poindexterous
Active Member
Never heard of that before? You're saying the leaves turned white? The chlorine levels we're using are little higher than most city water so that shouldn't happen. Please elaborate on your method...
Bleach instead of H2o2
- Thread starter choempi
- Start date
I think he must have been joking, like clothes turn white etc....
Going to go with a higher dose myself now after reading this. In hydroponics especially a sterile enviroment is essential. Bennificial baterias are almost impossible in a true hydroponic system. Plus you dont really need anythig to help uptake of nutes etc since they are all already available. You just dont have the issues you have with soil with lockout etc. I say kill them all !! =)
choempi
Well-Known Member
My feelings also
sirtom68
Active Member
I have glazed through his thread and may have missed something, but in adding 6 to 8 drops per gallon...is that drops from a dropper? I researched drops per mill and it seems like the standard measurement is 20 drops per mill. Is this the measure that everyone is using? If that is the case then please let me know. Or if I should use a dropper and not the milliliter measurement please let me know. The milliliter measure seems very weak to me but Im just not sure. 
My res. temps reach the mid 80's and there is no way around it....PEACE
My res. temps reach the mid 80's and there is no way around it....PEACE
choempi
Well-Known Member
just a eye dropperI have glazed through his thread and may have missed something, but in adding 6 to 8 drops per gallon...is that drops from a dropper? I researched drops per mill and it seems like the standard measurement is 20 drops per mill. Is this the measure that everyone is using? If that is the case then please let me know. Or if I should use a dropper and not the milliliter measurement please let me know. The milliliter measure seems very weak to me but Im just not sure.
poindexterous
Active Member
I just did a little test to figure this out, and the standard dropper from a tincture bottle that I have made exactly 24 drops from one ML of water. This test is easy with an accurate scale, just drop water from your dropper on your scale till it reads exactly one gram, which one ML/CC of pure water does. For someone with a hundred gallon rez I can see counting 600 to 800 drops will be tedious.I have glazed through his thread and may have missed something, but in adding 6 to 8 drops per gallon...is that drops from a dropper? I researched drops per mill and it seems like the standard measurement is 20 drops per mill. Is this the measure that everyone is using? If that is the case then please let me know. Or if I should use a dropper and not the milliliter measurement please let me know. The milliliter measure seems very weak to me but Im just not sure.
outofbodyspecial
Active Member
Reviving this great thread...
I'm an h2o2 user, and after reading all 15 pages in this theread, I will shift to bleach after finishing my remaining h2o2.
H2o2 is relatively cheap compared to nutes, but I noticed that I use up a lot, coz I use it in my hydro reservoir, and for general cleaning. Ofcourse water is what I use the most in hydro, next is h2o2. Not expensive, but not cheap either when used reguarly, so there's still room for savings.
Based on what I've seen in the stores, bleach (Zonrox, don't know %)is about half the price of h2o2 (6%). Not much right? But the difference is in the usage- for h2o2 I use 10ml/gal. For bleach it's only gonna be .4ml/gal! Do the math, I'm too lazy, lol!
I only touched on the economics of it, and will reserve further judgement until I've actually tried it.
I'm an h2o2 user, and after reading all 15 pages in this theread, I will shift to bleach after finishing my remaining h2o2.
H2o2 is relatively cheap compared to nutes, but I noticed that I use up a lot, coz I use it in my hydro reservoir, and for general cleaning. Ofcourse water is what I use the most in hydro, next is h2o2. Not expensive, but not cheap either when used reguarly, so there's still room for savings.
Based on what I've seen in the stores, bleach (Zonrox, don't know %)is about half the price of h2o2 (6%). Not much right? But the difference is in the usage- for h2o2 I use 10ml/gal. For bleach it's only gonna be .4ml/gal! Do the math, I'm too lazy, lol!
I only touched on the economics of it, and will reserve further judgement until I've actually tried it.
hellraizer30
Rebel From The North
https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/361430-dwc-root-slime-cure-aka.html
Go to this link there info on alteratives to bleach and h202 and there way better for your plant
Go to this link there info on alteratives to bleach and h202 and there way better for your plant
blacktourmaline
Member
Found out where the slime like to hide! Make sure to pop off the back of any pumps where the cord goes in, there are all sort of nasty shit hiding in there. just realized that you can take them off. and scrub like hell!!!
dbkick
Well-Known Member
I've personally used bleach one time with great results, the tops of my plants went a bright yellow for a couple days but after that the roots never looked better. I'm on the fence over the sterile res vrs. bennies just because I run both. sterile in flower and bennies in veg. My bleach experience came awhile back in veg when it was warmer out , I have no chiller in veg and wasn't running bennies and ended up with a slight slime. h2o2 did help but in the end bleach was the sure thing.
hey guys , this pythium blight is doing my head in ! i think i contracted it by bringing in an external cutting from a friend which had been grown in soil, i cloned his purple haze and put it in my nft system along with some others. it went yellow, and i had no clue what it was.
bottom line. i ve bleached i add h202 , i am 1 year on and i have just spotted the dreaded yellow dropping leaves. looked in my DWC tank and yep theres slime on the roots
i have caught it early this time so i think i will be able to control it.
still its a real fucker. basically i am now coming to the conclusion that in order to completely erradicate my pythium root rot infestation is to TRASH everything. i mean EVERYTHING. keep the light and the tent that it
.
maybe evenb the grow room should be changed. completely new strain new everything.
because it infects your entire strain....so every future clone will have the pathogen attached . this is what i am experiencing now.
i thought i got away with it
. i have done lots of reading and i have been adding bottles of frozen water to bring down the nute solition temp. also adding 30% h202 every few days.
its been fine for 5 weeks of VEG growth, with excellent root colour massive roots.
1 church plant and 1 cheese plant in the same DWC. i think the last 3 days the temps have got up and i havent added enough peroxide so now i am fucked. it there i def have the pythium developing.
i cropped 4.5 oz of nice bud of a white widow plant which was badly effected with pythium. this was grown in soil though. i used a little bleach that time. so i reckon i will try adding bleach aswell as filtering dead matter from the nute solution, as well as having an air stone, as well as adding ICE bottles every other day. I have 2 plants ready to go on a 9 week flowering period today. so hopefully the bleach h202 and ICE will help . plus i will try doing water changes with my new water pump, as i dont usually bother changing the reservoir for months! probly why i am in this situation.
basically what i have read is that bleach will control pythium, h202 will do the same. and low temps, so adding ice! pythium spores only start breeding etc when the water is lukewarm. i think when the grow room gets above 32c then you got problems!
what i would like to know is? how much bleach is too much? what sign do i look for on the leaves will they burn>? will the yellowleaves start goin a nice healthy green again? if not too damaged.
i also read that its good to plunge your roots into a STRONg H202 solution for 20 mins
and remove any dead slimney brown roots. you could use a gentle jet spray on the roots maybe.
anyway i would prefer to control my infection than start again
bottom line. i ve bleached i add h202 , i am 1 year on and i have just spotted the dreaded yellow dropping leaves. looked in my DWC tank and yep theres slime on the roots
i have caught it early this time so i think i will be able to control it.
still its a real fucker. basically i am now coming to the conclusion that in order to completely erradicate my pythium root rot infestation is to TRASH everything. i mean EVERYTHING. keep the light and the tent that it
.
maybe evenb the grow room should be changed. completely new strain new everything.
because it infects your entire strain....so every future clone will have the pathogen attached . this is what i am experiencing now.
i thought i got away with it
. i have done lots of reading and i have been adding bottles of frozen water to bring down the nute solition temp. also adding 30% h202 every few days.
its been fine for 5 weeks of VEG growth, with excellent root colour massive roots.
1 church plant and 1 cheese plant in the same DWC. i think the last 3 days the temps have got up and i havent added enough peroxide so now i am fucked. it there i def have the pythium developing.
i cropped 4.5 oz of nice bud of a white widow plant which was badly effected with pythium. this was grown in soil though. i used a little bleach that time. so i reckon i will try adding bleach aswell as filtering dead matter from the nute solution, as well as having an air stone, as well as adding ICE bottles every other day. I have 2 plants ready to go on a 9 week flowering period today. so hopefully the bleach h202 and ICE will help . plus i will try doing water changes with my new water pump, as i dont usually bother changing the reservoir for months! probly why i am in this situation.
basically what i have read is that bleach will control pythium, h202 will do the same. and low temps, so adding ice! pythium spores only start breeding etc when the water is lukewarm. i think when the grow room gets above 32c then you got problems!
what i would like to know is? how much bleach is too much? what sign do i look for on the leaves will they burn>? will the yellowleaves start goin a nice healthy green again? if not too damaged.
i also read that its good to plunge your roots into a STRONg H202 solution for 20 mins
and remove any dead slimney brown roots. you could use a gentle jet spray on the roots maybe.
anyway i would prefer to control my infection than start again
mountainboy
Well-Known Member
Hate to speak for Al B., but I'm sure he disagrees because hes right. He doesent base his answers on guessing. He is renowned for his great knowledge and his decades of experience. He bases everything on scientific fact. His results speak for themselves. If I where you,I would read some of Al's sticky's and research alot more b4 you jump on board with choempi. No offense choempi,but you aint no Al. not even close.
THZZELJR
Active Member
I ran an experiment with bleach on clones. 20gal tote clones from a flowering plant at 11 days into 12/12, in bubblecloner. a few of these clones were from tops others from smaller bottom growth. after 14 days roots are great. never changed water once simply added half cap of bleach every other day. one clone of 10 died.
FilthyFletch
Mr I Can Do That For Half
To each their own but for me I would not use bleach to grow. It is used to clean after a grow but you have to rinse very well as very small amount can kill young plants. Then this is considered an edible or smokeable herb unlike many greenhouses that grow decorative flowers so ingestion of residual bleach can cause lung burn and further health issues. The H202 used for these grows is a food grade certified mix and strength. It can burn your skin right out the bottle but once mixed it disapates quickly and does the job while the left over is broken down into o2 into the water while the hydrogen is used released as a by product.I tried to g over 20 plus years growing I have never encountered a o the links to read the articles but they are not valid links and you get the yahoo error if you click them. me personally in over 20 years of growing have never seen a grower of edibles or smokeables use bleach during an active grow. The basis also follows the fact bleach will kill fungus , mold, bacteria, and algae ie all plants in their own right so to think that which is used to kill plants and those things that may benefit plants doesn't make sense to me. I do love Gro-tech super H202 myself but would never use pure cholrine bleach or smoke anything grown with it...Just the thought of the taste transfer makes me wanna vomit.
THZZELJR
Active Member
just something to think about algae are not plants. Any chemical can kill a plant including nitrogen phosphorus potassium. you drink bleach every single day if you live in America. I want a sterile environment so I am now switching to bleach. the plant will break down bleach it wont be sprayed directly on buds. bleach is simply sodium hydrochlorite salt and sodium water. it will redox with organic material and become innate. lots of fruits including tomatoes are curing by dipping in bleach. seeds are soaked in bleach of all types of fruits and vegetables. as well as some truly scary chemicals such as formaldehyde. and I just found sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) has fungicide properties as well especially useful for powdery mildew. A priori knowledge is not suitable to me though after reading give it try and see.
http://pnwhandbooks.org/plantdisease/node/6190/print
http://agriculturalindustry.info/Plant/Seed-liquor-processing-method-of-nine-14608.html#.UKWqOoZzVX8
http://www.hort.uconn.edu/ipm/homegrnd/htms/51pmorn.htm
http://pnwhandbooks.org/plantdisease/node/6190/print
http://agriculturalindustry.info/Plant/Seed-liquor-processing-method-of-nine-14608.html#.UKWqOoZzVX8
http://www.hort.uconn.edu/ipm/homegrnd/htms/51pmorn.htm
THZZELJR
Active Member
found some research into every aspect of a healthy res: benes, sterilization. http://www.manicbotanix.com/hydroponic-grow-guide/root-disease-prevention-in-hydroponics.html?start=3
Also found the active ingredient of Clear Rez to be chlorine
WARNING - DO NOT USE OXIDANTS WITH ORGANIC MEDIAS OR ORGANIC ADDITIVES: monochloramine, chlorine and hydrogen peroxide are not suitable for use where organic media (e.g. coco substrate) or organic additives are used. These products are oxidants and oxidants break down organic matter.
Monochloramine in Hydroponics
Inorganic chloramines such as monochloramine are formed when chlorine and ammonia are combined in water. One of the key uses for monochloramine is it is used for disinfecting mains water supplies.
Monochloramine is an oxidant. It kills bacteria by penetration of the cell wall and blockage of the metabolism. Monochloramine is considered to have moderate biocidal activity against bacteria.1 While there are more effective products available for eradicating bacteria (e.g. chlorine) these have been deemed unsuitable for use in treating mains water supplies due to the byproducts they form when interacting with organic matter.2 Monochloramine hydrolyses (breaks down) slowly in aqueous solutions, producing hypochlorite (at alkaline pH) or hypochlorous acid (at acid pH).3
Research into the use of monochloramine in other areas suggests that where bacteria are able to attach to surfaces this provides a primary means for bacteria to survive disinfection. Research of K. pneumoniae grown in a high-nutrient medium attached to glass microscope slides demonstrated a 150-fold increase in disinfection resistance.4
Similar findings have been demonstrated in nursery fertigation systems where organic debris or particles prevented direct contact of chlorine (not to be confused monochloramine) with fungal propagules (Phytophthora spp.) and as a result reduced chlorine efficiency.5
This may have implications in hydroponic systems where hosing, pipes, pots, drip emitters and, for that matter, media may offer pathogens protection.
Because monochloramine hydrolyzes (dissipates) slowly careful use is advised. I.e. monochloramine is an oxidant and overuse can result in build up, resulting in fine root hair burning, which will reduce nutrient uptake.
Use of Chlorine (not to be confused with monochloramine) in Hydroponics
A handy tip. Monochloramine sold through the hydro industry can be replaced by chlorine at greatly reduced cost.
Chlorine (Cl) is demonstrated to be a more effective sterilizing agent than monochloramine.1
Research has demonstrated that 0.5ppm (780 mV) of chlorine in greenhouse irrigation systems at pH 6.0 eliminated Phytophthora sp., Fusarium sp. and bacteria within 0.5 minutes of contact time.2 Chlorine efficiency is pH dependent and efficiency at pH 6.0 – 7.5 has been shown to be the ideal (maximum efficiency of chlorine is 6.5). Below pH 6.0 and toxic chlorine gas will be released. Because optimum pH in hydroponics is pH 5.8 – 6.0 this makes chlorine ideal as an effective and low cost sterilizing agent.
Products such as sodium hypochlorite (liquid typically 12.5% chlorine), calcium hypochlorite (bleaching powder/pool chlorine = approx 65% Cl), and chlorine dioxide are cheap sources of chlorine. Take for example calcium hypochlorite at 65% available chlorine. To achieve 0.5ppm chlorine in 100L of solution 0.08 grams would be required. This would mean that 250 grams of sodium hypochlorite would be good for 3125 treatments. The cost of 250grams of sodium hypochlorite is approximately £12.00 in the UK (in small volume purchased online – far cheaper in volume) or less than $20 USD. Now consider this; you would use only 14.6 grams a year to treat 100L every two days, so 17 years of chlorine treatment would cost less than $20.00 USD. When you consider that a 1L monochloramine product is sold through UK hydroponic stores for £30.00 - £34.99 ($49.00 -$57.00 USD) and is used at 0.2mL/L (50 treatments of 100L) the use of chlorine over monochloramine represents massive savings.
Chlorine - Potential Toxicity to Plants
Chlorine obviously has some potential toxicity (phytotoxicity) issues associated to plants, if used at excessive levels – as does monochloramine and hydrogen peroxide. Sensitive plants such as lettuce may be detrimentally affected if chlorine is present in solution at even 1ppm. Less sensitive plants will be tolerant to higher levels.
Research has demonstrated that 2ppm of chlorine at riser outlet, in fertigation systems poses little or no risk of toxicity to the majority of ornamental crops.3 This indicates that treatment with 0.5ppm of chlorine poses very little risk to even sensitive plants.
Treatment
Chlorine hydrolyzes (dissipates) more quickly than monochloramine and, therefore, treatment should take place every two days. Directly after treatment the chlorinated nutrient should be cycled through the growing system to ensure pipes, pots, channels and media are adequately sterilized.
Measuring Chlorine in Solution
ORP Meters
It’s important to note that simply adding oxidants such monochloramine, chlorine and hydrogen peroxide to solution and hoping for the best can only be described as entering the realms of hydro cowboy country. Numerous factors will influence the levels of oxidant (e.g. temp, pH, ionic strength, organic content, dissipation rates, and existing chlorine or monochloramine in the water supply).
The most efficient means of accurately monitoring oxidant levels is through the use of an ORP meter.
ORP is a measurement of ‘Oxidation Reduction Potential’ (mV) most commonly used to measure the effectiveness of water disinfection systems using sanitizers such as chlorine, bromine, ozone, peroxyacetic acid, hydrogen peroxide etc. ORP standards have been long established for water sanitation and are recommended over ppm measurements with traditional test kits. ORP meters are relatively inexpensive (a handheld pen meter should set you back approximately $100 -150 USD) and easy to operate and should be an essential piece of equipment for people using a chlorination system in hydroponics. Optimal ORP for Pythium control with chlorine = 780 mV at pH 6.0
Desired Chlorine in Solution: 0.5ppm – 780 mV
Optimum pH for chlorine treatment in hydroponics: 6.0 (below pH 6.0 will release chlorine gas – above pH 6.0 is less than optimal for nutrient uptake)
Treatment: every two days – if using an ORP meter maintain at 780 mV
Also found the active ingredient of Clear Rez to be chlorine
WARNING - DO NOT USE OXIDANTS WITH ORGANIC MEDIAS OR ORGANIC ADDITIVES: monochloramine, chlorine and hydrogen peroxide are not suitable for use where organic media (e.g. coco substrate) or organic additives are used. These products are oxidants and oxidants break down organic matter.
Monochloramine in Hydroponics
Inorganic chloramines such as monochloramine are formed when chlorine and ammonia are combined in water. One of the key uses for monochloramine is it is used for disinfecting mains water supplies.
Monochloramine is an oxidant. It kills bacteria by penetration of the cell wall and blockage of the metabolism. Monochloramine is considered to have moderate biocidal activity against bacteria.1 While there are more effective products available for eradicating bacteria (e.g. chlorine) these have been deemed unsuitable for use in treating mains water supplies due to the byproducts they form when interacting with organic matter.2 Monochloramine hydrolyses (breaks down) slowly in aqueous solutions, producing hypochlorite (at alkaline pH) or hypochlorous acid (at acid pH).3
Research into the use of monochloramine in other areas suggests that where bacteria are able to attach to surfaces this provides a primary means for bacteria to survive disinfection. Research of K. pneumoniae grown in a high-nutrient medium attached to glass microscope slides demonstrated a 150-fold increase in disinfection resistance.4
Similar findings have been demonstrated in nursery fertigation systems where organic debris or particles prevented direct contact of chlorine (not to be confused monochloramine) with fungal propagules (Phytophthora spp.) and as a result reduced chlorine efficiency.5
This may have implications in hydroponic systems where hosing, pipes, pots, drip emitters and, for that matter, media may offer pathogens protection.
Because monochloramine hydrolyzes (dissipates) slowly careful use is advised. I.e. monochloramine is an oxidant and overuse can result in build up, resulting in fine root hair burning, which will reduce nutrient uptake.
Use of Chlorine (not to be confused with monochloramine) in Hydroponics
A handy tip. Monochloramine sold through the hydro industry can be replaced by chlorine at greatly reduced cost.
Chlorine (Cl) is demonstrated to be a more effective sterilizing agent than monochloramine.1
Research has demonstrated that 0.5ppm (780 mV) of chlorine in greenhouse irrigation systems at pH 6.0 eliminated Phytophthora sp., Fusarium sp. and bacteria within 0.5 minutes of contact time.2 Chlorine efficiency is pH dependent and efficiency at pH 6.0 – 7.5 has been shown to be the ideal (maximum efficiency of chlorine is 6.5). Below pH 6.0 and toxic chlorine gas will be released. Because optimum pH in hydroponics is pH 5.8 – 6.0 this makes chlorine ideal as an effective and low cost sterilizing agent.
Products such as sodium hypochlorite (liquid typically 12.5% chlorine), calcium hypochlorite (bleaching powder/pool chlorine = approx 65% Cl), and chlorine dioxide are cheap sources of chlorine. Take for example calcium hypochlorite at 65% available chlorine. To achieve 0.5ppm chlorine in 100L of solution 0.08 grams would be required. This would mean that 250 grams of sodium hypochlorite would be good for 3125 treatments. The cost of 250grams of sodium hypochlorite is approximately £12.00 in the UK (in small volume purchased online – far cheaper in volume) or less than $20 USD. Now consider this; you would use only 14.6 grams a year to treat 100L every two days, so 17 years of chlorine treatment would cost less than $20.00 USD. When you consider that a 1L monochloramine product is sold through UK hydroponic stores for £30.00 - £34.99 ($49.00 -$57.00 USD) and is used at 0.2mL/L (50 treatments of 100L) the use of chlorine over monochloramine represents massive savings.
Chlorine - Potential Toxicity to Plants
Chlorine obviously has some potential toxicity (phytotoxicity) issues associated to plants, if used at excessive levels – as does monochloramine and hydrogen peroxide. Sensitive plants such as lettuce may be detrimentally affected if chlorine is present in solution at even 1ppm. Less sensitive plants will be tolerant to higher levels.
Research has demonstrated that 2ppm of chlorine at riser outlet, in fertigation systems poses little or no risk of toxicity to the majority of ornamental crops.3 This indicates that treatment with 0.5ppm of chlorine poses very little risk to even sensitive plants.
Treatment
Chlorine hydrolyzes (dissipates) more quickly than monochloramine and, therefore, treatment should take place every two days. Directly after treatment the chlorinated nutrient should be cycled through the growing system to ensure pipes, pots, channels and media are adequately sterilized.
Measuring Chlorine in Solution
ORP Meters
It’s important to note that simply adding oxidants such monochloramine, chlorine and hydrogen peroxide to solution and hoping for the best can only be described as entering the realms of hydro cowboy country. Numerous factors will influence the levels of oxidant (e.g. temp, pH, ionic strength, organic content, dissipation rates, and existing chlorine or monochloramine in the water supply).
The most efficient means of accurately monitoring oxidant levels is through the use of an ORP meter.
ORP is a measurement of ‘Oxidation Reduction Potential’ (mV) most commonly used to measure the effectiveness of water disinfection systems using sanitizers such as chlorine, bromine, ozone, peroxyacetic acid, hydrogen peroxide etc. ORP standards have been long established for water sanitation and are recommended over ppm measurements with traditional test kits. ORP meters are relatively inexpensive (a handheld pen meter should set you back approximately $100 -150 USD) and easy to operate and should be an essential piece of equipment for people using a chlorination system in hydroponics. Optimal ORP for Pythium control with chlorine = 780 mV at pH 6.0
Desired Chlorine in Solution: 0.5ppm – 780 mV
Optimum pH for chlorine treatment in hydroponics: 6.0 (below pH 6.0 will release chlorine gas – above pH 6.0 is less than optimal for nutrient uptake)
Treatment: every two days – if using an ORP meter maintain at 780 mV
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oceangreen
Well-Known Member
neither, use pondzyme, aquasheild, ect.