bernie sanders: regressive
- Thread starter UncleBuck
- Start date
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Gonna drop this article in two Bernie threads, pro and con;
'Bernie Sanders is an imperialist pig';
https://www.blackagendareport.com/bernie_sanders_imperial_pig
'Bernie Sanders is an imperialist pig';
https://www.blackagendareport.com/bernie_sanders_imperial_pig
Xcoregamerskillz
Well-Known Member
Interesting read.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I happen to agree with your assessment of the Democratic Party, with one addition; neither party needs the average citizen anymore. Win or lose, as long as they keep getting donor money they'll keep their jobs- so they don't give a fuck if they're in office or not. We can thank Citizens United for that.
And @UncleBuck's attitude is exactly the problem. He won't engage in real debate, because his arguments are weak sauce and he knows it. Sooooooo on with the personal attacks! Sadly, his attitude reflects that of the rest of the establishment Democratic Party.
It's time to start a truly Progressive Movement to the left of the current Democrats' position. It would reflect the interests and needs of the majority of Americans. The challenge is to convince those middle Americans of that fact.
I'm no longer confident that Bernie Sanders is the appropriate standard bearer, even considering his popularity.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
There are less than four years left. Time to get going on that third party slogan. I think that "we don't suck as much at the other guy, so vote for us" is taken by the two main parties, so there is plenty of room for a new one.
No sign of Bernie taking up the mantle of third party leader. The way is open for a challenger. It's getting past time. If the way is sooooo clear, why hasn't somebody stepped up?
Xcoregamerskillz
Well-Known Member
I would recommend researching the progressive independent party if you're looking for a something new.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I thought that was a pretty poor article to be honest. What made you change your opinion of Sanders?
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
New parties take time to get organized. I hope it doesn't take too long.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Nothing. I'm leaving the door open for the best candidate for the job. If that's Bernie, fine. If there's someone who might be better then they need serious consideration. This is way too important to be entrusted to just one man.
I'm not even sure it's still possible in this country. We might be too far gone down the road to a de facto aristocracy to be able to return the country to being of, by and for the people as opposed to corporate power. I fervently hope I'm wrong and will work to effect change but the real possibility remains that the elites will successfully stymie any attempt to take power away from them.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
The Democratic party is the better choice than twenty years of GOP dominance. If you think I'm wrong then it's about time to get that movement started.
I can't find much out there on Democratic Party corruption at the federal level. Over the past ten years, that is.
Would you do me a favor and name those corrupt Democratic Party elites you keep talking about? If you can't then I'll take a list of Senators who voted against Sander's amendment to repeal the Citizens United ruling. Or other fake news.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I have a bit of an issue with his age even though based on the evidence I've seen, he seems to be in top condition when it comes to health. By 2020, he'd be pushing 80 years old, from what I understand, age progression multiplies as you get older, so who really knows how long his mental faculties could hold up under such a requirement as president of the United States.. Although his age concerns me to an extent, I am 100% onboard with his overall message, political philosophy, and eventual goals for the Democratic Party to work towards. Things like universal healthcare and college. This doesn't require Bernie Sanders, just a strong base that support the policy positions he has so far championed. Sanders has built a base of politically active millennials willing to go out and spend their own spare time educating people and getting them politically active. The recent election in the UK shows exactly how an election can be affected when the youth come out to vote.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I agree, but that's not good enough to win elections, obviously
Having said that, what better political strategy can you offer the American people, instead of "Hey, at least we're not as bad as Trump! Am I right?!"
What policy positions can you offer actual progressives that will entice them to come to the polls on election day to vote for your corporate pick?
That's because you don't understand how, or choose not to acknowledge when, corruption happens under Democratic control. Or, most likely, both.
Joe Manchin
Claire McCaskill
Dianne Feinstein
Chuck Schumer
Nanci Pelosi
Hillary Clinton
Barack Obama
Neera Tanden
John Podesta
Debbie Wasserman Schultz
Donna Brazile
Tom Perez
Robby Mook
Tim Kaine
Howard Dean
Chris Dodd
Barney Frank
Off the top of my head.. You want some more?
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
This is the issue that needs to be addressed;
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-16/the-u-s-is-where-the-rich-are-the-richest
And what can be done, but isn't;
https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/jun/14/tax-evaders-exposed-why-super-rich-are-even-richer-than-we-thought
Last edited:
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Can you give me one or two citations that tell us exactly what act of corruption they comitted? Not your worthless opinion but facts about a crime or unseemly act. Facts please.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I'd vote for him again. I'd have to trust that his choice in vice president is a good one.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
If the third party split does occur, I hope I'm wrong that it will take several election cycles before the party can contend for control of Congress and the white house. I think you've bought into right wing propaganda that the two parties are the same. It's understandable. Right wing media has been filling the air waves for thirty years with support from the 1%.
As far as what policy positions, where have you been? The Democratic party supports universal healthcare, repeal of Citizen's United, women's rights, everybody's equal rights for that matter, increasing taxes on the wealthy to pay for expanded medical access, protection of the environment, actions to reduce carbon emissions. Most of the same issues Bernie campaigned for.
The idea that the Democrats are losing is not wrong. It's not right either. Supporting evidence for both arguments can be had.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Could you please clarify that? I'm not entirely sure what you mean
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Crimes? Or games of policy?
Nancy Pelosi is on record as 'being for universal healthcare, but it's unrealistic' so she won't bring it up and best the Republicans over the head with it.
The ongoing obsession with Russia to the exclusion of dozens of issues closer to home that would damage Republican credibility- starting with the Flint water crisis.
The Democratic Party simply doesn't behave aggressively or consult in opposition to the right wing and the pattern over time is clear enough that I'm convinced it's an intentional smokescreen for those who buy influence on both sides of the aisle to get their policies enacted.
We've done plenty of manufacturing consent for wars in this country, how is it a stretch to think that they would be manufacturing domestic policy in the same way?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
You aren't wrong and you aren't right to say that Democrats are losing in Washington.
Facts supporting your assertion that Democrats can't win are obvious -- Republicans control all three branches of government.and a majority of state houses as well.
Facts against the assertion that Democrats can't win are: More people voted for Democrat Hillary than Republican Trump and Democrats gained seats not only in Congress but also across the country in 2016. Also, voters are just now getting a chance to see how badly Republicans govern and opinion polls as well as recent special elections show changes in levels of support for Democrats.
As far as your "Democratic Party not good enough" BS, it is true that Republican policies aren't going to affect a white man very much. So you don't really care if, say, 11 million families are terrorized by ICE. You aren't accepting Medicare or Medicaid and so aren't affected there either. Not right now, at least. So, yeah, you can be complacent about the Republican policies.. Your right to vote isn't jeopardized and so you don't care if Republican stay in power for five or ten more years.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
You shot several bolts into the air and I'll just reply to one right now.
Republicans control congress, I agree with Pelosi that passing universal healthcare bills is unrealistic right now. How can you say it's realistic right now? The fight right now is to prevent Republicans from stripping away health care access to tens of millions of people. The Medicare and Medicaid cuts they target will literally kill millions of elderly.
You two white boys are sure comfortable with Republican administrations.