Biden's Border Crisis

Do you approve of Biden's Border Policy?

  • Total voters
    39
natureboygrower said:
I agree. Getting folks off the street requires mental and drug counseling/detox first. Healing the sick may involve a lot more than a 30 day rehab though, especially when a lot of drug addiction is caused by a mental illness going back to a shitty childhood caused by shitty parents. Years and years of trauma and undiagnosed illnesses takes time and resources. Some addicts require up to a year in house then a sober living facility once out. Getting people sober and staying sober will be about as easy as keeping drugs out of the country, but it doesn't mean it's not doable or worth trying to fix.

I dont think a war against the Cartel is a good idea for obvious reason. But I do feel some pressure needs to put on them in some sort of way.They'll only gain more power and support otherwise.
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Biden ought to get permission from the mexican prez to send in the troops. Could have another vietnam gig in no time. Good for the economy! :D
 
natureboygrower said:
You dont think the pounds of fentanyl coming in daily isn't a crisis? If it isn't flat out causing ods/deaths it's keeping people on the streets due to their addictions. . . . . . . . . . . .
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Drugs come over at points of entry. The way it works is a person working one of the lanes is in the employ of the cartels. They send a car through to see which lane he is working, then they call the guys with the drugs and they get in that lane.

I forget if it was Bush Jr or Sr, but one of them hired several hundred BG all at once. There was such a rush that they skipped some of the vetting, including the lie detector test. Needless to say, when they got around to it, they found a lot of those guys were bent. Greed still works.
 
Fogdog said:
The war on drugs is why those cartels have so much money and power in the first place.

End that damn thing and put resources into healing the sick. So many problems can be solved by that very first act.
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It's vile when you'd see cops down South seizing vehicles over 25$ worth of grass,or colored people getting mental sentences for a couple rocks of crack while powder was less punishable. You know it's ironic,I was on a 26yr. choo-choo train w/opioids,never dope,just pharmacuticals, worked,exercised,and was a "functional junkie", my buddie would say it's getting tough to score w/doctors,pain clinics,etc. I'd say why doesn't the Cartel make pills,theres a whole market of people who don't touch heroin or needles. Bam.I finally decide it's time to stop and a yr.or 2 later knock off perc 30's are all over,I count my lucky stars,what I don't get is how the Cartels FK up the formula and kill their customers,even though they're using fentanyl in place of oxycodone you'd think they'd have the proper measurements nailed w/ their scientists on the payroll. Anyway I'm thankful to be out and it's heartbreaking to see all these kids dead and the poor parents devastated.
 
CCGNZ said:
It's vile when you'd see cops down South seizing vehicles over 25$ worth of grass,or colored people getting mental sentences for a couple rocks of crack while powder was less punishable. You know it's ironic,I was on a 26yr. choo-choo train w/opioids,never dope,just pharmacuticals, worked,exercised,and was a "functional junkie", my buddie would say it's getting tough to score w/doctors,pain clinics,etc. I'd say why doesn't the Cartel make pills,theres a whole market of people who don't touch heroin or needles. Bam.I finally decide it's time to stop and a yr.or 2 later knock off perc 30's are all over,I count my lucky stars,what I don't get is how the Cartels FK up the formula and kill their customers,even though they're using fentanyl in place of oxycodone you'd think they'd have the proper measurements nailed w/ their scientists on the payroll. Anyway I'm thankful to be out and it's heartbreaking to see all these kids dead and the poor parents devastated.
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The Cartels know what they are doing. They spike the other drugs they sell, such as cocaine and oxy with fentanyl to bump up sales because it enhances the high (assuming the dealer doesn't fuck up and OD their customers, that's bad for business). I recall reading about it being found in weed too, but that might be some DEA fear mongering.

But addicts react differently than you or I would to reports that a dealer's stuff killed somebody. A few years ago, I heard a report from France where the person interviewed said that addicts will seek out the seller when they hear that somebody accidentally OD's. They want it because it is potent.

Good for you that you kicked the perc habit. I hear that's a hard one to kick, especially cold. Kudos
 
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Fogdog said:
The Cartels know what they are doing. They spike the other drugs they sell, such as cocaine and oxy with fentanyl to bump up sales because it enhances the high (assuming the dealer doesn't fuck up and OD their customers, that's bad for business). I recall reading about it being found in weed too, but that might be some DEA fear mongering.

But addicts react differently than you or I would to reports that a dealer's stuff killed somebody. A few years ago, I heard a report from France where the person interviewed said that addicts will seek out the seller when they hear that somebody accidentally OD's. They want it because it is potent.

Good for you that you kicked the perc habit. I hear that's a hard one to kick, especially cold. Kudos
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Thanks,man,I guess my habit would be classified as moderate but 26 yrs. is the def. of chronic,after that amount of time,it's always w/you.
I hear what you're saying but it's sinister and makes no sense. For eg. say I'm going to a party and I'm going to do some drinking and socializing,I don't want to get tired and want some coke to stay up,now I'm just a recreational user who just wanted a little blow to stay up and never did opiates,then what the hell do I want fentanyl spiking my coke,it's the opposite effect and could kill me since I have zero opioid tolerance,this isn't a deal where the person knows they're gonna get a speedball effect. From what I hear fentanyl sucks,I know users and they wish heroin was still around w/out fentanyl cut into it,the reason I'm told is heroin has(legs),it's not as intense but lasts longer.In other words a heroin ride might be good for 6-8 hrs. where as fentanyl might have one craving another blast in 3-4 hrs.I also apologize for getting off track here w/one thing,the border,leading to another and another.
 
CCGNZ said:
Thanks,man,I guess my habit would be classified as moderate but 26 yrs. is the def. of chronic,after that amount of time,it's always w/you.
I hear what you're saying but it's sinister and makes no sense. For eg. say I'm going to a party and I'm going to do some drinking and socializing,I don't want to get tired and want some coke to stay up,now I'm just a recreational user who just wanted a little blow to stay up and never did opiates,then what the hell do I want fentanyl spiking my coke,it's the opposite effect and could kill me since I have zero opioid tolerance,this isn't a deal where the person knows they're gonna get a speedball effect. From what I hear fentanyl sucks,I know users and they wish heroin was still around w/out fentanyl cut into it,the reason I'm told is heroin has(legs),it's not as intense but lasts longer.In other words a heroin ride might be good for 6-8 hrs. where as fentanyl might have one craving another blast in 3-4 hrs.I also apologize for getting off track here w/one thing,the border,leading to another and another.
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We got onto the track of discussing drug abuse (or more accurately put, I got onto this track) when reactionary posts were made proclaiming that the border crisis was actually fentanyl smuggled into this country by illegals and so, we need more border control agents, dogs, and technology. I asserted that this is just another boost in the war on drugs which, if any website can be said to have people with experience on the matter it is this one, has proven to be an abject failure. So, here we are talking about cartels and their product being spiked with fentanyl in order to enhance sales. I don't deal or buy stuff that comes from the black market and so don't claim first hand knowledge. All I know is what I read and I've read that the reason fentanyl is showing up in black market drugs is because dealers think it will enhance sales.

Getting back to the OP. I'm just saying that illegal drug trafficking across the Mexico-US border can't be stopped by more agents or dogs. Nor will we stop the flow of undocumented migrants into this country by cruel actions, a wall or, as authoritarians always advise, more guards. That would be doing the same thing over and over. Each time expecting a different result.

Regardless of how we should approach and attack the surge in undocumented migrants to this country, the claim that they are bringing fentanyl with them is baseless. Almost all interdictions where illegal drugs are seized at the border involve US citizens who are trying to smuggle it across a designated checkpoint at the border. Not in backpacks of migrants who crossed illegally.
 
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Fogdog said:
when reactionary posts were made proclaiming that the border crisis was actually fentanyl smuggled into this country by illegals and so, we need more border control agents, dogs, and technology.
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Bro, this is why the politics section is mainly made up of you and few others who agree with you.
I never said what you claimed above ,or migrants bringing fent in, but go ahead and pigeon hole me into the narrative that fits for you.
You want to "fix" all the addicts out there and that will curb the drug flow, nice idea, how many years you suppose that will take? Whats your plan on that? How did the 80's "Just Say No" campaign work out if you're thinking about taking preventative measures to stop people from starting drugs?
Go talk to some street junkies in Portland and see how easy it will be to "fix" the drug problem.
 
Fogdog said:
I recall reading about it being found in weed too, but that might be some DEA fear mongering.
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I never believed that either when I was younger. My wife is a substance use case manager, the number of test strips she has to give her clients to test their buds has me singing a different tune
 
natureboygrower said:
Bro, this is why the politics section is mainly made up of you and few others who agree with you.
I never said what you claimed above ,or migrants bringing fent in, but go ahead and pigeon hole me into the narrative that fits for you.
You want to "fix" all the addicts out there and that will curb the drug flow, nice idea, how many years you suppose that will take? Whats your plan on that? How did the 80's "Just Say No" campaign work out if you're thinking about taking preventative measures to stop people from starting drugs?
Go talk to some street junkies in Portland and see how easy it will be to "fix" the drug problem.
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I don't know who said it but somebody talked about needing more agents, dogs and technology at the border to stop fentanyl. Somebody conflated that with cartels and coyotes.

Don't forget this is a thread about "Biden's Border Crisis" so, tossing all that together, seems to be to be just one big pile of bullshit.

I disagree that we need more border agents, dogs and technology to "stop fentanyl". I point out that the War on Drugs has gone on for 50 years and its not hard for me to conclude that maybe we should stop layering more resources onto what is clearly not working.

It was my post in this thread that pointed out that Oregon is the only state that is even trying to address the problem in a different way. I pointed out in that post that three years in, things are not better and probably worse. Portland Oregon has had more issues with the drug crisis in this country, not fewer. The knee jerk reaction from the authoritarian right is to scrap the idea altogether and go back to what? They want to scrap something that we've been trying for less than three years because it "isn't working" and go back the dumbass War on Drugs model that has not worked for 50 years. Is that what you want?

I don't have all the answers nor do I need to have all the answers to the drugs problem in this country to say that law enforcement isn't the place I'd look for solutions. We ought to look for answers elsewhere. Portugal gives us some clues. Maybe looking at what Portland did that isn't working also provides clues. Maybe there are clues in the differences between the US and societies that are similar to the US and DON'T have the same rates of drug addiction. Maybe it's the US society that is sick, not just drug abusers.
 
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Fogdog said:
We got onto the track of discussing drug abuse (or more accurately put, I got onto this track) when reactionary posts were made proclaiming that the border crisis was actually fentanyl smuggled into this country by illegals and so, we need more border control agents, dogs, and technology. I asserted that this is just another boost in the war on drugs which, if any website can be said to have people with experience on the matter it is this one, has proven to be an abject failure. So, here we are talking about cartels and their product being spiked with fentanyl in order to enhance sales. I don't deal or buy stuff that comes from the black market and so don't claim first hand knowledge. All I know is what I read and I've read that the reason fentanyl is showing up in black market drugs is because dealers think it will enhance sales.

Getting back to the OP. I'm just saying that illegal drug trafficking across the Mexico-US border can't be stopped by more agents or dogs. Nor will we stop the flow of undocumented migrants into this country by cruel actions, a wall or, as authoritarians always advise, more guards. That would be doing the same thing over and over. Each time expecting a different result.

Regardless of how we should approach and attack the surge in undocumented migrants to this country, the claim that they are bringing fentanyl with them is baseless. Almost all interdictions where illegal drugs are seized at the border involve US citizens who are trying to smuggle it across a designated checkpoint at the border. Not in backpacks of migrants who crossed illegally.
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I agree 100%,I don't like it at all when our govt. gets heavy handed over imports of drugs when the simple fact is it's OUR DEMAND that fuels it all,and bro it's in demand in the USA, I don't know if we are just weak or our society produces a rat race leading people to need a coping mechanism or from the 60's onward it's a built in right of passage thing,or something else entirely. What I do know is we promote Capitalism as a model in which supply/demand is a central tenet and we as a nation have a huge demand and I'm reasonably confident that a portion of Mexico's economy is built on supplying that demand,Miami was built w/cocaine $ and I'm sure narco proceeds have a heavy influence in Mexico beyond bribery. The solution to the problem must come from within through ,as you advocate ,treatment and personal choice and a change in culture. It's always been paradoxical on one end the warnings on the other the glamorization through celebrities and pop culture.
 
BudmanTX said:
as i always said repug don't wanna do anything at the border except point......technically it's really all they have....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1742667697832280296

yeah border patrol don't need any money eh Maga Mike, they don't need 14bil........
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That clip seems to be cut off before he could say anything other than the No-no . . .

Tad out of context somewhat akin to what the repubs like to do to make Biden look bad.

Surely we're better than stooping to their level.

We just have to point out the truth to make repubs look bad.

:peace:
 
OldMedUser said:
That clip seems to be cut off before he could say anything other than the No-no . . .

Tad out of context somewhat akin to what the repubs like to do to make Biden look bad.

Surely we're better than stooping to their level.

We just have to point out the truth to make repubs look bad.

:peace:
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It's a xitter of a thing, no doubt. Xitter is not the place to get information.

Xo, yes the xheet was manipultated.

Then again, Johnson is the bigger xhithead:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/03/politics/mike-johnson-jake-tapper-interview/index.html

House Speaker Mike Johnson knocks Biden for ‘catastrophe’ at border during Texas visit

“This catastrophe can come to an end if the Biden administration will do its job, and they refuse to do it,” he said.

Johnson argued that the problem wasn’t going to be solved simply with more money – the Biden administration requested in its supplemental $14 billion for the border along with additional funds for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan – and said that the House-passed provisions were needed to reduce the number of people crossing the border.
“This is not about sending more money down here, it’s about changing the policy, and the White House seems not to understand that,” Johnson said.

The little xhit is creating the crisis by witholding funds and then criticizing Biden for the crisis that the House MAGA are creating. They even have the nerve to claim DHS officials side with them. But this is what DHS is saying:

Mayorkas, however, said during an apperance on “CNN This Morning” on Wednesday that the border security funding is needed “now.”
In the absence of a border deal, Mayorkas warned, “We will not have the resources to perform our jobs as fully and completely as we could do so. And that would be a very sad state of affairs.”

“We need additional personnel to advance our security at the border. We need technology to advance our fight against fentanyl. We need additional asylum officers to really accelerate the asylum adjudication process,” he said.


So, yes, the xheet on xhitter cut Johnson off to manipulate the message and make Johnson look foolish. That is true. But the message, I think spoke truth. Maybe I missed something but its clear to me that Johnson has created a mess and is standing over it demanding Biden apologize before he's even allowed to clean it up.

What did Biden say in that message, one might ask?

The White House national security supplemental request also includes $14 billion in border security, and Biden on Tuesday urged Congress to provide the funding.

“We gotta do something. They ought to give me the money I need to protect the border,” Biden said when asked by a reporter what he is going to do about the Southern border.

Seems that Biden is calling Johnson's bet and raising him. Congress wants Biden to do stupid things and fuck up the works even more. Built the wall, for example. So, it seems that Biden hasn't budged. We'll see how this works out. But Biden, I think, holds the stronger hand. He has the facts on his side, Johnson holds the joker.
 
OldMedUser said:
That clip seems to be cut off before he could say anything other than the No-no . . .

Tad out of context somewhat akin to what the repubs like to do to make Biden look bad.

Surely we're better than stooping to their level.

We just have to point out the truth to make repubs look bad.

:peace:
Click to expand...

An aside, but imo, CNN is no better or worse than the rest of them - partisan and divisive. I literally canceled cable because I could not stand to see a minute of cable news any longer. CNN was the prime driver of my decision. Awful stuff. Between the advertisements, anyway.
 
BudmanTX said:
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From that article, Schumer is pointing out the weakness of Johnson's and the House MAGA's position:

But the New York Democrat added: “I think if the Senate gets something done in a bipartisan way, it will put enormous pressure on the House to get something done as well and not just to let these hard-right people get up and say, the 30 of them, to dictate how the whole country should work. Because what they believe is clearly in the minority of the Republican Party and our country.

There are 220 Republican Reps in the House and about 200 of that group's careers are being held hostage by about 30 radicals and their patriarch, Defendant Trump. The Senate and the WH along with a fair number of GOP Senators are demonstrating the will to govern while the House has accomplished nothing and seem to be willing to stand on that strategy through the election season.

None of this will affect how people vote for Prez in the fall. For Trump, this is his last hurrah because the border was the wedge issue he used 8 years ago but at that time he was running against VP Clinton, not a sitting president overseeing a country with low unemployment, low inflation and a healthy economy.

Personally, I'm disappointed and a bit depressed over the prospect of the damage the do-nothing House Republicans will do this year but I think the damage they do will also be to themselves when it shows up in the polls against them in the fall. Their last shot seems to be missing the target. Their shot will miss Biden and hit Ukraine. And cause a lot of collateral damage. Putin is the only winner there. Next year will be the first year without MAGA holding national power, so there is that. Once again, Democrats will be cleaning up after a Republican failure followed by a temper tantrum.
 
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