Known Member
a flush depending how its done can be violent for the soil life/balance
give em water if you want or light dosed feed
give em water if you want or light dosed feed
CanadianJim
Well-Known Member
^This.
Flushing can cause osmotic stress on the roots.
kingromano
Well-Known Member
couldnt have said it better
outliergenetix
Well-Known Member
i run coco in my organic soil as you do, i would recommend tho you lose the perlite not getting into why but with right amount of coco you dont need to aerate it any more though if you want to add aewration still for some reason use another means not perlite imo. that said why i'm responding is P as well K, iron, cal and mag in this type of mix with coco has always been finicky for certain plants regarding those rust spots and a few other similar symptoms that would be off topic. over the years i have come to learn this abou that mix which is you need to seriously plan what you put in it and monitor it's ph because unlike using peet in a coots mix using coca usually leads to a high ph as sphagnum is acidic and coco leaqns alkaline to neutral. what i'm saying is your ph is almost undoubtly higher than you think if you are assuming you can just use coco instead of peet when making your own soil. perlite complicates this even urther for diff reasons and i never use that ever especially in a coco ammended composts.
now to the more specifics of what im saying. the coco in addition to making your soil ph higher thsan mixes you buy or usually would make coco also has the ever present issue with cal/mag and has the buterfly effect of potentially locking out potassium and iron especially if you over compensate etc.. it is also of not that some micros absorb a full ph point lower than other nutes so while being at the higher end of the soil ph scale more readily locks out stuff like iron and more problematic phosphorous itself. all this stuff im saying which admittedly im saying poorly adds up to a mix that is incredibly volatile and hard to manage accross a diverse set of plants. now that said i do exacty this minus the perlite despite these negatives. it does however require me to literally test my soils ph the CORRECT WAY not just ph run off. because i re-ammend the same soil from grow to grow ph will always drift upwards ovwr time in my soil so i need to add fgerous sulfate to bring it down into range. if you are to continue using a compost and coco mix you need to seriously check your soil for drift and adjust but the hard part is this adjustment takes 2-3 months so there is no quick fix as stuff like watering with low ph water over tie lowers medium ph is an old wives tale. it is flat out false. in reality ph'ing that is within 1 ph point or so of the medium is not needed at all and in relaity is optimal for it to be slightly hgher or lower than the optimal range of the medium so the swing gives you a larger window of ph for nutes to be abosrbed assuring none are missed because of the mediums ph.
long story short it could be a calcium issue but could also be the early stages of P lockout from high ph soil, K lockout from over supplimenting cal/mag or iron defficiency also from high PH and/or too much calcium supplimentation. though it is admittedly hard to overdue calcium and any organic soil with compost should have more than enough in it though the coco complicates that as we know. . to demo this i have run with 7.4 soil ph and some plants will exibit the sympom yours shows and degrade over time. the key here is some plants because while 7.4 sounds high it is actually the optimal range for almost all the nutes exccept for phosphorus and iron. what makes it hard in coco though is you suually have some plants with some degree of a a cal mag issue whenever you use coco simply for the reason the person above mentioned. basically asking in this forum what that symptom is caused by is a sissyfian task . you need to uynderstand what i'm trying, poorly, to say and understand the dynamics of your specific soil and ammendments as well as absorption of nutes you use and how they were derived and how that interacts with your chosen medium and other ammendments. for example a chelated forms of nutes is taken up by a plant almost a full ph point lower than a sulfated version of the same nutrient. yet nobody ever says make sure you medium accounts for this. so many factors. even if somebody told you that is a phosphorous deficiency they cannot telkl you why. for example too much cal will lock out potassium and iron and manganese so telling you what the symptom is is not the same as telling you how to fix it. what happens if you fix a p[otassium deficient plant with more potassium iof the deficiency is caused by ph lockout or calcium toxicity? add to this things like mobile and immobile nutrients and you need to edcuate yurself so you can diagnose these yourself. pictyures are not enough for anyone. if anything you are more likely to harm the plant blindly following conclusions not based off fact. i would start with an actual soil ph test then i would assess my medium and nuterienjt feeding compost teas etc and try and make sense of it all so you can build them smartly not throw a bunch of shit other ppl use in a pile and cal it soil
now to the more specifics of what im saying. the coco in addition to making your soil ph higher thsan mixes you buy or usually would make coco also has the ever present issue with cal/mag and has the buterfly effect of potentially locking out potassium and iron especially if you over compensate etc.. it is also of not that some micros absorb a full ph point lower than other nutes so while being at the higher end of the soil ph scale more readily locks out stuff like iron and more problematic phosphorous itself. all this stuff im saying which admittedly im saying poorly adds up to a mix that is incredibly volatile and hard to manage accross a diverse set of plants. now that said i do exacty this minus the perlite despite these negatives. it does however require me to literally test my soils ph the CORRECT WAY not just ph run off. because i re-ammend the same soil from grow to grow ph will always drift upwards ovwr time in my soil so i need to add fgerous sulfate to bring it down into range. if you are to continue using a compost and coco mix you need to seriously check your soil for drift and adjust but the hard part is this adjustment takes 2-3 months so there is no quick fix as stuff like watering with low ph water over tie lowers medium ph is an old wives tale. it is flat out false. in reality ph'ing that is within 1 ph point or so of the medium is not needed at all and in relaity is optimal for it to be slightly hgher or lower than the optimal range of the medium so the swing gives you a larger window of ph for nutes to be abosrbed assuring none are missed because of the mediums ph.
long story short it could be a calcium issue but could also be the early stages of P lockout from high ph soil, K lockout from over supplimenting cal/mag or iron defficiency also from high PH and/or too much calcium supplimentation. though it is admittedly hard to overdue calcium and any organic soil with compost should have more than enough in it though the coco complicates that as we know. . to demo this i have run with 7.4 soil ph and some plants will exibit the sympom yours shows and degrade over time. the key here is some plants because while 7.4 sounds high it is actually the optimal range for almost all the nutes exccept for phosphorus and iron. what makes it hard in coco though is you suually have some plants with some degree of a a cal mag issue whenever you use coco simply for the reason the person above mentioned. basically asking in this forum what that symptom is caused by is a sissyfian task . you need to uynderstand what i'm trying, poorly, to say and understand the dynamics of your specific soil and ammendments as well as absorption of nutes you use and how they were derived and how that interacts with your chosen medium and other ammendments. for example a chelated forms of nutes is taken up by a plant almost a full ph point lower than a sulfated version of the same nutrient. yet nobody ever says make sure you medium accounts for this. so many factors. even if somebody told you that is a phosphorous deficiency they cannot telkl you why. for example too much cal will lock out potassium and iron and manganese so telling you what the symptom is is not the same as telling you how to fix it. what happens if you fix a p[otassium deficient plant with more potassium iof the deficiency is caused by ph lockout or calcium toxicity? add to this things like mobile and immobile nutrients and you need to edcuate yurself so you can diagnose these yourself. pictyures are not enough for anyone. if anything you are more likely to harm the plant blindly following conclusions not based off fact. i would start with an actual soil ph test then i would assess my medium and nuterienjt feeding compost teas etc and try and make sense of it all so you can build them smartly not throw a bunch of shit other ppl use in a pile and cal it soil
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outliergenetix
Well-Known Member
i hav emade my own soil for years i am no expert on store bnought soils and coco mixes. i gave up on those years ago when i realized fox farm and most premium soils are actual crapolla. so sorry i cannot advise there other than i'm pretty sure that is an ammended coco blend further complicating the mix. when i say know what goers in your soil i know what goes in my soil to the point i operate a closed loop system using all my food waste right down to the water i boild beans and bveggies i eat in to my soil. this assures a diverse compost fropm fruits to vegetables etc...most store soils are derived from a limited cheap sopurce of compost lie pine bark, leaf mulch, etc... it is not naturally diverse. this is why they add al this shit to it derived seperatley from their composting of said soil. i go as far as composting all myu food in worm bins and ivory head cockroach biuns thuse keeping pace with my waste disposal needs and providing me with frass, casting etc. basically when i clean my worm bins and roach bins i mix all of that in my soil pile that i draw from when i pot a plant. i keep two huge tubs of soil that i constantly am recycling in additioon to the worm and roach bins. just know even doingh all that and knowing all the nutes any plant needs are in my mix i still would occasionally see stuff like thos spots on some plants and in the end my conclusion is PH of the medium not being monitored enough. it also doesn't hurt to consider foliar spraying cal/mag instead of adding it all the time this way you can adjust it on a plant by plant basis and know the coco isnt interfering there. just know another little known fact about foliar spraying is the soilution almost alwasy needs to be more acidic than you think for example P is absorbed best in a foliar spray arounm 4.5-5 ph it is way less than soiul or hydro its a diff process and foilia solutions are almost always a point or two below solutions for root feeding. i forget the exact ph for optimal cal/mag solution foliar wise but i think it around 5
outliergenetix
Well-Known Member
crushed egshells are awesome but to make the cal soluble you need to soke em in vinegar my man. otherwise it is breaking dowen at the rate of rock phosphate which is slow to not at all lol. i would add though this is exactly how you run into trouble but again i do this myself. its too hard to control amount that way then you are adding another acid in vinegar etc it is too many moving parts it sounds wholesome and organic and that is why i do it but as i said it is hard to overdue calcium but disolving it in vinegar is exactly how you may end upo wioth too much. plus it is not good to add allot of acids to the soil, not for ph reasons either it just has a negative effect overall which is why in organic soil you realy should never ph your taqp water using it evry feeding if ever unless your tap is like 4ph or 8ph or something crazy. organic soil is a buffer and all solutuoin have a speciufic sloped graph associated with the buffering process and as long as the solution or tap water is within reason adding acidic stuff to lower solution is harming the living soil over time. basically use eggshells but know they are slow reacting by years when added cruished and using inegar in a feeding to make it soluble risks toxicity so be careful. too be clear i am talking about ph'ing water to 6.4-6.8 for soil like every guide says. this is wrong. the acid over time is problematic esopecially if like me you re-ammend and recycle soil
Hmm, yeah, i rarely need to ph much, i do used distilled vinegar for down and bicarb for up, I've been using the Ionics Coco veg and bloom as i got the wrong stuff back when i had cash. All this is in a caravan cupboard on solar,wind,gen bavaQB120w 4000k 2700k red,far red and uv.
outliergenetix
Well-Known Member
you only need to ph to make sureit isnt like 4 or 8 man dont adjust your water for a soil grow if it is like 5.4 or 7.5 for example. you need to make sure the actual soil is 6.5 then watever you add to it will be 6.5 when the plant takes it up. it's just how it works as crazy as it seems. it is so much so that if your soil is 7.5 and you water with 6 or 6.5 to compensate it will have 0 effect basically on resolving the ph issue because the solutions ph is basically irrelevent. saturate your soil for an hour or more with a known ph soltuion. when i say saturate though i mean soak to the point it is saurated but isn't running off at all. then in an hour or more squezze the soil in a rag so the liquid goies in a cup. test that water and that is your soil ph basically. ppl test run off which is close in most cases but the hour or more gives it time to go through the curve i mentioned before and settle at the buffed soil ph. then and only then can you squeez and accurately test runnof. prbably best to use a known ph solution to start like uyou would use to set a ph meter
outliergenetix
Well-Known Member
i would watch the vinegar ik how much yo need to use to drop ph 1 point, i've done it. bad idea imo iun the long run. if you are set on not using ph down which is fine i dont use it either use lemons or limes and tap water. first of all plantsd need chlorine and other mineral deposit in tap water anyways and the citric acid in lemons and limes neutralizes microbe killing chloramines. it alsdo has the added benefit of adding sugar foir miucrobes to feed on and i lime in a 5 gallon bucket of 7.5+ tap water will be brought down to 6 or lower. not saying do 6 or lower i am saying though i use about a half lime per bucket personally to de chlorinate my tap water of chloramines because sometimes a whole lime lowers ph more thsan i'd like. not that the solution ph matters but i do think it matters to be consistent and not water with 7.5 one day and 5.5 the next as i think that would negatively impaxct microbes populations
kingromano
Well-Known Member
vinegar not good for ph down