Humple

Well-Known Member
Hmm! For me that sounds like your VPD to too high because of a too low humidity. As you say, 600μMol/s/m² is already a lot(600w HPS level) and air tends to dry out faster because we grow also with higher ambient temps. I'm forced to hang the sensor directly between the tops to get true readings. The thermometer on the wall shows usually 5-10% higher RH in my cab.
Increase RH while lights on by 5-10% and see what happens.
Even in the last few weeks you can hold 60% over the day without getting bud rot. I've often seen yellowing/bleaching on the upper leaves but most of the time it's no bleaching. It's because of a too high vapor pressure inside the leaves. Plants transpire more and take up more nutes and water(especially calcium), you get an imbalance and you are forced to either lower the nutrient strength according to your VPD(20% to high VPD = 20% less nutes) or you increase relative humidity to get the VPD back in a healthy range.

Below is the VPD chart I'm using currently...

View attachment 4268624
^^This, this, this, and this, 1000x. VPD is the most critical factor in my garden. When it's in check, the plants are happy. When it's off, everything goes to shit. That said, I do believe that a less-than-ideal VPD can be somewhat mitigated if everything else is on point, but nothing makes my girls respond faster or better than proper climate.
 

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
I was always an avid HPS guy. I was getting 3 units per 1kw HPS single ended when I stopped growing, using soil and co2. I've seen these crazy claims to LEDs getting 2 to 2.4 grams per watt. I've done a lot of research and see that it is indeed possible. I was going to run between 3000 to 3300 watts for flower and half that for a veg room. I am going to use 4000k Timber grow lights for vegging. The real debate is going 3000 watts(roughly) of the 1750k vero cob or 5 of the new Fluence bio spydr 2i. I understand the substantial money difference. I'm less concerned with the cost I'm more concerned with results. Overall quality, high thc and yield. I'll be doing coco and either flora flex or rx green technologies or vegametrix. I hope to push the bounds of watts per sq ft or watts per gram. I think I can do 11 to 17 units (lbs) depending on strain.

Either the new fluence spydr bio L1 or the latest Amare bar8, mate.

Both reach 2,7μMol/J and beat all lights available on the list easily but the Amare has 25% more watts compared to the fluence bio. Fluence is good for 4x 4'(regular/fem) or 5x 5' area (with automatics) and the Amara is good for 5x 5'(reg.) or 6x 6'(with automatics).

There is a third option, DIY! You could build your own growlight using Samsungs high efficiency strips. Q and H-influx series use LM301b like HLG on their QB's and when you drive them with half nominal current they should also reach 2,7μMol/J..
 
Either the new fluence spydr bio L1 or the latest Amare bar8, mate.

Both reach 2,7μMol/J and beat all lights available on the list easily but the Amare has 25% more watts compared to the fluence bio. Fluence is good for 4x 4'(regular/fem) or 5x 5' area (with automatics) and the Amara is good for 5x 5'(reg.) or 6x 6'(with automatics).

There is a third option, DIY! You could build your own growlight using Samsungs high efficiency strips. Q and H-influx series use LM301b like HLG on their QB's and when you drive them with half nominal current they should also reach 2,7μMol/J..

I'm not a diy kinda guy.
Ill tell ya what, I run Luminus cobs, and they are great, and they are also powerfull, to the point even 600 PAR is pushing the leafs hard. They dont like it. 450-500 PAR seems to be the sweet spot with them. Seen nice nugs with just 200 par, and the further away, the more tric production. Ive noticed the lowers are like sugar coated. final 2 weeks, reducing to 200 watts (4000k) in a 3x3, from 300 mixed 4000k-3500k

Do you use Co2 I'm an avid believer it helps maximize your crop.
 

InTheValley

Well-Known Member
I'm not a diy kinda guy.



Do you use Co2 I'm an avid believer it helps maximize your crop.
just ambiante, My office that im in most of the daytime, contains the grow area, so it gets human CO2 during entire lights on cycle. a CO2 meter is on my list for next round of purchases just to find out the true stats on the CO2. I do know this strain, ( Sequoia Shipwreck ) is definitely a Mag whore, because early on, the steams turned purple right off the bat. dosed with epsom, ( 2g pergallon ) for a week, and got her back on track, and was all good going into flower. This is 44 days from flip, on a 8-9 week flower, but buds finish super fast under these lights. Ive started flush already, 3 days ago. Cocoloco, 2 gallon superroots pot, MegaCrop Nutes, Megacrop Cal-mag/MegaCrop PKBoost, and Recharge only used. Pics do no justice,
shipwreck-day44-mon6.png
shipwreck-day44-mon5.png shipwreck-day44-mon7.png
 

InTheValley

Well-Known Member
Probably over watered also. Plus im using Tap water, got tired of the walmart water runs. and another reason Im not a huge fan of scrog, because you cant really lift the pots for dryness. After week 6, I like to take the scrog off, then i can tilt the pot, lift it for dryness to finish them up. Getting RO system soon. Going to be growing some Cherry Wine CBD.

If I had to make an educated guess from other past harvests with this rig, the density, Im almost sure I'll hit 1:1 GPW. They are only getting 180 watts now thru chop. should be around 275Gs.
 

sethimus

Well-Known Member
Hey @pokerpro451 heres a graphic explaining the different costs of some of the main led units out there. including the spydr.

Id recommend a BCBlondes 680 watt unit for every 4x4 or 5x5 you plan to cover. Im an EX avid hps guy as well. Ive been building leds now for 5 years, and there is no going back. They are awesome. That being said, 99% of the led market is not as good as a Gavita DE hps. Choose wisely.

Thanks

View attachment 4266263
what's an "umol"? i only know µmol
 

BCBLondesLEDGrowLights

Well-Known Member
Not for nuthin bud, But That's What They All Said.
Saying that to someone who knows better like me is like someone telling you different K-Temps serve no purpose. Or maybe you think that with your 35k?
They were all afraid to increase production cost & used the "Gimical" excuse as well.
Results don't lie & customers want it.
Science backs it, What else is there?
Dont get me wrong, I like BLONDES & have always suggested to take a look if someone was interested in a cob light.
I understand it makes a difference, but its a tiny difference. its just not what we are about right now. Guys who run hps and want to switch to led aren't very concerned with "extra red". I always appreciate your input bro.
 

BCBLondesLEDGrowLights

Well-Known Member
Not for nuthin bud, But That's What They All Said.
Saying that to someone who knows better like me is like someone telling you different K-Temps serve no purpose. Or maybe you think that with your 35k?
They were all afraid to increase production cost & used the "Gimical" excuse as well.
Results don't lie & customers want it.
Science backs it, What else is there?
Dont get me wrong, I like BLONDES & have always suggested to take a look if someone was interested in a cob light.
game changers are 3000k.
 

hybridway2

Amare Shill
just ambiante, My office that im in most of the daytime, contains the grow area, so it gets human CO2 during entire lights on cycle. a CO2 meter is on my list for next round of purchases just to find out the true stats on the CO2. I do know this strain, ( Sequoia Shipwreck ) is definitely a Mag whore, because early on, the steams turned purple right off the bat. dosed with epsom, ( 2g pergallon ) for a week, and got her back on track, and was all good going into flower. This is 44 days from flip, on a 8-9 week flower, but buds finish super fast under these lights. Ive started flush already, 3 days ago. Cocoloco, 2 gallon superroots pot, MegaCrop Nutes, Megacrop Cal-mag/MegaCrop PKBoost, and Recharge only used. Pics do no justice,
View attachment 4268922
View attachment 4268923 View attachment 4268924
Does MegaCrop offer based fir Hydro, Coco & Soil? My mistake using Coco-Loco was mixing it with Coco & using Coco Base nutes. Needed to use soil base nutes even diluted 60% w/ Coco.
Worked well the first yr @ a rate of about 30% with a nute that's base was made for any growing type media.
Originally began adding Coco-Loco to keep the girls darker green as they tend to get a lighter color In Coco & to reduce nutrient use in veg. After doing a side by side (yrs ago), I noticed it kept them nice n green all the way through flower too while the other half in Coco only was a much lighter green.
Ran with this method once switching to led hoping it would combat the issues I tend to have under wh/ only led. Problem was I upped it to 50/50 in the media & switched nute lines, using a Coco base nute program. Needless to say, it all went to shit.
Best advice I ever got about growing when I first started was from a guy whom I wanted to bash his face every time he talked. He said, "If you found something that works well for you stick with it. Dont try to experiment or make changes. Like if it ain't broke dont fix it. He told me he lost hundreds of thousands one yr playing around. I just couldn't Fathom it till it happened to me. SMH.
Anyways, I have 4 nice girls going under the 360 Elites. No yellowing or anything common with wh/ led growing fir me.
The rest of the room is a nother story.
So, in attempt to correct the rest of the room I used some ReCharge. Because the plants under the Elites were already nice & green (darker then the rest) I tried the ReCharge on one of them to see wazuppy. Nothing bad happened but that plant did begin to lighten up some in comparison to the other 3. With that said, i wont be using ReCharge to correct the media with hopes of the leaves darkening up.
Also, im doing this today & that's get the veg Potts off the cold cement floor. That cold floor will slow down drinking & cause purpling stems.
I have a theory that if in veg you expose the plants to "Full Spectrum" (MH, CMH, or LEDs with Floros like PowerVeg) & white higher intesity led occasionally that come flower time the plants will not have such a Mag intake problem or whatever this issue is. Toughen up & thicken the leaves first, then flower.
I'll be trying that myself. Now just to buy a new Daylight Blue bulb. Mine from "15" probably has a compromised spectrum .
 

hybridway2

Amare Shill
If there was a obvious "best" led/fixture for yield=====we would ALL be using it by now.
IDK, I feel the majority here would be trying to build it or replicate it.

I'm not a diy kinda guy.
Do you use Co2 I'm an avid believer it helps maximize your crop.
Yes, I use Co2. If you honestly want to know which led sustem will allow you the highest G/sq' & G/W, I'll tell you.
It's one I used fir about 2 yrs. It hasn't gained a ton of popularity from home growers or smaller grows but has blown up in Cali amongst commercial growers.
It's Called the "SunCloak".
If you dont have a plant count & want to bang out mad #'s, this is the system...
It's a vertical growing system that I helped refine the design of when it first came out. Now you can buy models specifically designed for Cannabis Crops.
I own about 25 linear feet of it spaced 16" on center as well as overhead Horizon units that go between each bay.
Because my plant count has reduced by 1/2, I can no longer use it for my intended weight.
I have pulled 2#'s+ off 600w in a 30"x4' area and can do better. Unlike so many around here, that's only including good BagMeat.
I have a few SunCloak threads here if you ever wanna check it out.
As far as overhead growing though, it's the Bar-8 my man. Been growing under almost that same spectrum fir a few yrs now, it's no secret they pray hard & love the Equetorial Spectrum. Amare includes a nm that other companies do not. The 470 nm fills the gap that normal white spectrum is deficient in. Therefore closer replicating the sun & activating the plants full morphological expressions.
 

hybridway2

Amare Shill
I understand it makes a difference, but its a tiny difference. its just not what we are about right now. Guys who run hps and want to switch to led aren't very concerned with "extra red". I always appreciate your input bro.
Thnx fir handling that proffessionally.
Seeing how Canada is now legal, you are experiencing what PLC, Johnson & Timber went through a few yrs ago is my guess. Poeple are setting up shop more in Canada now & beginning to grow more.
At first they want raw oooooomoles, then they realize there's more to it & led offers just that. Allowing one to target chlorophyll peaks while providing double the output of a SE HPS. More color & Terps are just what's on the outside.
To each his own though. BC Blondes is still awesome. Just slacking! Lol!
 

Old Thcool

Well-Known Member
For what it’s worth, I am using Fluence Spydr2X fixture for veg only and for over wintering heirloom veggie cuttings. I am super impressed with the way plants respond to the light. I have a 1 month old tomato that is showing fruit already from seed! And all plants are compact and show no stretch. The light is dimmable to a very comfy level to be around visually. The fixture is well built, however the hanging wires are too long and rob ceiling height so I swapped them out for allround. If I were to flower with this light I most certainly would opt for the next size up which when I bought mine was the Spydr X pro full spectrum.
All that being said, after reading some of you guys comments on constructing a light, it would seem very doable and fun to save some cash and build your own. Many of you believe it’s possible to build an even better lamp for the money than the Fluence? Would be fun to try.
 

InTheValley

Well-Known Member
Guys I've learned a lot from you tech guys.

To In the valley you say your cutting back light the last 2 weeks is this to increase crystal and Terps?

My cob grows haven't been the best tasting and I'm thinking I'm too close. Hoping the light mover helps.


https://www.rollitup.org/t/4x4-organic-grow-with-pictures-of-buds.982849/#post-14700917
in the thinking light and heat destroys trics, I like to aim for 300PAR last 2 weeks, 4000K thru most of the day. 3500K early and later in the day cycle, higher blue spectrum increases tric.
 

InTheValley

Well-Known Member
Does MegaCrop offer based fir Hydro, Coco & Soil? My mistake using Coco-Loco was mixing it with Coco & using Coco Base nutes. Needed to use soil base nutes even diluted 60% w/ Coco.
Worked well the first yr @ a rate of about 30% with a nute that's base was made for any growing type media.
Originally began adding Coco-Loco to keep the girls darker green as they tend to get a lighter color In Coco & to reduce nutrient use in veg. After doing a side by side (yrs ago), I noticed it kept them nice n green all the way through flower too while the other half in Coco only was a much lighter green.
Ran with this method once switching to led hoping it would combat the issues I tend to have under wh/ only led. Problem was I upped it to 50/50 in the media & switched nute lines, using a Coco base nute program. Needless to say, it all went to shit.
Best advice I ever got about growing when I first started was from a guy whom I wanted to bash his face every time he talked. He said, "If you found something that works well for you stick with it. Dont try to experiment or make changes. Like if it ain't broke dont fix it. He told me he lost hundreds of thousands one yr playing around. I just couldn't Fathom it till it happened to me. SMH.
Anyways, I have 4 nice girls going under the 360 Elites. No yellowing or anything common with wh/ led growing fir me.
The rest of the room is a nother story.
So, in attempt to correct the rest of the room I used some ReCharge. Because the plants under the Elites were already nice & green (darker then the rest) I tried the ReCharge on one of them to see wazuppy. Nothing bad happened but that plant did begin to lighten up some in comparison to the other 3. With that said, i wont be using ReCharge to correct the media with hopes of the leaves darkening up.
Also, im doing this today & that's get the veg Potts off the cold cement floor. That cold floor will slow down drinking & cause purpling stems.
I have a theory that if in veg you expose the plants to "Full Spectrum" (MH, CMH, or LEDs with Floros like PowerVeg) & white higher intesity led occasionally that come flower time the plants will not have such a Mag intake problem or whatever this issue is. Toughen up & thicken the leaves first, then flower.
I'll be trying that myself. Now just to buy a new Daylight Blue bulb. Mine from "15" probably has a compromised spectrum .
MegaCrop is a "use for all" systems and mediums. They just came out with a new formula that has added MAG, and said nothing needs added now, even if u use LEDs, so it might be the first LED tuned Nute line, IDK, lol..

recharge is best used once a week, with just recharge and RO water, like a treat to the plant. like a root dunk. Its even better if you can literally drown the entire root system for 10-15 seconds at once, to get a nice coating on the entire root system with the recharge. Thats straight from the creator, Scotty Real.

Cocoloco has some additives as far as nutes, but it seems to strip out pretty quick. Im going to start to reuse the cocoloco, so its more a nice, smooth medium, like coco, but with some substance to hold water a bit longer then just coco.

I love cocoloco.
 
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