Bipolar & Cannibus

7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
euthanatos93420 said:
Religion and wisdom are two entirely different things yes. But they are intertwined so deeply that the degenration of one invariably produces the degeneration of the other within the individual. So insulting one is by proxy and insult to the other.
Click to expand...

you know what, if i wanted to insult your religion it would go like this: mixing the bible in with other random assortments of "wisdom" is playing with fire. by picking and choosing or playing mix and match with truth from God (bible) and inventions of man (everything else) you are inviting chaos.

that's how i would put it if i wanted to do such a thing.

what i was saying is that YOU WILL NOT BECOME WISE only by reading stuff. that's it, doesn't happen, won't happen, not how human beings work - case closed. reading CAN give you understanding if you let it, understanding CAN lead to knowledge if you let it, knowledge CAN lead to wisdom if you let it.

sorry, there isn't a short cut. good luck.






.
 
mogie

mogie

Well-Known Member
Very true there is no shortcut. Some of the most important of life's lessons are only learned by experience or street smarts.

The Bible is interperted by men. And look at all the different versions. Which one is right? Who has the real word of God? So therefore it is already flawed.
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
mogie said:
The Bible is interperted by men. And look at all the different versions. Which one is right? Who has the real word of God? So therefore it is already flawed.
Click to expand...

yes, the bible was given to men, people do contort and pervert it but these efforts do not affect the reality of the truth it contains. the real word of God is there for the taking, for everyone; this makes it flawless and perfect.




.
 
mogie

mogie

Well-Known Member
But different versions say differnet things. Just like differnet religions believe different things. Which one is right. Do we go to church on Saturday or Sunday? Did Jesus die on Wednesday or Friday? Did he rise on Fiday or Sunday? Did he establish a Catholic church or is that a perversion of His word? Does the pope speak for God? We can't even agree on these things. How can we claim to know his true word.
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
WAIVER:
i'm not a theologian, apologist, pastor or anything special. i took one theology class, it was harder than organic chem and i barely got out of there with a C (it was a tough semester) so this is just my limited understanding, as a Christian.


mogie said:
But different versions say differnet things.
Click to expand...
if you have one version that contradicts the other go to the previous version and distill, if needed go back further.. this is what theologians and linguists do all of their lives. the one with the most recent deviations should be discarded before it propagates, like a plant with weak traits, before it spreads and deceives people.


mogie said:
Just like differnet religions believe different things. Which one is right.
Click to expand...
simple, the one that takes you to God. that's why i'm a Christian. :)

mogie said:
Do we go to church on Saturday or Sunday?
Click to expand...
Christians are the Church, there is no going, there is only being.

mogie said:
Did Jesus die on Wednesday or Friday?
Click to expand...
He rose three days later, that's all that matters.

mogie said:
Did he rise on Fiday or Sunday?
Click to expand...
He rose, that's all that matters!

mogie said:
Did he establish a Catholic church or is that a perversion of His word?
Click to expand...
all i know for sure is what the bible says and does not say. He established the Church and i am sure that many catholics are part of the Church. you can check out the book of Revelation to see that God is clearly displeased with several "churches" at the end-times, sorting out which ones is not a task He left to me.

mogie said:
Does the pope speak for God?
Click to expand...
ask the pope, i do not speak for him! :) i do believe that God has used popes to further His ministry. the important thing to know is that Jesus is the head of the Church and everyone who is part of the body is under Him but we are still part of Him too! we all have different gifts, great and bold speakers get to serve Him just like everyone else.

mogie said:
We can't even agree on these things. How can we claim to know his true word.
Click to expand...
what is it that we do not agree on?





7x
.
 
mogie

mogie

Well-Known Member
Some people believe that prayer cures all.

Some people that the scriptures so literally that they won't even drive on the Sabbath. And if you read the Bible they are not incorrect they are just taking everything too far.

Some folks think thou shalt not kill applies to the unborn.

Some people say the 10 commandment were done away with.

Some folks think a women can't be a pastor.

These are a things that people can back up using the Bible. Man corrupted the Word of God when they began interrupting it. The phrases used by Jesus were as closely as possible translated. But if I say I hit the wall and you translate that in another language it doesn't always make sense.

Compare the different translations side by side. I have a Greek/Hebrew/English Interlinear and Strong's Concordance. They both have been a great help in this study. Also haved compared the Jewish version by laying a Jewish Bible next to those and comparing the same scripture. You should see the differences.
 
A

anonymous lee

Active Member
"Underneath the superficial self, which pays attention to this and that, there is another self more really us than I. And the more you become aware of the unknown self -- if you become aware of it -- the more you realize that it is inseparably connected with everything else that is. You are a function of this total galaxy, bounded by the Milky Way, and this galaxy is a function of all other galaxies. You are that vast thing that you see far, far off with great telescopes. You look and look, and one day you are going to wake up and say, "Why, that's me!" And in knowing that, you know that you never die. You are the eternal thing that comes and goes, that appears -- now as John Jones, now as Mary Smith, now as Betty Brown -- and so it goes, forever and ever and ever." - Alan Watts
 
euthanatos93420

euthanatos93420

Well-Known Member
ALL RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RELIGIOUS CONVERSATION ON THIS THREAD CEASES NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOT ONE MORE WORD!!! For those interested I shall Respond to 7xstall comments in the spirituallity forum and edit a link into this post after I have done so. THERE AND ONLY THERE we may continue this religious discusion. This has gone from debating mental illness and medical MJ to religion. I would appreciated it if my thread were'nt taken on this tangent any further.

Thank you.

P.S. All those wishing to comment on Bipolar & cannibus (the original topic) may do so freely. Discussion of how spirituality fits into this is a NATURAL topic. Feel free to include it in your post. DO NOT HOWEVER continue this ENDLESS religious debate on my thread, thank you.
 
A

anonymous lee

Active Member
For me, spirituality was a great part of the troubles that plauged me; much like it is with the alcoholic. The non-physical "Bipolar" part of me that oscillated from the normal and the stable to the uncontrollable and the insane essentially came down to questions of spiritual awareness...Who and what am I? What needs (conscience or otherwise) am I serving by acting the way that I do? What is my place in the universe? Do I really want to die, or do I just not want to feel this way anymore? Do I feel that all of this is my fault? If so, then why? etc. etc. etc...Learning to become OK with everything that I am (and everything that I'm not) was as crucial to my recovery as was learning to take care of my health. Kill the body and the head will die, and vice versa...Finding that balance, that Middle Way, proved to be more effective for me than any pill man could offer me. But that's just me. By taking care of my body and making peace with myself, I was making peace with God (as I understand It), and in turn God rewarded me with the peace that my life was missing. What could be more spiritual than that?
 
mogie

mogie

Well-Known Member
Or by making peace with your body did your body just reward you by starting to work right?
 
euthanatos93420

euthanatos93420

Well-Known Member
So I didn't post an alternative place to debate religion...if you want it post it yourself but still keep that off my forum.

As for Magick and God...read your fucking bible...thats where I get my magick from. You'll for one read a host of stories about ancient magi. Read deeper and study the history of the book and surrounding culture. Get your hands on some of the apocrypha. I could argue all day how God is the source of real magick (I mean..if he weren't..it wouldn't be real magick). But in the end it's just an argument and nothing I say will open your mind. However the violence may. Incidentally I found Peter Carrol to be very enlighting. Also someone relayed to me several Ideas by Sylvia Brown I intend to look into. Yes, yes, I laughed too but I had heard enough shit to piqued my interest. So I will read. TTFN
 
mbud

mbud

Active Member
Ok! Back to the mental health part.

There is so much here that causes me worry.

Firstly, I aswell am Manic Depressive and use pot to manage my moods. Prescription drugs have not worked for me in the past. They have induced suicidal intentions, increased anxieties and phyical pain, caused internal bleeding(once), and plainly to the life from me. To live as a zombie is not much of a life. Having Bipolar Disorder is never fun but, for myself, to take away the feeling of being yourself is a punisment not help. Of all the research I have done on the treatment of Bipolar the is no drug that give releif without causing someother health related drawback. True, some people are lucky and are able to find meds that work well for them but for the rest of us its a long trial and error process.
I don't think it right for individuals who don't have, (ie. have no idea of what it's like to have this illness and feel it's symptoms), to pass advice on such things. That direction, mogie, does not work well with us. Being agressive and insistant, blaming the patient, more times than not will only inflame the temper of Bipolar patients. Believe me, you have no idea of how the tone of word flares up the brain. It bring out the agression and fever that then fuels the argument and the further unreseptiveness to advise.

But foremost, my concerns are with the creater of this thread. Hitting brick wall, at any time, is not a good thing. If you have to assault something please hit on the couch or a pillow. You know 'soft' things. If you have such rages then you surly do not have your illness under control.
Have you ever heard of the term 'fanatic' - n. person obsessivly devoted to a belief, activity, etc.-adj. excessively enthusiastic. With all do respect to your chosen faith the intensity of your convictions is evident. Have you reread any of you entries...and been able to say that they are sound...and from a clear mind? I too am a Manic Depressive that has been give the 'gift' of reason with my illness...it is not so uncommon.
You may not need to get back on meds but you should see someone to help you see the bigger picture, as some has suggested. I don't take meds but I do regularly check in with a Doctor and a Counciler. It allows me to talk about my thoughts, ideas, emotions and how to cope with the challages over short periods. The release that comes from such help is very important. Books do not talk back, nor help to develop sound opinions and ideas. Without others to guide and talk with then one is left to one's own interpretaion. I myself have to admit that if I have a ill mind then I surley can't fully rely on its power of interpritation.
Lastly, I an totally disgusted that you, euthan., have the audasity to think that you can lead another person in either Wisdom or Religion. Helping people is not done by telling people what to do/how to live, but by guiding them to professionals/experts who can adress their needs.

As for Magick and God...read your fucking bible...
Click to expand...
I love that line. It truely encompasses the values of the Book. Well done.
 
mbud

mbud

Active Member
Here is part of on article on the issue. ​

Cannabinoids in bipolar affective
disorder: a review and discussion
of their therapeutic potential​

C. H. Ashton
Department of Psychiatry, University of Newcastle upon Tyne, Royal Victoria Infirmary, Newcastle

upon Tyne, UK.


P. B. Moore ​


Department of Psychiatry, University of Newcastle upon Tyne, Royal Victoria Infirmary, Newcastle upon

Tyne, UK.


P. Gallagher ​


Department of Psychiatry, University of Newcastle upon Tyne, Royal Victoria Infirmary, Newcastle

upon Tyne, UK.


A. H. Young ​


Department of Psychiatry, University of Newcastle upon Tyne, Royal Victoria Infirmary, Newcastle

upon Tyne, UK.​



Bipolar affective disorder is often poorly controlled by prescribed drugs.


Cannabis use is common in patients with this disorder and anecdotal


reports suggest that some patients take it to alleviate symptoms of both


mania and depression. We undertook a literature review of cannabis use


by patients with bipolar disorder and of the neuropharmacological


properties of cannabinoids suggesting possible therapeutic effects in


this condition. No systematic studies of cannabinoids in bipolar disorder


were found to exist, although some patients claim that cannabis


relieves symptoms of mania and/or depression. The cannabinoids


Δ​


9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD) may exert​

sedative, hypnotic, anxiolytic, antidepressant, antipsychotic and​
​


anticonvulsant effects. Pure synthetic cannabinoids, such as dronabinol​
​


and nabilone and specific plant extracts containing THC, CBD, or a​
​


mixture of the two in known concentrations, are available and can be​
​


delivered sublingually. Controlled trials of these cannabinoids as​
​


adjunctive medication in bipolar disorder are now indicated.​



Keywords


bipolar disorder, cannabidiol, cannabinoids, cannabis, CBD, depression,

dronabinol, mania, nabilone, tetrahydrocannabinol, THC

Introduction​


The treatment of bipolar affective disorder (BAD) remains problematic​
​


despite several guidelines or consensus statements (Sachs


et al.​


, 2000; Geddes and Goodwin, 2001; Goodwin, 2003; Lloyd

et al.​


, 2003). The mean time to relapse after the first episode is 5

years (Geddes ​


et al., 2003) and periods of remission shorten as the

illness progresses, regardless of treatment. Most patients with BAD


are prescribed a combination of drugs, all of which have their disadvantages.


Lithium, although efficacious, has limited effectiveness


because of low acceptance and occurrences of mania on withdrawal.


Many anticonvulsants can produce unacceptable sideeffects


(Porter ​


et al., 1999; Ashton and Young, 2003). Sodium

valproate, the most commonly prescribed mood stabilizer, carries


risks in women of childbearing age (Committee on Safety of


Medicines, 2003; Goodwin and Sachs, 2004). Lamotrogine,


although effective in biplar depression, requires careful dosage


control to prevent skin complications, which may prove to be


serious. Conventional antidepressants and electroconvulsive therapy


can induce mood elevation, which may progress to rapid mood


cycling. Antipsychotic drugs have many undesirable effects and the


atypical antipsychotics quetiapine, olanzapine and risperidone


have all been reported to induce mania in some cases (Mishra ​


et

al.​


, 2004). Psychosocial measures have been shown to complement

medication, but they remain at an early stage of development and


their widespread use is limited by available resources.​


 
mbud

mbud

Active Member
Thus, there is a clear need to explore new ways of managing
bipolar disorder. Patient reports and observations, backed by
known pharmacology, suggest that the cannabis derivatives​
Δ​
​
9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD) may have
mood stabilizing properties. The present study aimed to review the​

evidence for this. The use of controlled substances in medicine is
widespread, especially in children with psychological difficulties
and in pain management. Nevertheless, the consequences of extending
the use of controlled substances need careful consideration.
It is well known that there is a high prevalence of comorbid
drug abuse in people with BAD (Brown​
​
et al., 2001). A 61% lifetime
prevalence of substance abuse in Bipolar I patients and 48%
in Bipolar II patients has been reported compared to 6% in the general
population (Regier et al., 1990). Some studies have provided
data on individual drugs that are abused by these patients (Estroff​

et al.​
​
​
, 1985; Miller et al., 1989; Regier et al., 1990; Marken et al.,
1992; Mueser et al., 1992; Sonne et al., 1994; Winokur et al.,
1998). The results indicate high rates of lifetime use of cannabis
(30–64%) and stimulants (amphetamines 31–39%, cocaine
15–39%) and lower rates for opiates (6–25%). The extent to which
bipolar patients use cannabis as self-medication is not clear,
although anecdotal reports suggest that some patients find it alleviates
both depression (Gruber et al., 1996) and mania (Grinspoon
and Bakalar, 1998). Although cannabis can cause adverse effects,
including psychosis and mania, some cannabinoids have properties
that could be of value in psychiatric disorders, and a literature
review was therefore undertaken to investigate their therapeutic​

potential in bipolar affective disorder.
Methods​
Electronic searches for relevant papers were performed, employing
Medline (1966 to present), Embase (1980 to present), ISI Web of
Science (1990 to present) and Psychoinfo (earliest available to
present). Search terms were ‘bipolar’, ‘manic depression’, ‘mania’,
‘antidepressant’, ‘antimanic’, ‘mood stabilizer’, ‘cannabinoid’,
tetrahydrocannabinol’, ‘THC’, ‘cannabidiol’, ‘CBD’, ‘cannabis,
“marijuana”, ‘nabilone’ and ‘dronabinol’.
In addition, Medline reviews and investigations of pharmacological,
psychiatric and therapeutic effects of cannabis/cannabinoids
(1970–2003) were consulted and a manual searching of all​
relevant articles was performed.
 
mbud

mbud

Active Member
Results​
The literature search revealed no systematic studies of the therapeutic
use of cannabis or cannabinoids in BAD, although there are
several anecdotal reports. Grinspoon and Bakalar (1998) described
five cases in which cannabis appeared to alleviate mania. For
example, one woman with BAD quoted in their report chose
cannabis over alcohol to control her manic behaviour: ‘A few puffs
of this herb and I can be calm … this drug seems harmless
compared to other drugs I have tried, including tranquillisers and
lithium’. A husband, describing his wife with BAD said: ‘My wife
functions much better when she uses marijuana. When she is hypomanic,
it relaxes her, helps her sleep, and slows her speech down.
When she is depressed and would otherwise lie in bed all day, the
marijuana makes her more active … Lithium is also effective, but
it doesn’t always keep her in control’.
Personal observation of a patient attending the local outpatients
also indicated an apparent antimanic effect of cannabis. The patient
was a 39-year-old male who had been diagnosed 10 years previously
as having BAD. His illness mainly took the form of manic
episodes for which he had a history of five hospital admissions.
These episodes were difficult to control because the patient was
intolerant of antipsychotic drugs, including quetiapine and risperidone,
and non-compliant with lithium and sodium valproate.
Diazepam controlled his symptoms but he often used up his
2-week prescription for 30 mg daily in 1 week.
A recent manic episode was associated with a severe behaviour
disturbance involving a further possible detention order. The psychiatrist
was called for a home visit, which he made some hours
later. To his surprise, he found the patient calm, almost serene,
sitting tranquilly in an armchair smoking a cannabis ‘spliff’. (He
offered the psychiatrist one of the same, which was declined). It
was clear that the cannabis was responsible for the rapid change in
the patient’s behaviour. He maintained that, over the years, he had
taken mainly cannabis, sometimes moderate amounts of alcohol,
occasionally ‘street’ benzodiazepines, and infrequently heroin to
regulate his mood.
Gruber​
​
et al. (1996) described five cases in which marijuana
appeared to produce a direct antidepressant effect. Three of these
patients had BAD and all but one found that marijuana relieved
their depression better than standard antidepressant drugs. Two
surveys of medicinal cannabis use in California, where this use is
legalized, showed that 15–27% of patients were prescribed it for
mood disorders, including depression, post-traumatic stress disorder,
BAD and attention deficit disorder resistant to conventional
pharmacotherapy (Gieringer, 2003).
It is noteworthy that, in the anecdotal reports, cannabis was not
taken for the ‘high’ sought by recreational users and it is possible
that its effects are different when taken in subeuphoric doses for
medical reasons, such as in multiple sclerosis or pain conditions
(Randall, 1991; Hodges, 1993). The effects are most probably due
to cannabinoids present in cannabis smoke, including Δ9-THC,
CBD and possibly others, which have been less studied. Patients’
accounts and the advances in the understanding of cannabinoid
physiology suggest that they may have a therapeutic potential in​

BAD (Pertwee, 1999a,b).


I hope I didn't piss anyone off by putting such a large post here. Sorry if I did.
 
mogie

mogie

Well-Known Member
It is scary when people think that they can play doctor when it comes to something as complex as the brain.
 
Lacy

Lacy

New Member
I have to agree with what Mogie is saying here. The bible has sooooooooooo many interpretations by so many different religions. It was created by man.....not GOD.

This thread deals with a very delicate subject that I am not even sure how to respond but I can relate to what you are all saying.

I am definitely going to have to post in this thread later on as I have been diagnosed with bi-polar for 30 years now and have a lot to say on the subject.

mogie said:
Very true there is no shortcut. Some of the most important of life's lessons are only learned by experience or street smarts.

The Bible is interperted by men. And look at all the different versions. Which one is right? Who has the real word of God? So therefore it is already flawed.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top